14-05-2005 22:59									#1
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Over the years I've heard quite afew idea's for innovative scenario's in small posts on threads or MSN conversations. Idea's that without a doubt would have made for great scenario's but never did for the designer never found the motivation or the encouragment to venture forward with his or her concept.

I believe this forum is in need of a thread specifically for just that, a thread where scenario concepts can be discussed exclusively along with the odd unit or city graphic. This thread as I see it would be for projects in the pre-development stages, where too little work has been done to justify opening up its own thread but discussion and input is never the less needed.

Here are two examples of the kinds of scenario's that could be discussed on this thread:

All the King's Men
----------------------

A scenario where Britain has won the American Revolutionary War but now is faced with fighting the Napoleonic wars in 1803. The war would include the regular cast of characters, Britain, France, Spain, Prussia, Austria, Russia and Sweden. What makes this game different is that it would include Britain's reclaimed colonies in America, French Louisiana and Spanish ruled Mexico in a Highway to Hell style map.

It will truly be a Great War before the real Great War!!

The Rivington Menace
---------------------------

A scenario based on the book "Guns of the South", where time travelling Afrikaners have supplied the South with a hundred thousand AK-47's, leading them to a victory in they're war with the Union. The Afrikaners however are outraged when presidential canidate Robert E. Lee proposes freeing the slaves of the Confederacy, for the Afrikaners had hoped to establish a white supremicist Confederacy.

Therefore, on the even of President Lee's inauguration, the Afrikaners of Rivington launch a deadly coup against they're former allies in hopes of seizing control of Richmond, and eventually the South itself. How will America react as it is waging a bloody land war in Canada with Britain? How will Britain react as its inflicting a crippling naval blockade of the American east coast as well as raiding her grandest ports?

Now neither of these scenario's have enough work done to warrant they're own threads, at least not yet. I would still be interested in hearing thoughts and or opinions on them, as well as thoughts and opinons on any number of other scenario's I've heard mentioned by the likes of Patrick, Tom, Steph, Harry, Eivind, Erika, Case and so on but never followed through on. So please, all are welcome to introduce idea's and concepts for projects on this thread.

	14-05-2005 23:57									#2
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I think these are good ideas, Chris, well worth considering. I especially like the first one. You'll have to work out a way for Napoleon to supply Louisiana though (and Haiti should figure into his empire, too, though maybe as more of a thorn in his side). And I guess Mexico would be his as well, as with his brother being its king, he ruled Spain in all but name. A global Napoleonic war could be really cool.

	15-05-2005 00:09									#3
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Good Idea Sarsstock.

---------------------------------

I've been batting around an idea for an empire building resource intensive scenario for awhile now but it never fully came through.

Basically it would revolve around quirks in the Civ engine such as:

1) Strategic Food Routes: See the explanation here: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=133487

2) Event created High Cost Units that can be disbanded for shields.

Think of this, there is a portion of the map that has been designated as being rich in ore. This is theoretical ore, not actual terrain resources or terrain tiles, just an area.

In this area there are immobile units that graphically look like ore veins. Using the ToT event engine I think it would be possible to allow any civ to destroy these units. Once these units are destroyed another unit replaces the "ore vein" unit on the same tile and belongs to the civ that destroyed the "ore vein" unit.

The new unit is immobile and graphically looks like the entrance to a mine shaft. Every few turns or so another kind of unit is created, belonging to the owner of the "mine shaft" unit.

This unit graphically looks like an ore cart and has a high build cost. The "ore cart" unit is mobile and can be moved to the players city to be disbanded for shields.

	15-05-2005 00:25									#4
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Here's another idea that would be good for Mulitplayer games.

Each Player Civ has their own techs and units exclusively. Some units such as low attack, low defense infantry are open to all to allow for defense and attack. Democracy is not a govt open for play.

One Civ has air units.
Another Civ has ground units.
Another Civ has naval units.
Another Civ has Diplomats.
Another Civ has Settlers.

Players can combine forces in a joint attack. Players can trade units. Players can sell their services for a price.

The whole idea is that you have to bargain with eachother to win the game or gang up on the others.

	15-05-2005 00:44									#5
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Yet another idea (sorry Chris).

