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DanS is offline DanS
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Kickball Capital of the World
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The end of the Euro? Increase Your PM Length

Or at least the end of the perceived strength of the Euro. Portugal expects to announce a deficit of some 6 to 7% of its economy, a huge amount over the figure forecast by the IMF just a month ago. Why such a big surprise? It's like the Greece Olympic budget shenanigans. But how can Germany and France complain when they were first in line to gut the growth and stability pact?

I can see why the UK and some other European countries hesitate to join the Eurozone.

quote:
Rising deficits in Portugal and Italy rattle eurozone
By Peter Wise in Lisbon, Adrian Michaels in Milan and George Parker in Brussels
Published: May 17 2005 18:40 | Last updated: May 17 2005 18:40

GraphicThe 12-country eurozone was hit on Tuesday by revelations that the economic situation in two of its weakest members, Italy and Portugal, could be even worse than feared.

Domenico Siniscalco, Italy's finance minister, was forced to downgrade his country's growth forecasts for the second time in a month, warning that the economy might not grow at all.

Meanwhile, in Portugal it emerged on Tuesday that the centre-left government was pursuing policies that could take four years to bring the country's budget deficit below the European Union's limit of 3 per cent of GDP. Growing divergences in the eurozone were described last weekend as “seriously worrying” by Jean-Claude Juncker, the Luxembourg chairman of the eurogroup, and they are causing concern at the European Central Bank.

The rising deficits in Italy and Portugal present an early test for the 12-country club over its willingness to apply budget discipline, amid fears that the March decision to relax the EU's stability and growth pact is already leading to fiscal loosening.

Joaquin Almunia, EU monetary affairs commissioner, is determined to put pressure on both countries to cut their deficits and reform their economies, by proposing action under the pact next month. “The pact is still alive,” Mr Almunia told the FT last week.

Mr Siniscalco said yesterday that the Italian government would lower this year's growth forecast again after the country's plunge into recession in the first quarter.

The economic gloom contrasted with the arrival finally of some good news for the government of Silvio Berlusconi, as the centre-right coalition fared unexpectedly well in local elections in Sicily.

Mr Siniscalco told politicians on Tuesday that Italian growth could be 0.6 per cent. Only last month he was forced to downgrade the forecast from 2.1 per cent to 1.2 per cent.

He added: “If growth were zero, the deficit would be 4 per cent. I don't know if growth will be zero or 0.6 per cent, it's too early to tell.”

Portugal's centre-left government, which took office in April, is bracing itself for a strongly adverse reaction from international financial markets and the European Commission when a special commission reports new figures for the budget deficit next week.

Government officials expect the commission headed by Vitor Constâncio, governor of the central bank, to report a deficit between 6 and 7 per cent of gross domestic product.

In an effort to offset the impact of the report, the government is preparing sweeping measures to combat its budgetary crisis, which it fears could undermine the country's international credibility and incur disciplinary action by the Commission.

The worsening outlook in the two countries will rekindle the debate about whether they should have joined the single currency in 1999.

Germany had strong doubts during the 1990s about whether the economies of the “Club Med” countries were ready. As part of the currency union, they are denied the traditional escape routes from economic trouble: devaluation or cuts in interest rates.

With their deficits already above the EU's 3 per cent limit, neither government has scope to cut taxes or raise public spending.

“They necessarily face a slow and painful economic reform process,” said Jean Pisani-Ferry, director of Bruegel, the Brussels-based economic think-tank.

Gen. Atkinson is offline Gen. Atkinson
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And this is why Britain shouldn't join the Euro.

Hueij is offline Hueij
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May 1999
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  Old Post 18-05-2005 02:13
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I want the Guilder back! It turned out the Dutch Guilder was 20% underrated when we made the change

Ecthy is offline Ecthy
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Mar 2000
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  Old Post 18-05-2005 02:13
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You can get back into the empire if you want.

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
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quote:
Originally posted by Hueij
I want the Guilder back! It turned out the Dutch Guilder was 20% underrated when we made the change


I know the whole country wants the drachma back. I don't know about Holland but here the changeover made everyone poorer.

Hueij is offline Hueij
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What empire?

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
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and this is why switzerland should not join the EU. (but we will vote YES for schengen/dublin to bring the economy more in line with europes)

Stefu is offline Stefu
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Well, I honestly don't give a diddle about whether Finland uses markka or euro, and from what I know not a lot of other Finns do, either.

Anyway hasn't euro supposed to have ended like 15 times already, it's starting to be like PC gaming in that respect

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
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Ironically negative things said about the euro right now are positive for the euro.

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
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the markka was kinda shitty tho. you had to carry around too many, especially when you went shopping (food at Prisma, and booze at the local Alko)

Stefu is offline Stefu
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At least if markka came back I could start using the term 'mummoneuro' until everybody hit me with sticks.

Oh mummonmarkka how I hate you as a term

Gen. Atkinson is offline Gen. Atkinson
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quote:
Originally posted by paiktis22
Ironically negative things said about the euro right now are positive for the euro.


Elaborate.

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
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mummoneuro reminded me of the commissioner almunia who if you delete the inital "al" and the final "a" it becomes the female genitalia in slang. although the al adds some spanish flair to it.

