22-05-2005 01:49									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Colon Dan most certainly isn't amongst the most rightist members on this board. I've spend some time with him and I've hardle heard him utter one single conservative word on social issues. Pretty much an urban 20-something like any other.

Not saying anything is a self-preservation instinct in this city, considering that I'm one of the very few Republicans.

I also have some principles that are easier to maintain by not saying anything.

quote: And sure, he's a bit messed up in his economics, but who isn't nowadays.

I'll take that as a compliment.

	22-05-2005 02:09									#92
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A true conservative wouldn't listen to the music of Satan.

	22-05-2005 03:15									#93
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident no one has mentioned me. And I voted for GWB in 2000.

And where you YOU been young man????

Your mother and I have been worried sick about you!

	22-05-2005 03:48									#94
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Interesting notion, Ned, of a cube to represent political ideologies, rather than a square.

	22-05-2005 03:52									#95
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon If there was some sort of coherent ideology underlying right wing thought, this would actually be possible. The left is broadly committed to equality - the right seem to be committed to all sorts of things, some of which do not cohere.

The "define communism for me" thread.

Owned.

	22-05-2005 03:53									#96
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quote: Originally posted by Odin many of my relatives are very religious, and they arn't "insanely batsh*t crazy". Hell, they're almost socialist on economic issues.

	22-05-2005 04:59									#97
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quote: It almost has most of the world convinced that Britain is the most disinterested, kindly and munificent nation that ever existed.

Who believes that outside the royal family?

	22-05-2005 05:01									#98
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Bush just gave a speech at a Christian college in Michigan, Calvin College. He was met by an unexpectedly large number of protestors, many of whom carried posters or wore buttons complaining that Christians don't start unjust wars.

	22-05-2005 05:15									#99
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Yeah, and what percentage of professors at the uni level are Christians, even in the 'Christian' colleges?

	22-05-2005 05:17									#100
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quote: Yeah, and what percentage of professors at the uni level are Christians, even in the 'Christian' colleges?

You should come to one of my classes Ben, and be humiliated in front of a hundred girls.

	22-05-2005 05:24									#101
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Actually that sounds rather fun

	22-05-2005 12:35									#102
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NED.



DanS.
Berzerker.
Lancer.
Sikander.



Even though I'm a far lefty and might hate what they say, I'll still respect what they say. Although Ned is so far right it almost seems like he's a fascist.

Although Sikander I gotta give my props to because I agree with him every now and then.

	22-05-2005 18:02									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Ned I think you meant WWII. When I was a kid, I was taught that there was no real blame attached to any power regarding WWI. It just snowballed, historians said, due to interlocking alliances. But as to WWII and as to a lot of the other conflicts in the world since WWI*, Britian is deeply involved in creating the causes for war and to actually starting them. Now I am not the only one who has ever said this, as it appears to be a consensus view among all of Britains victims. But, British propaganda is very good, I agree. It almost has most of the world convinced that Britain is the most disinterested, kindly and munificent nation that ever existed. *Germany vs. Poland, China vs. Japan, Arab vs. Jew in Palestine, Pakistan vs. India. There are more of course. But these stand out.

Ladies and gentlemen, book your seats for the tour of the Nedaverse, the Gonzo Shuttle will be blasting off shortly....

	22-05-2005 18:09									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Yeah, and what percentage of professors at the uni level are Christians, even in the 'Christian' colleges?

Depending on the school, in the US it could be all of them. That's why parents send their kids to these places. A private university has more leeway in its hiring policiies than a public one. Do you honestly think that a professor at Bob Jones U. or Liberty U. would last a second if he contradicted the official policy of the school regarding religion or politics? I can guarentee you that at LU evolution is not taught.

	22-05-2005 18:10									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Ned I think you meant WWII. When I was a kid, I was taught that there was no real blame attached to any power regarding WWI. It just snowballed, historians said, due to interlocking alliances. But as to WWII and as to a lot of the other conflicts in the world since WWI*, Britian is deeply involved in creating the causes for war and to actually starting them. Now I am not the only one who has ever said this, as it appears to be a consensus view among all of Britains victims. But, British propaganda is very good, I agree. It almost has most of the world convinced that Britain is the most disinterested, kindly and munificent nation that ever existed. *Germany vs. Poland, China vs. Japan, Arab vs. Jew in Palestine, Pakistan vs. India. There are more of course. But these stand out.

Oh my ****ing god...

	22-05-2005 18:24									#106
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar Oh my ****ing god...

Yes, Muslims only started fighting Hindus in India after the British arrived. Ignore that thing about Mahmud of Ghazni, the Moghul Empire and Iranian invasions.


And before the British had the Palestine Mandate, no Arab ever killed a Jew.


And as for Japan and China, they were getting on famously until Great Britain convinced Japan to invade Korea and China and the British Empire in the Far East.


As for Germany invading Poland without declaring war in 1939, ignore what Hitler said in 'Mein Kampf' about Slavs, Jews and Lebensraum, and find the real culprit:

Neville Chamberlain.


He made Hitler do it.


I swear, Jaguar, you should have read Ned's posts about why WWII was Great Britain's fault- it all begins with Great Britain not recognising that Nazi Germany had a perfect right to force the Anschluss on Austria and gobble up Czechoslovakia because apparently Nazi Germany was the obvious legal successor to the Holy Roman Empire of the Hohenstaufens at some point or other.


I've rarely read so many stupefied, agog and amused responses from such a wide spectrum of 'Poly posters.

Ned is great entertainment value, which is why I'd never put him on ignore- I mean you can't buy that quality of absurdist comedic entertainment, since Groucho Marx died.