The Scenario Concept: "Protect Baby"

Using the Strategic Food Routes:

At the start of a scenario there are a number of AI cities that already supply the maximum amount of food to your big cities. The Civ that owns these AI cities cannot build any units whatsoever. Your big cities produce very little food, but are surrounded by high-shield producing terrain.

Problem is that these AI cities are now running at a deficit. If you do not send food caravans from your small cities that have food to these AI cities the AI cities will disband, severing the food route to your big cities. The big cities will starve and you will not be able to resupply food to them because there's a span of impassable terrain between your little cities and your big cities.

The idea is to supply the AI cities with 3 food each while protecting them from being destroyed. There could be a number of things that could trigger a CHANGETERRAIN event that would destroy the AI cities, like if a unit is destroyed or a tech gained or if the AI cities were captured by an enemy civ.

In essence, you would have to protect this AI from harm. "Protect Baby"...

	15-05-2005 01:27									#6
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Good work, gentlemen!

Any of these would be just the ticket for a new civ concept!

	15-05-2005 03:27									#7
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No need to apologize Harry this is just what I intended this thread for!!

	15-05-2005 04:21									#8
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I'm considering creating a Battle of Blenheim (or Oudenarde, or Szentgothard, or . . .) scenario. In its particulars, it'll resemble Panzer Battles on the River Chir. It won't involve; production, tech, government, naval or air units, expansion, or exploration. It'll just be two armies situated on an historical battlefield, 25 game turns or less, and intended to be played as a DUEL between two actual human players (because we can count on the AI to do incredibly stupid things, can't we?).

Regardless of feedback, I may do it anyway, just to see how it works.

The trick will be the artillery. I'll probably handle it the same way as Panzer Battles; event-delivered ammo.

Anybody wanna fight?

	15-05-2005 04:40									#9
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Exile, that would be a great idea. I'm not usually a big fan of your scenarios, simply because they're too time consuming for a busy student like me to complete (and the design for the PBEM audience) but Panzer Battles on the River Chir was sweet!

I played it through in one evening. I won it. That didn't stop me from loading it up 2 nights later and having another go. And another. How many scenarios can you complete in 1-2 hours? Not many; it would be great to see more like it.

	15-05-2005 17:01									#10
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Chris, I especially like the first idea ... All the KingŽs Men. A sound plan

Maybe you could have the Yankees included as well - as allies of Napoléon who promised to cede Louisiana to pay them back - after England would have been defeated ...

Just some thoughts ...

	15-05-2005 17:48									#11
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OK, here's a scenario idea I've been tossing around for a while, although I'll doubt I'll ever attempt it because it would be so ambitious - The World of HP Lovecraft.

The World of Jules Verne was a very different scenario that was fun to play, and this was just with the basic events of MGE! With ToT, quest scenarios like this could be so much more (speaking of which, how's Jules Verne ToT coming along Sarsstock)?

The idea was as follows: it would begin in the dark times of the early 1920's. The enlightening spirit of science and discovery that characterized the World of Jules Verne is but a memory, buried in the trenches of Ypres, lost in the slaughter on the Somme. Technology, far from being our saviour, almost came to be our undoing.

In these dark, trying times, people struggle for answers to explain the nightmare they have just emerged from. Certain elements of society in every country start to look for answers in the past rather than the future. The numbers turning to the occult for guidance grows with each passing day.

Yet men, in their arrogance, continue to poke and pry in those dark places of the world. They hold the rising superstition of their fellows in abject contempt. They laugh and scorn, even as they draw near the peaks in the distance, as the beginnings of a primeval fear grip them. In the accursed mountains of the Antarctic, something old, terribly old, and evil, is stirring...

Humanity is about to have a rude awakening as we discover our true place in the grand cosmic scale of things.

-------------------------------

So what we have is a quest based scenario like Jules Verne, but with not as much as the map unexplored. Hopefully this would be offset by having the scenario on that gigamap of the world with the huge Antarctic. It would be a bit more dramatic though; you would be in a furious race against time to try and discover a way to defeat the Elder Ones before they rise from their slumber and destroy mankind.

