21-05-2005 11:02									#61
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Poor Winston can't tell the difference between a cap and toupee.

	21-05-2005 11:05									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon NYE is hard right, and almost always wrong. Grouchy bugger too.

That's curmudgeon to you, bub.

But seriously, Marx would be hard right from your perch beyond the edge of lunacy.

	21-05-2005 11:10									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker define "right",

Look in the dictionary and find "see Berzerker"

	21-05-2005 11:27									#64
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The way we define "right" here (in Denmark) is "non-socialist". People on the right are called borgerlige, which best translates to "non-socialist". That's the traditional left/right division between political parties and their voters.

	21-05-2005 11:43									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor In no particular order: Speer BK Ned Mr Nice Guy Drake Tungsten Malevolent Light David Floyd Jaguar Kuci Al Kimiya

I look at this list, and the first thing that comes to mind is that you must be on drugs.

	21-05-2005 11:50									#66
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Daddy's home.

	21-05-2005 12:05									#67
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand I look at this list, and the first thing that comes to mind is that you must be on drugs.

No... he's mostly correct, from the time he's been posting at Poly.

	21-05-2005 12:59									#68
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Sloww's just jealous that I got onto the list and he didn't...

	21-05-2005 13:07									#69
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That list could keep a fleet of barrage balloons airborne.

	21-05-2005 13:08									#70
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Not without your help, my friend.

	21-05-2005 13:38									#71
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quote: Because, historically, unbridled economic freedom runs roughshod over personal and social freedoms and destroys the ability of individuals to exercise those at will.

I'm sure you have ample evidence of this? I can point to dozens of countries where governments assumed more control over the economy and the result was more control over people's personal decisions so I see a flaw with the left. Governments exerting "ownership" over our property will eventually exert ownership over us.

Virtually the entire western world became more liberal in the 20th century and the result was the loss of economic freedom followed by the loss of our personal freedom. Once the taxpayers are paying for the behavior of others thru various government schemes to re-distribute wealth, they'll want to place controls on that behavior.

And since the "right" is made up by so many conservative religious folk who seem to think their salvation requires "saving" others from "sin",
i.e., laws violating our personal freedom, liberals end up giving away our personal freedom to get their welfare state. Not one liberal country I know of would allow me to use cocaine. Thats a personal freedom and a freedom we had 120 years ago when we had more economic freedom. Now we need permission to ingest what we want...

	21-05-2005 13:39									#72
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quote: Virtually the entire western world became more liberal in the 20th century and the result was the loss of economic freedom followed by the loss of our personal freedom.

Really? The welfare state meant that my Great Grandfather got to spend his final years drinking with his buddies rather than choking down a mine.

I reckon he'd throw his darts at you if he were here?

	21-05-2005 14:06									#73
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Dan most certainly isn't amongst the most rightist members on this board. I've spend some time with him and I've hardle heard him utter one single conservative word on social issues. Pretty much an urban 20-something like any other.

And sure, he's a bit messed up in his economics, but who isn't nowadays.

Last edited by Colon on 21-05-2005 at 14:32

	21-05-2005 14:08									#74
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quote: Really? The welfare state meant that my Great Grandfather got to spend his final years drinking with his buddies rather than choking down a mine.

If he was alive in a welfare state, it meant strangers were forced to subsidise his drinking. Does that count as a freedom for those paying his bar tabs?

Thats why liberals dont believe in economic freedom, they cant fund their welfare state without other people's money. So if you're gonna tell people you need their money (to unintentionally break up families), why not just tell a whopper and tell them you need it to protect their freedom...yeah, thats the ticket...

quote: I reckon he'd throw his darts at you if he were here?

Or at his children and friends who would rather see him choking down in a mine than take care of him. Nope, its those strangers who should be forced to take care of him... Maybe Gramps should have saved some money, huh. He can't depend on his kids, they're liberal and think he should be taken care of by strangers.

	21-05-2005 14:33									#75
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Ned is so rightwing he has a whole universe to himself, where history takes bizarre turns, and Great Britain started WWI in order to start losing its empire and cede its financial position in South America to the U.S. and somehow also bizarrely began WWII, despite Germany's invasion of Poland having a prior claim.


But I'd like to include Obi Gyn for his obsessive concern with other people's genitals and reproductive systems too, and fondness for faux-sententious non sequiturs in debate.


I can't really think of Sikander as being rightwing- he certainly has liberal(ish) social values at times, and his taste in music is far too good.


Albert Speer occasionally comes off as a kind of Islamic version of Obi Gyn, with a twist of the Nedaverse about him, a universe where Islam NEVER DID ANYTHING BAD AND ALL WESTERNERS ARE/WERE STUPID.

	21-05-2005 19:45									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Only if you define "religious" as "insanely batshit crazy religious." Otherwise, I think BK and Grandpa Troll win that title. Both are quite devout without being mentally deranged about it.

