18-05-2005 03:17									#61
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I remember what was it, 2 years ago when a bunch of plo militants were wholed up in the church of the holy seplica.... one of christianitys most holy sites.

Do you remember that the priests who ran the church, later reported that some of the PLO thugs who were inside, used the pages of christian bibles as toilet paper and many valuable sacramental items went missing after?

Christian's didnt riot and the media ignored it.

Yey for religious equality.

	18-05-2005 03:30									#62
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun So because the Bible calls for slavery, suppression of women, and all the other bad stuff, Christianity in of itself is a causation for that is bad in this world too??

Xianity is more based on the New Testament (there's no Christ in OT! ) than the old. The NT is more about love charity and turning the other cheek. OT is a background to that. A weird background.

	18-05-2005 03:31									#63
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Actually, most of them haven't. If the majority really got riled and bent out of shape, we'd be in for a scheißsturm of truly amazing scale.

We got all the nukes. We'd just need to figure out some way to seize and protect the oil fields and port facilities.

	18-05-2005 03:33									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Vesayen Do you remember that the priests who ran the church, later reported that some of the PLO thugs who were inside, used the pages of christian bibles as toilet paper and many valuable sacramental items went missing after? Christian's didnt riot and the media ignored it. Yey for religious equality.

Maybe because other priests denied that these things happened.

It was alot more than 2 years ago.

	18-05-2005 09:22									#65
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Actually, most of them haven't. If the majority really got riled and bent out of shape, we'd be in for a scheißsturm of truly amazing scale.

yes, exactly

	18-05-2005 22:09									#66
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I'm with JT here, despite my lame attempts at a troll earlier. Islam is a far more dangerous religion, even if Xianity is more of threat at home.

I don't see how this can be the case.

	19-05-2005 00:48									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Same thing holds true for the Bible for many Christian fundies.

Which is why they insist on reading it in the original Greek/Aramaic/Hebrew...

	19-05-2005 06:25									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Which is why they insist on reading it in the original Greek/Aramaic/Hebrew...

KJV, Kuci, KJV.

	19-05-2005 06:27									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger I don't see how this can be the case.

Christians aren't trying to kill me.

	19-05-2005 06:54									#70
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I'm with JT here, despite my lame attempts at a troll earlier. Islam is a far more dangerous religion, even if Xianity is more of threat at home.

I doubt that religions have intrinsic semantic values. Well at least, when you compare stuff in the Bible with stuff in the Quran, there's nothing that allows you to make a super-clear distinction.

	19-05-2005 06:57									#71
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Christians aren't trying to kill me.

Islam isn't trying to kill you, either.

	19-05-2005 07:00									#72
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But Islamists* are.

* Is "Islamist" a word?

	19-05-2005 07:04									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris I doubt that religions have intrinsic semantic values. Well at least, when you compare stuff in the Bible with stuff in the Quran, there's nothing that allows you to make a super-clear distinction.

That's a pretty ignorant statement. For example, there's nothing in the Koran that separates church from state - in fact, it demands that they be one and the same, whereas the Bible states that people need to "render unto Caesar what is Caesars, render unto God what is God's."

In the book I referenced earlier, Bernard Smith examines this difference in great detail. You oughtta check it out before you make such blind statements as the above.

	19-05-2005 07:07									#74
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT What Ves is saying (and he can correct me if I'm wrong) is that he's sick of these backward idiots being so backwards and nobody calling them on their backwardness.

That's false, many NGOs work in Muslim countries and try to do their best to improve things.

quote: Some dipshit school board in the middle of the 32nd most populated state in the US has a proposal to teach Evilution (yuck-yuck) and the internet is full of outrage at the entirety of America. However, have a religion where the physical, psychological, and spiritual subjegation of women is part and parcel with Gods Law and we're supposed to be "tolerant" and "understanding."