As well as having some part of Earth to explore still; at various places in the world exist gateways, created by the Elder Ones to destinations unknown. One of these maps would be for subquests; imagine US Marines having to fight it out with those blasphemous fish-frogs in shadowed Innsmouth. What about going to the Empty Quarter of Arabia, and searching in the tunnels beneath the shifting sands for that Nameless City. Not to mention the famed expidition to the Mountains of Madness.

I don't know if any of you have ever played the great necromancer scenario for ToT by William Keenan, but I imagine the various civilizations in this scenario to face a similar dilemna to what he did in his: should we forsake this ancient knowledge, mindful of its source and the evil it could bring? Should we embrace it, fighting the invader (and our erstwhile geopolitical opponents too) with his own weapons, consequences be damned? Should we ally with these creatures and worship them as gods, and be thankful for whatever crumbs we are offered?

Imagine an armoured division coming face to face with a Shoggoth. I know who my money would be on.

The scenario would hopefully climax with you leading a group of suicide volunteers in primitive spacesuits through the gateway to Yuggoth (Pluto), where you would engage in a desperate struggle to destroy the Elder Ones in a pre-emptive strike.

Ia-R'lyehl Cihuiha flgagnl id Ia!

	15-05-2005 18:16									#12
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I thought the elder gods were the "good" guys.

The Great Old Ones were the bad guys.

I've got all those old Lovecraft collections. Have had for years. You can sure see where Stephen King stole all his stuff from.

	15-05-2005 18:23									#13
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I'm no authority I must say; I tend to get confused between the Deep Ones, the Great Old Ones, The Elder Ones and the Great Ones. I've been trying to read through most of his stuff on this website:

http://miskatonicuniversitypress.co...htm#hplnovellas

I still have some way to go.

Some of King's stories are straight out of Lovercraft, no doubt about it. Have you ever read the Jerusalem's Lot story in Night Shift? Pure Lovercraft.

If you're looking for a more modern take on the Cthulhu Mythos, I recommend the story 'A Colder War' by Charles Stross. It's an interesting idea by Stross, but it doesn't quite capture the same atmosphere that Lovecraft could evoke.

http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/colderwar.htm

	15-05-2005 20:07									#14
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I think Steph's idea on 'All the King's Men' is also a good one. The Yankees could be under Thomas Jefferson's leadership, as he would have escaped execution by the British and fled into exile in the wilderness to raise a new militia that would take advantage of Napoleon's support. Perhaps also add Techumseh (the historical leader, not the member of this forum) and his Indian forces as an ally of the Brits, like they were in the actual War of 1812.

	15-05-2005 20:28									#15
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Patrick thats a very good idea's indeed. I will have to look into what rank Techumseh held in Indian society in 1803 as this takes place nine years before the War of 1812, but still I think its an idea that would work quite well. I would also have to research just what French troop levels in Louisiana were in 1803. Perhaps I could imagine them to be a little stronger as Napoleon may have strengthened his garrisons in the New World.

Steph I also love your idea of having several groups of renegade revolutionaries plotting with Bonaparte to spread the revolution to the shores of America. Once again Patrick's suggestion of using Jefferson as the leader of the American revolutionaries would make a good touch of historical realism.

And thankyou Our_Man for asking, Jules Verne is comming along just fine and soon I will be reopening up a thread on Poly here to show the progress made. Also, I'm disapointed to hear you say Our_Man you doubt you'll ever get to work on that project, it sounds pretty interesting and worthy of some discussion at the least. I love the atmoshpere you described, how the enthusiasm and hopefullness of the World of Jules Verne was lost in the battlefields of the Great War, and how the technology man once praised as his savior is now seen as his great undoing.

Last edited by Sarsstock on 15-05-2005 at 20:36

	15-05-2005 20:41									#16
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I've had a few million ideas kicking around,
france vs luxembourg, and luxembourg wins, then conquers the earth

various ww2 scens that take place from 1950, 1968, 1985, 1996, ect,

ww2 with magic, zombies, dragons, wizards, and luxembourg ends up taking over the world,

another war between india and pakistan,

a post ww3 scen where you have to rebuild civilization, with luxembourg of course taking over the earth,

	15-05-2005 21:42									#17
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I'd like it better, if estonia would take over the world!


Hm, perhaps a cold war gone hot in europe.

