10-05-2005 06:22									#1
	What do you feel about cIV? Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I remember, like... 3 years ago, when i discovered God knows how, that a new version of CIV was in the works, i was really exited. Nice graphics, culture but after being chatting and posting in these very forums for moths, the result was that CIV III was not so good as CIV II and i was very dissapointed.
An AI that just wanted to conquer at all costs was my first concern, as im the type of guy who likes to play a pacific game and only fight wars to bring balance to the force (as i used to do in CIV II), nothing more, i dont play for the score.

I dont remember what other cool things i was having in my head at that momet that made me though "yay! this game will rock!" but what i do remember is that after a month playing CIV, i just turned and looked somewhere for more games (that made me know Paradox and their EU2 and Crusader Kings and Victoria), wasnt thrilled anymore by the so called "CIV franchise" (dont know why is so trendy to speak about a "franchise" rather than "game", years ago that word was never used, perhaps CIV is just becoming another massive product, not a game for its hardcore fans?)

I remember Sid saying "aye, CIV III will have things for the n00bs and for the 31373" (not textual, but kinda ) As CIV fan since 93, when the guy who sold me the game said "i dont really understand this game" and i barely could understand english, nevertheless got hooked, i said "this games aint for experienced players! is for today's warmongers that have no patience!"

I never bought the expantion, in fact, i never realized that was an expantion called Conquests just because i had not visitted CIV sites for years until now. Im gonna get Conquest cos is cheap and give it a try, people say that enhances the game a lot. Lets see.

But about cIV, experience say to me not being so exited. There are super neat features like 3d word, able to build things over resources, experienced units (a 41 level veteran spearman will be more valuable than a n00b mosqueter), religion, the promised improved AI (well, play to believe) the Python thingie (happens that i know something about Python) more units, more civs, more techs, Wondermovies! and lots of stuff. Is hard not being thrilled with these features, but, again, experience says me to be precautions.

What does experience or your heart tell to you?

	10-05-2005 07:21									#2
	Suffering from ads?

Ha, you thought Civ II was a disappointment? I got caught up in the hype for Call to Power. That was sad.

I'm cautiously optimistic about Civ IV. It could suck, but it could be great. The change of publisher actually makes me hopeful.

	10-05-2005 07:46									#3
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What do I feel about Civ IV?




I feel warm and fuzzy inside.

	10-05-2005 11:13									#4
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun What do I feel about Civ IV? I feel warm and fuzzy inside.

I was going to say the samething, except warm and tingly inside.

	10-05-2005 15:07									#5
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From what I've read about CIV makes me optimistic, though I wouldn't be surpised if it turns out to be a great let-down that can't be saved by the modding community

	10-05-2005 15:31									#6
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I have high hopes!

Do you hear? High hopes!

	10-05-2005 16:21									#7
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I have heigh expectations!
I don't know how the religion thing will work though. If it's a good concept, I'm sure it'll improve the game!
I like those concepts that add more to the game and make it more broad. Like culture did. I hope they've expanded on culture though.

Sometimes when I'm reading all those previews and seeing those screenshots I feel like I can hardly wait.

I'm feeling exactly like when civ2 and civ3 were going to be released

	10-05-2005 16:30									#8
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I'm concerned that the game will be dumbed down due to the corporation's desire to expand market share, acceptance, and positively impact sales and revenue.

However, more people interested in buying into the "civ franchise" is a good thing in the long term.

I may have to learn Python if the game is lacking in the early release. Lastly, I hope they do a better job with quality. Civ3 had a ridiculous number of patches -- several of the patches were not "bug fixes" but rather substantial changes to gameplay elements (Forbidden Palace/corruption calculation for example)

	10-05-2005 16:46									#9
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(also an answer to Shogun Gunner)

I believe that Firaxis is playing well in the corporate game, understanding (and getting many to understand) that the point is not to create something for the sake of the creation, but so that it gets somewhere. There is a market for a broad-market Civ, and a bunch of other markets for smaller markets. Well, I wish the best runner (Firaxis) to get the greatest role, bringing the greatest result per manhour effort (or per pot of coffey). And so Civ can gets better, pushed by the best, on all levels. When I say all levels, I include smaller (and more serious-driven) markets: look at Age of Men.

It also dodges the problem of having always more details, instead of more comprehensive (such as some hardcore fans ask, as for MOO3). The fewest manhour lost in errors (with trial-errors), the best.

