09-05-2005 11:09									#91
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

How about a straberry mauling a raccoon?

	09-05-2005 11:11									#92
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noooooooooo

	09-05-2005 11:13									#93
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun damn it -- you ruined my naive hope that he had changed

It was rather naive of you, wasn't it?

	09-05-2005 11:14									#94
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@ che

	09-05-2005 11:22									#95
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there . . . . .



I got me a new avatar

	09-05-2005 11:25									#96
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quote: damn it -- you ruined my naive hope that he had changed

I really did send a PM to asher asking him to help me with my equipment because I recognised his expertise.

But he helped me get my computer working properly again.

	09-05-2005 11:26									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi But he helped me get my computer working properly again.

and I ask Asher . . . . . .



WHY??

	09-05-2005 11:27									#98
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Oh no, the Squarebob, the antichrist!

	09-05-2005 11:32									#99
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quote: some people who professed to have sympathized with Martin Luther King Jr. wrote letters to him while he was in prison, asking him what the rush was as well.

Yes, that is very true. However, Dr. King also abided by the regulations of the law, because he respected the law. That's why he went to jail, and served his full term, because even if you can justify changing an unjust law, that does not justify evading the constraints of the law, while the law is there.

quote: But I did not know that there was a timetable that all civil rights movements had to abide by. What volume, chapter, section, and paragraph is this rule located in?

What civil rights are being denied to gay people? They can vote, they are not lynched. Society does not have laws against them that block them from being represented, nor do they fear for their lives.

The trouble is that some people rejected Dr. King's ways as being too slow, among them being Malcolm X. I fear you spur similar arguments through your haste without adequate justification for that haste.

	09-05-2005 11:33									#100
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun there . . . . . I got me a new avatar

It's so you.

	09-05-2005 11:35									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Yes, that is very true. However, Dr. King also abided by the regulations of the law, because he respected the law. That's why he went to jail, and served his full term, because even if you can justify changing an unjust law, that does not justify evading the constraints of the law, while the law is there. What civil rights are being denied to gay people? They can vote, they are not lynched. Society does not have laws against them that block them from being represented, nor do they fear for their lives.

Matthew Shepherd never had to fear for his life?

	09-05-2005 11:36									#102
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara It's so you.

I don't know if this is an insult, or a compliment.

	09-05-2005 11:36									#103
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You are sponge worthy.

	09-05-2005 11:39									#104
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quote: Matthew Shepherd never had to fear for his life

I doubt he did, until after the surprise assualt. Did he say earlier that he lived his life in fear of being assaulted?

Are the current laws against assault inadequately prosecuted?

	09-05-2005 11:39									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi And are the current laws against assault inadequately prosecuted?

Against gays, yes.

	09-05-2005 11:41									#106
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Ok Benny, there are some rights that we do have -- such as the right to vote.




However, we are denied equal employment protection except in cases where forward-thinking companies take their own initiative.

We are also denied the same citizenship privileges when it comes to legal recognition of our life-long, monogamously, commited relationships.

We are also denied equal protection in having custody over our own children -- whether biological, or adopted.

	09-05-2005 11:45									#107
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quote: Against gays, yes.

And the evidence for that is...?

	09-05-2005 11:49									#108
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here are some statistics on hate crimes against gays/lesbians

http://www.wildelife.com/worth/stats/stats4.html

	09-05-2005 11:52									#109
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here is an interesting article . . . . .

Violence Against Gays

	09-05-2005 11:52									#110
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quote: So in the meantime, I'm for effective arguments that can bring change sooner than when we have proven how sexual orientation develops.

Yeah I like that one about why the hell should these people care what two consenting adults get up.



I'd just like to plug NZ a bit and say Civil Unions are allowed here now

	09-05-2005 11:54									#111
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quote: However, we are denied equal employment protection except in cases where forward-thinking companies take their own initiative.

Fair enough. Now why is this so important that it has to be done now? Before we understand a term such as 'orientation'?

quote: We are also denied the same citizenship privileges when it comes to legal recognition of our life-long, monogamously, commited relationships.