	15-05-2005 22:16									#18
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Pssst! He's Tecumseh, I'm Techumseh.

	15-05-2005 22:18									#19
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Thanks Sarsstock. Who knows? When you release the World of Jules Verne I might find myself sufficiently motivated...

I was thinking of having the following Civs for the scenario:

USA
USSR
Third Reich (w/Italy)
British Empire
Japanese
Neutral States
Old Ones

I know that the Nazi's weren't in power in the 1920's, but if it's a scenario about the occult, you've just got to take a bit of historical inaccuracy to work these guys in. Himmler would wet himself to get hold of a copy of the Necronomicon.

Imagine the Wehrmacht backed up by legions of Shoggoth...

	15-05-2005 22:55									#20
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quote: [SIZE=1]Steph I also love your idea of having several groups of renegade revolutionaries plotting with Bonaparte to spread the revolution to the shores of America. Once again Patrick's suggestion of using Jefferson as the leader of the American revolutionaries would make a good touch of historical realism.

Chris, my good man, I tried to send you a PM over at CDG ... anyway. This forum is as good for this idea as the PMs over yonder

If the Britts won the American War of Independence then Napoleon would have tried to help the fled Revolutionaries ... I like that. Furthermore, maybe some French expedition to India should be possible - once Egypt would be secured

	16-05-2005 01:30									#21
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Yes Steph it would be nice to include India and a possible French expedition. It would be nice to boast that the Napoleonic War will be waged from the banks of the Ganges to the Rio Grande. I'll certainly consult you further Steph if needed, I think this might just make a good ToT project for when Verne is completed.

	16-05-2005 02:29									#22
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quote: Originally posted by our_man OK, here's a scenario idea I've been tossing around for a while, although I'll doubt I'll ever attempt it because it would be so ambitious - The World of HP Lovecraft.

Now that sound interesting!

I especially like the description of the context you gave! You should really do it!

quote: I don't know if any of you have ever played the great necromancer scenario for ToT by William Keenan,

No, but if you can direct me to that scen... What is its name, Necromancer?? And I guess it can be found on the Cradle of Civ site??

	16-05-2005 03:38									#23
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It was one of the vampire entries for SDC#3 I think. Sadly the Cradle of Civilization is still down, and I don't know where else it can be found...

	16-05-2005 04:26									#24
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Erika, Queen of Luxembuourg!

	17-05-2005 00:48									#25
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Does anybody know where I can find a copy of Gareth's Napoleonic War units? I think they would come in most handy if I am to make a go of this "All the Kings Men" scenario.

	17-05-2005 00:55									#26
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Well, IŽd say on my HD

Part 1

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	17-05-2005 00:56									#27
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Part 2

(There are by W.I.N.T.E.R., from his excellent "Great Napoleanic Battles" scenario)

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	17-05-2005 00:57									#28
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Part 3

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	17-05-2005 00:58									#29
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Part 4

... which are his ACW graphics - but with a little tweaking here and there theyŽd fit in too

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	17-05-2005 02:03									#30
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Thankyou my good Steph these will come in more than handy. Do you have any idea what American Revolutionaries would look like in the year 1803? I'd imagine they could be divided into two main categories of appearances. The first such category would be Revolutionaries who fled or were driven into French Louisiana. They I imagine would resemble French units more as Napoleon would be supplying them with arms and such from bases located inside the French wilderness. The second category would be a new generation of revolutionaries living under British rule in the 13 colonies.

Of course there would be a wide variety of units varying from profesional soliders to rural militia's on both sides of the American conflict. I'm sure I could fit all the units in thanks to the ToT pallet. Do you have any thoughts on hypothetical Franco/American units Steph? What about the type of Spanish units that would have been deployed in Mexico in 1803? What about the Indian units that would exist in 1803? With Britain's treaties involving the Indian Lands still in effect since the Revolution I imagine they could be a much stronger force in this conflict.

Steph, would you mind terribly if I used your map from Blood and Steel Juggernaught for this scenario? It would be perfect as it includes all of North and most of Central America along with India. However, it does include a large amount of the Pacific thats uneeded, especially the Hawaiian islands. Any thoughts to a map that might be more appropriate?