This way, Civ-type games ends up in the greatest number of hands, for the many to marvel at and the students of history to use in parallel to... Paradox and others.

Last edited by Trifna on 10-05-2005 at 16:57

	10-05-2005 17:24									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Civics
Religion
Health (to replace pollution/corruption? supposedly more 'fun')
XML/scripting
workers (i wanted public works more than any of the other features)

Overall, compared to civ3 i'm positive about it.

	10-05-2005 17:46									#11
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I am with Mr Lemmy here!

Combine the workers and settlers into one unit, like in days of yore!

Good to see caravans back, if this be true!

	10-05-2005 17:47									#12
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I'm very excited. I am so far positive that Firaxis has learned something, it seems so. Also, this time they hopefully won't meet the same problems as during the development of Civ3. Of course, I think that the higher expectations, the higher risk of being disappointed, but I think I managed well with that when Civ3 came. I had high hopes, but wasn't as disappointed as many else were. But the things we know so far promise well.

	10-05-2005 18:25									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by curtsibling Good to see caravans back, if this be true!

You are bound to get some responses for this comment!

Many people equate workers and caravans with micromanagement.

Me personally, I think both add character to the game.

	10-05-2005 18:31									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I am from the CIV2 way of things, caravans give more control over trade...And are fun to escort, etc.

	10-05-2005 18:40									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Workers adds something to the game, while caravans only adds annoyance

	10-05-2005 18:52									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

IMHO, caravans only give unneccessary MM. Workers, I have no problems with them, but I kind of liked the way CTP2 did it too, although it needed some reworking.

	10-05-2005 19:37									#17
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I am excited and carefully optimistic. Seems that some things, like Workers, are still in, but overall, the known feautures of Civ4 are great. The things I'm cautious about are the 3D graphics and the promises of simplification. In other words, I hope Civ4 doesn't become a game oriented towards mainstream players.

	10-05-2005 19:48									#18
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Caravans give you a reason to explore and find large AI cities to exploit.

	10-05-2005 20:52									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Solver I am excited and carefully optimistic.

	10-05-2005 21:05									#20
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Im exited and precautious like most of you. So far, the NEW features are cool, the civs makes goverments more customizable and realistic. I would like to know if new civs could emerge from civil wars like in CIV II.

In fact, things that were cut off from CIV II are being added to the cIV, like Wondermovies and advisors. Just wonder if civil wars are back in...

	10-05-2005 21:27									#21
	Increase the size of your Attachments

That's a good point. Going back to Civ2 to reclaim some of the great ideas and implementations of these ideas is a smart move.

I also like the wondermovies. Advisors....well, I never turned them off, but it did get a bit repetitive. Did miss something along the way, are advisors definitely back in?

	10-05-2005 21:35									#22
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Kinda. Remember "if you play India in a warmonger way, Ghandi will be pissed off" (not textual, but sorta )

	10-05-2005 21:36									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Lemmy Overall, compared to civ3 i'm positive about it.

	11-05-2005 02:38									#24
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Civics? Pardon my ignorance by is civics and what about them?

Caravans: Remember, Galactic Civilization has somethign we could call "caravans" and it works very well without the annoyance (and they said they inspire themselves of some other games' innovations). Well implemented trade could be great if well done, so we'll see

	11-05-2005 02:56									#25
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I feel like drunken quartermaster , because I have drink some vodka tonight. I remember the old days when I was playing civ with amiga 500. If civ IV doesn´t fullfill my dreams, i will destroy firaxis and take 2. By the way i´m from Finland.

	11-05-2005 03:25									#26
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Aye! Destroy em'!

	11-05-2005 03:37									#27
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That must be settler rage

	11-05-2005 03:44									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I almost want to pull the trigger on the DL dance....

Okay, I believe you, Finns are evil.

	11-05-2005 04:43									#29
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Finn's are evil, but we all must have faith in the next incarnation, overwise, these forums will become an "I hate civIV", site.

Let's all be enthusiastic and not dwell on the fact that civIII wasn't very good in the beginning.

	11-05-2005 05:06									#30
	Remove this text

I think that they have seen the work that has gone into the many mods to improve both Civ 2 and 3.
A civlizaton game without many details to keep up with would become too easy. Might as well play RON
I dont think that they will try to dumb it down too much but maybe they will improve tutorials for beginners.