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
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quote:
Originally posted by Gen. Atkinson


Elaborate.


A little devaluation to the dollar and the dollar pegged youan wouldn't be unwelcomed.

Stefu is offline Stefu
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  Old Post 18-05-2005 02:30 Visit Stefu's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by paiktis22
mummoneuro reminded me of the commissioner almunia who if you delete the inital "al" and the final "a" it becomes the female genitalia in slang. although the al adds some spanish flair to it.


If you delete the initial "al" and the "i" it becomes Finnish-language slang for male genitalia. There has to be some sort of a conspiracy involved here, probably related to the fact that both countries have a blue-white flag.

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
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  Old Post 18-05-2005 02:32 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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I admire the straight face greek and finnish politicians keep when shaking his hand then.

Stefu is offline Stefu
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Another facet of the grand conspiracy - Finland and Greece were the first nations to adopt the Euro, thanks to the shared time-zone.

Gen. Atkinson is offline Gen. Atkinson
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At the moment $1 is worth 53pence and 1EURO is worth 67pence. The Euro is stronger than the USdollar at the moment, and both are weaker than the UK£. This is a good time for us people in the UK to go abroad and spend money(but not tax) in foreign climes. Especially if we go to the States.
Exploitation here we come.

Bereta_Eder is offline Bereta_Eder
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  Old Post 18-05-2005 02:38 Visit Bereta_Eder's homepage!
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We should share a podium as the "first w*nkers*

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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  Old Post 18-05-2005 02:53 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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The Euro will end when Duke Nukem Forever is released.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
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Nov 2001
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  Old Post 18-05-2005 03:10
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Reminds me of the 1993 crisis when everybody believed we hit the end of the EMS.

Atahualpa is offline Atahualpa
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Hawthrone
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  Old Post 18-05-2005 03:19 Visit Atahualpa's homepage!
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Actually there are wishes that the euro loses some of its strength...

I don't really care anymore wether it's strong or weak... it's always good for one part of the economy

Last edited by Atahualpa on 18-05-2005 at 13:00

kronic is offline kronic
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I doubt that Italy can grow by 0,6 % this year. After all, their economy shrank by 0,5 % in the last quarter. Germany was doing surprisingly good and grew faster than the US and the UK for the first time in...well...decades.

But how can Portugal have such a large deficit? 6-7 %. Anyway, I don't expect much trouble for the € because of this. The Portuguese economy does not have that much weight.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS
But how can Germany and France complain when they were first in line to gut the growth and stability pact?

I would have said something very not nice about our glorious leaders' behaviour when they're temporarily out of trouble, but this article doesn't allow me to
The article only metionns rhe German doubts of 1990. It was a time before the Germans sufferend from the pact themselves, back when they thought about nothing but their obsession of a stable currency.

quote:
I can see why the UK and some other European countries hesitate to join the Eurozone.

The argument of the foreign deficits is probably a powerful one among political elites in these countries, but I thin the ordinary citizen mostly thinks about the disappearance of a national symbol. And when it comes to monetary policy, foreign deficits are definitely not the only gripe against the Euro (the fanatical devotion of the ECB to price stability, and the complete loss of sovereignty over monetary policy can be spinned just as efficiently)

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
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I think the Euro was a good idea but the ECB does need to losen up a bit.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
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quote:
Originally posted by Kidicious
the ECB does need to losen up a bit.

This is quite an understatement

Dracon II is offline Dracon II
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quote:
Reminds me of the 1993 crisis when everybody believed we hit the end of the EMS


That was because of the ERM, wasn't it?

Is the stronger pound, and hence better purchasing power in Europe, the reason why the UK doesn't adopt the Euro? Or was it a sovereignty thing?

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
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quote:
Originally posted by Dracon II
Is the stronger pound, and hence better purchasing power in Europe, the reason why the UK doesn't adopt the Euro? Or was it a sovereignty thing?


I think it depends on who you ask, but the sovereignty issue seems to be the most popular. I think they will try to do without joining the EU as long as they can. As long as the rest of Europe struggles economically there won't be much support to join.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
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quote:
Originally posted by Dracon II
Is the stronger pound, and hence better purchasing power in Europe, the reason why the UK doesn't adopt the Euro? Or was it a sovereignty thing?

I think it's a sovereignty thing. It has appeared in the past that Blair lean towards the Euro, but the sovereignty issue makes it completely unpalatable to British testes.

Colon is offline Colon
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS
Or at least the end of the perceived strength of the Euro. Portugal expects to announce a deficit of some 6 to 7% of its economy, a huge amount over the figure forecast by the IMF just a month ago. Why such a big surprise? It's like the Greece Olympic budget shenanigans. But how can Germany and France complain when they were first in line to gut the growth and stability pact?

I can see why the UK and some other European countries hesitate to join the Eurozone.



I've noticed the article fails to make any mention of the current account deficit the eurozone has. Probably because it doesn't have one.

And I don't see how the budget deficit in Portugal would have affected UK's. In any case, they're doing well enough off on their own ranking up the deficit: forecasted deficit of 3.2% this year.

 
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