	21-05-2005 19:51									#77
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Most 'righties' here are libertarians. Its just that many 'lefties' at poly are so far to the left that they fail to recognize the difference.

Viva la partie Libertarian.

	21-05-2005 19:53									#78
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Hey! Don'ty forget CivNation!

I think that Fez/Giancarlo and Albert Speers would have to rank as the most right-winged of all. It takes a dedicated right-winger to stick up for Franco.

	21-05-2005 19:54									#79
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Oooh, CivNation, now there's a blast from the past He was totally of his rocker, wasn't he?

	21-05-2005 21:22									#80
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Gays are devil offspring...

	21-05-2005 21:34									#81
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Conservative Germans, now ther's a scary thought.

	21-05-2005 22:07									#82
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quote: If he was alive in a welfare state, it meant strangers were forced to subsidise his drinking. Does that count as a freedom for those paying his bar tabs?

What counts as freedom depends entirely on what you value. You say that people should be free to pay tax if they want; I say that old people should be free to live their lives in dignity and security.

You can't just sat "that's not freedom" since you will be imposing your own partisan definition on the word.

	21-05-2005 22:13									#83
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Berz has lived a sheltered life. He's never been exposed to old people, he's not aware of how people get weaker as they age, or get arthritis or other ilnesses.

	21-05-2005 22:30									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker I'm sure you have ample evidence of this? I can point to dozens of countries where governments assumed more control over the economy and the result was more control over people's personal decisions so I see a flaw with the left. Governments exerting "ownership" over our property will eventually exert ownership over us. Virtually the entire western world became more liberal in the 20th century and the result was the loss of economic freedom followed by the loss of our personal freedom. Once the taxpayers are paying for the behavior of others thru various government schemes to re-distribute wealth, they'll want to place controls on that behavior. And since the "right" is made up by so many conservative religious folk who seem to think their salvation requires "saving" others from "sin", i.e., laws violating our personal freedom, liberals end up giving away our personal freedom to get their welfare state. Not one liberal country I know of would allow me to use cocaine. Thats a personal freedom and a freedom we had 120 years ago when we had more economic freedom. Now we need permission to ingest what we want...

BS, economic freedom has nothing to do with personal freedom. Indeed, I think they are a trade off to some extent. As I have said many other times, a libertarian utopia is impossible because it would degenerate into defacto feudalism. So much for personal freedom. Libertarianism is an invention of greedy twerps as a way to rationalize and legitimize thier scummy behavior.

	21-05-2005 23:09									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker define "right", if economic freedom - market liberalism - is right wing then why aren't the people who believe in personal or social freedom right wing as well? The problem is liberals are more accepting of personal freedom but not economic freedom and social conservatives - the "religious right" - believe the opposite. To call one group "left" and the other "right" seems to miss the point. If liberals are making my economic decisions and conservatives are making my personal decisions, they're just 2 sides of the same coin and those who believe in freedom lose regardless of which side rears it's ugly head. Calling one left and the other right is about as useful as making a distinction between socialists and fascists.

Berz, congrats. Someone who has begun to think. Left and right has at least three and maybe more axes: Economic, social and political. Economically, the LESS government control, the more RIGHT one is. Socially, the MORE control over social decisions, the more RIGHT one is. Politically, I would say, the more democratic the more RIGHT one is, but here we can have an healthy debate, as I see leftists always on the side of totalitarianism regardless of their demurrers to the contrary.

I personally am economically and politically on the right. Socially, I tend to be on the left, but only to a small degree.

	21-05-2005 23:21									#86
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quote: Originally posted by molly bloom Ned is so rightwing he has a whole universe to himself, where history takes bizarre turns, and Great Britain started WWI in order to start losing its empire and cede its financial position in South America to the U.S. and somehow also bizarrely began WWII, despite Germany's invasion of Poland having a prior claim.

I think you meant WWII.

When I was a kid, I was taught that there was no real blame attached to any power regarding WWI. It just snowballed, historians said, due to interlocking alliances.

But as to WWII and as to a lot of the other conflicts in the world since WWI*, Britian is deeply involved in creating the causes for war and to actually starting them. Now I am not the only one who has ever said this, as it appears to be a consensus view among all of Britains victims. But, British propaganda is very good, I agree. It almost has most of the world convinced that Britain is the most disinterested, kindly and munificent nation that ever existed.

*Germany vs. Poland, China vs. Japan, Arab vs. Jew in Palestine, Pakistan vs. India. There are more of course. But these stand out.

	22-05-2005 00:19									#87
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I'm really not very conservative at all. If I am one of the ten most right-wing posters, it would only be because Apolyton is so far to the left.

	22-05-2005 01:29									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion Gays are devil offspring...

Come join the dark side.

	22-05-2005 01:30									#89
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi I'm really not very conservative at all.

One of the more funny posts in this thread.

	22-05-2005 01:36									#90
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no one has mentioned me. And I voted for GWB in 2000.