Why are such relationships special only if they are lifelong and monogamous? Is there a standard that gays use to decide whether their relationship is lifelong and monogamous?

quote: We are also denied equal protection in having custody over our own children -- whether biological, or adopted.

That's a curious group of terms. 'Equal protection?' 'Having custody'? 'over our own children'?

There are very good reasons why people are not given custody over children, that have nothing to do with equality.

Secondly, you do not own children. They are not your property.

Thirdly, the only concern in custody should be the best interests of the child, and not nebulous terms such as 'equality'.

	09-05-2005 11:56									#112
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quote: Secondly, you do not own children. They are not your property.

Dude worst comeback ever. Like totally is. You know what he meant, or should know what he meant.

	09-05-2005 11:58									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Fair enough. Now why is this so important that it has to be done now? Before we understand a term such as 'orientation'? Why are such relationships special only if they are lifelong and monogamous? Is there a standard that gays use to decide whether their relationship is lifelong and monogamous? That's a curious group of terms. 'Equal protection?' 'Having custody'? 'over our own children'? There are very good reasons why people are not given custody over children, that have nothing to do with equality. Secondly, you do not own children. They are not your property. Thirdly, the only concern in custody should be the best interests of the child, and not nebulous terms such as 'equality'.

First, I suggest you check out the info I have kindly provided for you in regards to justice and violence against gays.


Second, I do not advocate using children as pawns. It is not unusual that the best interest of the child is to remain with a gay parent/gay parents.

Third, the longer we wait for equal employment protection, the longer we suffer.

Fourth, a large number of gays use the same standards when it comes to relationships that heterosexuals use.

	09-05-2005 11:59									#114
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quote: 1043 vicious aggravated assaults against people because of sexual orientation were reported to police. 1077 offenders were known to police. 3/4 of the victims were gay men and 83% of the offenders were anti-male-homosexual.

Okay, how does one distinguish between an assault, and an assault done 'because of orientation?'

Finally, what makes a person 'anti-male-homosexual?'

	09-05-2005 12:01									#115
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Because like most guys they don't really think that lesbianism is that wrong whereas two guys is just icky hence anti-male-homosexual.

	09-05-2005 12:02									#116
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quote: Dude worst comeback ever. Like totally is. You know what he meant, or should know what he meant.

Should I assume rather than asking?

	09-05-2005 12:03									#117
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Well, it's a little after 2:00 AM -- I'm going to get some sleep.

	09-05-2005 12:04									#118
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Well if its blindingly obvious why not.

Though while I have your attention, and seen as you're the resident religious expert, well at least imho,

Why do religious people care so much what two consenting adults of the same gender get up to in the privacy of their on place? Besides the fact that its a sin as stated in the bible, I mean really, why care?

	09-05-2005 12:08									#119
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quote: First, I suggest you check out the info I have kindly provided for you in regards to justice and violence against gays.

Okay, I have plenty of questions as to what the statistics mean, and the definitions that they use.

quote: Second, I do not advocate using children as pawns. It is not unusual that the best interest of the child is to remain with a gay parent/gay parents.

Ok, but then why do you feel that they are not equitably treated? Secondly, why do you feel that a family with only one gender can be superior to another family with both?

quote: Third, the longer we wait for equal employment protection, the longer we suffer.

How so? How will you suffer?

quote: Fourth, a large number of gays use the same standards when it comes to relationships that heterosexuals use.

Answer the question. What are those standards used to decide whether a relationship is lifelong and monogamous? Why does it matter that a relationship must be both in order to be recognised?

	09-05-2005 12:14									#120
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quote: Well if its blindingly obvious why not.

That's the most important thing, to look at what is 'blindingly obvious' and ask why do we believe that.

quote: Though while I have your attention, and seen as you're the resident religious expert, well at least imho,

Thanks for the compliment, but I've got lots to learn.

quote: Why do religious people care so much what two consenting adults of the same gender get up to in the privacy of their on place? Besides the fact that its a sin as stated in the bible, I mean really, why care?

You answer your own question.