05-06-2005 02:21									#451
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quote: Originally posted by Hercules I would have kicked your ass Spiffor but I might have broken my big toe and several other toes and some knees and maybe a thigh bone and well maybe a rib or two while I was at it.

And my ass is very flaccid. It's not like kicking my ass would be hurting me

	05-06-2005 02:21									#452
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar 276 LASERS 275 TORPEDOS 276 FIGHTERS

Wow. Has the game ever been so balanced?

	05-06-2005 03:19									#453
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Wow. Has the game ever been so balanced?

Well, at the start of the game it was 0-0-0.

	05-06-2005 03:52									#454
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Come on, let's have some action, folks!

(not that I intend to provide any of the action...:cute

	05-06-2005 03:56									#455
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Oh, and by the way, what's the deal with people sending "use the same OOB as my ally" orders? It ruins the chances for backstabbery.

	05-06-2005 04:03									#456
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I've sent the BionicGalacticDove7DD to Jamski. It contains my orders.

	05-06-2005 04:08									#457
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar Oh, and by the way, what's the deal with people sending "use the same OOB as my ally" orders? It ruins the chances for backstabbery.

TRUTH

	05-06-2005 04:34									#458
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Tonnage by Overlord:
Clone Point 105
Ken Banobi 93
Senator Danq 93
Captain Imperium 88
Mr. Y 84
Basileus Naviniwat 83

Min Grah 65
General Ordin 65
Poly Siffan 61
Zol Ventis 60

Ciann Pollus 30

	05-06-2005 04:41									#459
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar Oh, and by the way, what's the deal with people sending "use the same OOB as my ally" orders? It ruins the chances for backstabbery.

I said last turn that this will no longer be accepted. I restate it. Had the ally of Herc attacked, they would have done so without Herc. Please people, send an OoB. The whole discussion of OoB with an ally is the strength and the weakness of the allied attack/defence. Just how much DO you trust them? Remember 2nd place is nothing.

	05-06-2005 05:03									#460
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski I said last turn that this will no longer be accepted. I restate it. Had the ally of Herc attacked, they would have done so without Herc.

You mean, if Ljube the mysterious ally of Herc had attacked, his attack wouldn't have been strengthened by Herc's troops?

And if somebody had attacked Herc on that turn, Herc's troops would have been away nonetheless?

	05-06-2005 05:27									#461
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I think that would be a fair interpretion of the rules.

	05-06-2005 05:32									#462
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I just had an even more evil idea.

IIRC, if two allies send you a different OoB, they're considered as different (rival) attackers. When an attacker doesn't provide you with an OoB at all, you should roll a random OoB and attack with it. If this random OoB doesn't exactly correspond to his allies', then he becomes his allies' rival

	05-06-2005 05:36									#463
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor I just had an even more evil idea. IIRC, if two allies send you a different OoB, they're considered as different (rival) attackers. When an attacker doesn't provide you with an OoB at all, you should roll a random OoB and attack with it. If this random OoB doesn't exactly correspond to his allies', then he becomes his allies' rival

Sufficiently evil. I like it.

Do they fight before or after engaging the defending fleet?

	05-06-2005 05:37									#464
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I can't stay online for the whole day trying to negotiate allied attacks. Your change to the rules is preventing me from attacking in an alliance ever again. Also, I seem to remember that you yourself once gave control over your fleet to Skanky Burns. This should always be accepted since not all people are able to send their orders in the strict timeframe you have imposed on us.

	05-06-2005 05:42									#465
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His timeframe was not at all strict. Two days is plenty of time. You're not the only one who has to coordinate with allies. And the allies I've coordinated with are in drastically different time zones as well.

	05-06-2005 05:45									#466
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I simply don't have as much time as I used to have. And I don't have a reserve place to coordinate alliances.

I don't see what is wrong with the formulation that Jamski introduced: "I give command of my fleet to NAME".

	05-06-2005 05:46									#467
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I deem that acceptable, actually.

	05-06-2005 07:27									#468
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No "use my ally's OoB" is OK, but compound that with the no resending orders makes for difficult logistics.

On the other hand, it can be argued that less allied action is probably a good thing.

	05-06-2005 09:07									#469
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No "use my ally's OoB" is OK. However my expression was and always will be "I give command of my fleet to NAME". This is radically different and must be allowed.

	05-06-2005 10:59									#470
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I don't think it takes THAT long, ljube ... heck, I manage to coordinate with Mr. "I'm on once a week" Jonny ... Just include a suggested OOB with the initial alliance suggestion, like I usually do. Then when they respond, they respond with agreement and/or a counterOOB... that's one send and one reply, more than enough.

On a second note, I can't see the pic with the standings ...

	05-06-2005 11:37									#471
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Yes, I can't see it anymore either.

	05-06-2005 18:27									#472
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Same here. Photobucket must not like the traffic

	05-06-2005 20:16									#473
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Curious. I'll rehost it. Shame 'poly has such tiny limits on attachments.

-Jam

	05-06-2005 20:21									#474
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Ok, here it is again.

Ljube, your complaints about orders would carry more weight if you were more in the habit of sending some.

Those having trouble arranging alliances, may I suggest instead of "I use the same OoB as X" or "I place my fleet under the command of X" you nominate a member of your alliance as the "leader" who sends orders with the OoB to me, and also to you. Then you can copy+paste the OoB if you wish and send it to me. Or backstab them horribly, or whatever.

You see the problem with "same OoB as X" when X doesn't send an OoB

As for resending orders, we now have few enough players that I can allow this again

-Jam

Attachment: round 7 table.jpg
This has been downloaded 51 time(s).

	05-06-2005 23:28									#475
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I think "use same OOB as ally" should not be allowed, for this reason. Suppose I want to be a bastard and tell my ally to attack someone with me, and then go steal his bases while he fights the defender 1-on-1. It's a classic betrayal plan, and it works well because it completely destroys the fleet of one player, and damages the fleet of the other.

But now, with the "use same OOB", the fleet just gets to leave the battlesite without fighting at all.


Turning over your fleet to your ally for a turn is fine. You'd better trust them, though.

	06-06-2005 00:05									#476
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"Use same OoB as ally" is OK with me, but if the ally doesn't come through, the attack should still go on, but without an OoB your fleet should then be destroyed (or use a random OoB).

	06-06-2005 01:45									#477
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quote: Originally posted by civman2000 "Use same OoB as ally" is OK with me, but if the ally doesn't come through, the attack should still go on, but without an OoB your fleet should then be destroyed (or use a random OoB).

If it's allowed, then it MUST be this way. It is not GO without this possibility. But i'd strongly prefer it not be allowed. You should figure out OOBs ahead of time, or you're not putting enough into this game.

	06-06-2005 01:56									#478
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Ordres scent

	06-06-2005 02:35									#479
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Its not a discussion. "Use same OoB as X" is not an option. I can't believe its not possible to agree an OoB in 48 hours. Get allies' work emails, mobile phone numbers (send 'em a text), send a PM, take control. I suppose I can run longer turns if its really an issue.

Random OoBs are not part of GO. One of the core beliefs of the GO design is that there should be no random element at all.

-Jam

	06-06-2005 02:43									#480
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Why not use the last turn's OoB as a default?