People tend to be a lot more critical of their close relatives than strangers (openly, at least). America is supposed to share some values with the West, it even self-righteously describes itself as some sort of "moral leader".
Any form of "community" entails that internal voices will rise and adopt self-critical positions. OTOH there's nothing we can do to "change" instantly what we don't like about the Muslim world, except maybe genocide. Being tolerant means being patient, diplomatic, respectful, and using force only when expressly required by the situation.

If what you want is a new Inquisition, fine. But then that wouldn't make you much different from them.

	19-05-2005 07:08									#75
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT But Islamists* are.

No they aren't. Not any moreso than right-wing Xtian nuts like the Atlanta bomber and Tim McVeigh were/are.

	19-05-2005 07:09									#76
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT That's a pretty ignorant statement. For example, there's nothing in the Koran that separates church from state - in fact, it demands that they be one and the same, whereas the Bible states that people need to "render unto Caesar what is Caesars, render unto God what is God's." In the book I referenced earlier, Bernard Smith examines this difference in great detail. You oughtta check it out before you make such blind statements as the above.

The Bible is several thousand pages long, and for the past two millenia theology doctors have had it say exactly opposite things.

There's not much more in common between all forms of Christians than between people who would call themselves "atheists".

	19-05-2005 07:16									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov No they aren't. Not any moreso than right-wing Xtian nuts like the Atlanta bomber and Tim McVeigh were/are.

There are far more Islamist nuts than Xian nuts out killing people.

	19-05-2005 08:12									#78
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WTF is up with the word "Islamist."





Just stick with Muslim.

	19-05-2005 08:32									#79
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An Islamist is a follower of political Islam.

	19-05-2005 08:35									#80
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ok -- I guess I can approve of the use of that word





you have permission to carry on

	19-05-2005 08:46									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov No they aren't. Not any moreso than right-wing Xtian nuts like the Atlanta bomber and Tim McVeigh were/are.

There are a lot more Muslims trying to kill him than Christians.

	19-05-2005 08:56									#82
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT But Islamists* are. * Is "Islamist" a word?

Yes , it is a word .

	19-05-2005 09:48									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Islam isn't trying to kill you, either.

Bye UR.

	19-05-2005 09:52									#84
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara There are far more Islamist nuts than Xian nuts out killing people.

While the mad Xians have access to more advanced weaponry.

	19-05-2005 09:53									#85
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Not really, no.

	19-05-2005 10:38									#86
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara There are far more Islamist nuts than Xian nuts out killing people.

I don't know about that, in the U.S. at least. I think there's a healthy dose of Xtian nuts who are ready to go. See Elok's post to Spiffor about abortion in the other thread. Get someone slightly less stable believing the same thing, it's going to become violent.

	19-05-2005 10:39									#87
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I don't think Islam is the cause so much as a symptom, as it seems to be a popular religion for angry people who feel oppressed. Take for instance the Black Muslim movement in the US during the 70s.

	19-05-2005 10:54									#88
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Che lives in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida. NO Islamist is trying to bomb Ft. Lauderdale. So he's pretty safe. And when he was in Jacksonville, if the locals found out he was a Commie... .

As for Seperation of Church and State... it was nothing like what we consider seperationism. The State was required to pass laws according to the Bible. All the seperation of church and state meant was that preachers weren't allowed to rule the state and kings weren't allowed to rule the church, but laws had to conform to the Bible. This is seen in the Catholic "Two Swords" theory pushed forward during Gregory VII's reign. We also see this Luther's push for all secular law to be based on the Decalogue (10 Commandments). And in Calvin's Geneva, Calvin was a religious leader as well as the de facto political head of the city.

	19-05-2005 12:27									#89
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I think the KKK would be exstatic.......



ACK!

	19-05-2005 14:04									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Smiley I don't think Islam is the cause so much as a symptom, as it seems to be a popular religion for angry people who feel oppressed. Take for instance the Black Muslim movement in the US during the 70s.

Agreed, the violence comes from other factors. Islam (and any other religion for that matter) is just used as a justification.