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Dr Strangelove
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Doesn't CharlesHBoff rate this list?
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molly bloom
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Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
I must be doing something "right" to take this prize!!
On China v. Japan, who gave Japan that province just above Shanghai and her rights in Manchuria?
Britain. |
You're talking through your hat- since Japan had already invaded Manchuria, and the people who supposedly gave (or recognised that they couldn't remove Japan) were the League of Nations.
God, is this the Nedaverse mescalin variety of history you're peddling now ?
What really happened for anyone not living in the Nedaverse:
" An explosion on a section of the South Manchuria Railway, gave the army the excuse it needed to blame the local population of sabotage and to occupy the nearest Manchurian town of Shenyang. The League at China's request immediately ordered the Japanese army to withdraw. Japan's delegates at the League's headquarters in Geneva, agreed to this demand and blamed the event on army "hot-heads".
The Japanese government in Tokyo also agreed to this demand. However, the army did not listen and it launched a full-scale invasion of Manchuria and by the end of 1931, it had occupied the whole of the province. The civilian government had clearly lost control of the army, and the League's position was that it would deal with the government of the aggressor nation. But how could this succeed when the government had no control over the army which was the cause of the problem ?
The League could introduce three sanctions. Verbal warnings clearly did not work. However, the impact of the Depression meant that those nations that traded with Japan did not want to risk losing this trade. If a nation did give up trading with Japan, as Britain pointed out, their place would quickly be taken by another country willing to get trade started with the Far East's most powerful nation.
Britain was also concerned about her colonies in the Far East, particularly Hong Kong and Singapore. Would Japan attack them if Britain sided with those who wanted to carry out economic sanctions on Japan ?
How did the League deal with this problem of aggression ?
It established a Commission of Enquiry lead by Lord Lytton of Great Britain. This Commission, after a lengthy visit to the Far East including Manchuria, reported in October 1932. Lytton concluded that Japan should leave Manchuria but that Manchuria itself should be run as a semi-independent country instead of returning to Chinese rule. The report was accepted and approved by the League in 1933. In response to the report and the League accepting it, Japan resigned from the League and occupied a region around Manchuria called Jehol, which it claimed gave the Japanese army the ability to defend Manchuria. "
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/manchuria.htm
Last edited by molly bloom on 23-05-2005 at 16:26
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molly bloom
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Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Ned also forgets that Japan annexed Korea in 1910. |
Didn't you know ?
The British made them do it. The Japanese had never, ever, in their whole history, evinced any interest whatsoever in Korea, until Great Britain captured Jamaica in 1655.
This inspired the Japanese nearly three hundred years later to invade the Korean peninsula.
Well, the Nedaverse Korean peninsula, that is....
The Anglo-Spanish war resulted in the seizure of Jamaica in 1655 and Dunkirk in 1658. Cromwell's anti-Spanish foreign policy was criticised as anachronistic even during the Protectorate because Spain was declining as a world power and the Spanish war was damaging to English commercial interests.
Oliver Cromwell:
" I predict that our capture of Jamaica in 1655 will lead our soon-to-be glorious allies in WWI to invade the Korean peninsula in 1910. We are setting a precedent for badarse people to come, everywhere- the Germans, the Pakistanis, the Palestinians and probably the Somalian invasion of Ethiopia too. Verily, we are the baddest arse mofos that will ever be, and are the root of all conflicts. Praise be!"
Little known quote from Cromwell's days as Pseudo-Nostradamus.
Last edited by molly bloom on 23-05-2005 at 16:26
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Dr Strangelove
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WW1 began in 1914, not 1910.
Japan occupied Korea in 1885, during the Sino-Japanese War. They formally annexed Korea in 1910.
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Ned
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of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:21
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quote:
Originally posted by molly bloom
You're talking through your hat- since Japan had already invaded Manchuria, and the people who supposedly gave (or recognised that they couldn't remove Japan) were the League of Nations.
God, is this the Nedaverse mescalin variety of history you're peddling now ?
What really happened for anyone not living in the Nedaverse:
" An explosion on a section of the South Manchuria Railway, gave the army the excuse it needed to blame the local population of sabotage and to occupy the nearest Manchurian town of Shenyang. The League at China's request immediately ordered the Japanese army to withdraw. Japan's delegates at the League's headquarters in Geneva, agreed to this demand and blamed the event on army "hot-heads".
The Japanese government in Tokyo also agreed to this demand. However, the army did not listen and it launched a full-scale invasion of Manchuria and by the end of 1931, it had occupied the whole of the province. The civilian government had clearly lost control of the army, and the League's position was that it would deal with the government of the aggressor nation. But how could this succeed when the government had no control over the army which was the cause of the problem ?