	22-05-2005 18:28									#107
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quote: And as for Japan and China, they were getting on famously until Great Britain convinced Japan to invade Korea and China and the British Empire in the Far East.

Relations between China and Japan only soured after Japan joined in on the imperialism in China that had been started by the British...

	22-05-2005 18:44									#108
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: And as for Japan and China, they were getting on famously until Great Britain convinced Japan to invade Korea and China and the British Empire in the Far East. Relations between China and Japan only soured after Japan joined in on the imperialism in China that had been started by the British...

Oh you're absolutely right of course- the perfidious British forced the Japanese to attack China !

	22-05-2005 19:06									#109
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No. They did however play a large role in weakening China enough and strengthening Japan enough to reverse the historical balance of power in Asia, thereby making such an attack possible...

	22-05-2005 19:10									#110
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten No. They did however play a large role in weakening China enough and strengthening Japan enough to reverse the historical balance of power in Asia, thereby making such an attack possible...

So in fact the British weren't responsible for Japan attacking China. Glad we cleared that up.


I suppose those little civil wars and rebellions that occurred in 19th Century China couldn't have had something to do with the weakening of the Manchu Dynasty could they ?

Or Russian imperialism in the Far East ?

And I suppose Japan just would have forgotten about the example of the Portuguese in Macau, the Spanish in the Philippines and American imperialism in the Pacific and the Philippines too ?

Yeah, I think those examples of imperialism would have escaped them entirely- they would have needed the British to show them how to really dislike China.

	22-05-2005 19:16									#111
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quote: I suppose those little civil wars and rebellions that occurred in 19th Century China couldn't have had something to do with the weakening of the Manchu Dynasty could they ? Or Russian imperialism in the Far East?

All child's play compared to the damage done to China by Western imperialism, begun by the British with the Opium Wars...

quote: And I suppose Japan just would have forgotten about the example of the Portuguese in Macau, the Spanish in the Philippines and American imperialism in the Pacific and the Philippines too ?

The Tokugawa were trying to isolate Japan from imperialism, not join in on it. It was the forces behind the Meiji Restoration, backed in no small part by the British, who set Japan upon the path of modernization and expansion that would eventually lead to the WWII excesses of an imperial Japan.

quote: Yeah, I think those examples of imperialism would have escaped them entirely- they would have needed the British to show them how to really dislike China.

You're sadly mistaken if you think a dislike for China had much of anything to do with Japan's imperialist actions. Had much more to do with a intense desire to emulate and be respected by the Western powers, especially Britain...

	22-05-2005 19:24									#112
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It's a shame being lumped together with libertarians.. there's nothing right about them.

Btw.. time for a new political compass thread already

	22-05-2005 19:30									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten You're sadly mistaken if you think a dislike for China had much of anything to do with Japan's imperialist actions. Had much more to do with a intense desire to emulate and be respected by the Western powers, especially Britain...

Still haven't shown how the British Empire forced Japan to invade & colonize Korea and provoke a war with China.

Aren't rightwingers keen on the idea of personal responsibility ?

You know, if you do something, a tu quoque defence of 'they did it too teacher !' is regarded as being piss poor even in infant school.

	22-05-2005 19:34									#114
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quote: Still haven't shown how the British Empire forced Japan to invade & colonize Korea and provoke a war with China.

That was never my goal. I don't go in for historical revisionism.

	22-05-2005 19:40									#115
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten The Tokugawa were trying to isolate Japan from imperialism, not join in on it. It was the forces behind the Meiji Restoration, backed in no small part by the British, who set Japan upon the path of modernization and expansion that would eventually lead to the WWII excesses of an imperial Japan.

This is only half the story: the British forced the Japanese to modernize in order to stave off the next Mongolian invasion of the archipelago, which, if succesfull, would have allowed the heirs of Genghis Khan to utilize Japan as a springboard for the conquest of the US. Obviously this would have an untenable position for Britain.

	22-05-2005 19:40									#116
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: Still haven't shown how the British Empire forced Japan to invade & colonize Korea and provoke a war with China. That was never my goal. I don't go in for historical revisionism.

I'm unsure what your goal was then.

If Ned's point is that Great Britain was somehow responsible for Japan invading China, and you state in a subseuqent post that relations only soured between Japan and China after the advent of Western Imperialism in mainland China, then you're implying some ineluctable chain of causality.

If Great Britain didn't force Japan to invade Korea or provoke China to attack Japan then it isn't responsible for Japan going to war with China. The Japanese could presumably have chosen some other geo-political expression of nationhood couldn't they ?

But they chose not to.

Unless you believe that the Japanese could take only the British as exemplars.

	22-05-2005 19:47									#117
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quote: This is only half the story: the British forced the Japanese to modernize in order to stave off the next Mongolian invasion of the archipelago, which, if succesfull, would have allowed the heirs of Genghis Khan to utilize Japan as a springboard for the conquest of the US. Obviously this would have an untenable position for Britain.

Don't be ridiculous. We all know that the Mongols never really existed.

quote: I'm unsure what your goal was then.

Who says I have one? Sometimes I just enjoy being contrary...

quote: If Ned's point is that Great Britain was somehow responsible for Japan invading China, and you state in a subseuqent post that relations only soured between Japan and China after the advent of Western Imperialism in mainland China, then you're implying some ineluctable chain of causality.

No, I'm not. I'm merely providing some context for your flippant remark.

	22-05-2005 19:56									#118
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten No, I'm not. I'm merely providing some context for your flippant remark.

I'm sorry that you don't appear to appreciate the difference between sarcasm and flippancy.

	22-05-2005 20:13									#119
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Thank you for your concern.

	22-05-2005 20:23									#120
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Thank you for your concern.

Goodness knows, you obviously need some.