The League could introduce three sanctions. Verbal warnings clearly did not work. However, the impact of the Depression meant that those nations that traded with Japan did not want to risk losing this trade. If a nation did give up trading with Japan, as Britain pointed out, their place would quickly be taken by another country willing to get trade started with the Far East's most powerful nation.
Britain was also concerned about her colonies in the Far East, particularly Hong Kong and Singapore. Would Japan attack them if Britain sided with those who wanted to carry out economic sanctions on Japan ?
How did the League deal with this problem of aggression ?
It established a Commission of Enquiry lead by Lord Lytton of Great Britain. This Commission, after a lengthy visit to the Far East including Manchuria, reported in October 1932. Lytton concluded that Japan should leave Manchuria but that Manchuria itself should be run as a semi-independent country instead of returning to Chinese rule. The report was accepted and approved by the League in 1933. In response to the report and the League accepting it, Japan resigned from the League and occupied a region around Manchuria called Jehol, which it claimed gave the Japanese army the ability to defend Manchuria. "
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/manchuria.htm |
You obviously are very well versed in British propaganda. But you failed to actually read my post. The reason the Japanese were in China and had received one province and the rights to Manchuria was because of the Treaty of Versailles -- yes that infamous DICTAT that everyone agrees was the cause of WWII in Europe. Well, it just so happens, it had the same exact effect in China.
As to the Arab v. Jew situation, you know as well as I that the Jews and the Arabs got along famously for two millenia. They were allies, after all, in their war against Romania and Christian Europe. King Faisal had granted them "homeland" status in Palestine just before the Treaty of Versailles was finalized. But when the Brits betrayed!!!!!! the Arabs and kept Palestine for itself, the Arabs went to war against both the Brits and the Jews of Palestine.
Thank you Britain for another war that never seems to end. Causa belli galore!!!!
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Ned
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of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Ned also forgets that Japan annexed Korea in 1910. |
Yeah, but it took Korea away from China.
Sino-Japanese War
War fought between China and Japan from 1894 to 1895. Provoked by a dispute over control of Korea, the Sino-Japanese War came to symbolize the degeneration and enfeeblement of the Qing dynasty. It demonstrated how successful modernization had been in Japan since the Meiji Restoration as compared with that in China. Japan feared Russian expansion into northern China and Korea, and sought foreign conquests in line with nationalistic Meiji ideology. Yi dynasty Korea sought to preserve its traditional seclusion and tributary relationship with China, which in turn strove to protect its principal vassal.
Since 1875 China had allowed Japan to recognize Korea as an independent state. Then, as China tried to reassert influence over its former tributary, this provoked rivalry with Japan and a split in Korean public opinion between modernizing reformists and inward-looking conservatives. In 1894 a pro-Japanese Korean reformist was assassinated in Shanghai and a Korean religious sect, the Tonghak, began a rebellion. The Korean government appealed to China for assistance and the Japanese encouraged Chinese intervention, only to send an expedition ostensibly in support of Korean reformists, reaching Seoul by June 8 and seizing the royal palace a fortnight later.
War was officially declared on August 1, 1894, although land and naval fighting had begun before that. The Japanese army defeated the Chinese in a series of battles around Seoul and Pyóngyang, forcing them to retreat north. Further victories in Liaoning opened the way to China proper, and by November 21 the Japanese had taken Port Arthur (modern Luda). China's northern fleet was mauled by the Japanese navy off the mouth of the Yalu River, losing 8 out of 12 warships, retreated behind the fortifications of the Weihaiwei naval base, and was then caught by a surprise Japanese land attack across the Liaodong Peninsula which shattered the ships in harbour with shelling from the landward side. After Weihaiwei's fall on February 2 and an easing in harsh winter conditions, Japanese troops pressed their advance into Manchuria.
The Chinese were forced to sue for peace and sign the Treaty of Shimonoseki in April 1895. Though nominally recognized as a sovereign state, Korea effectively became a Japanese protectorate, and China had to cede Taiwan, the Liaodong Peninsula, and the Pescadores to Japan "in perpetuity". In addition, China had to pay a war indemnity of 200 million taels, and open four more treaty ports to external trade. In the so-called Triple Intervention, Russia, France, and Germany forced Japan to return the Liaodong Peninsula, but China was obliged to pay a further 30 million taels.
This outcome enraged Chinese students and intensified pressure for more radical modernization. Shortly afterwards Sun Yat-sen founded the revolutionary republican movement which later became the Kuomintang. The war also encouraged further Japanese encroachments on Chinese territory.
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22-05-2005 20:33
I completely forgot about CHB - that guy lives in Islamic Cuckooland. I'm swapping PA for him! 
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