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mrmitchell
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Plato no "lib" here ever said China was perfect.
Besides, the reason people respect China is because 50 years ago, every Chinese had a rusty pitchfork and two beans. They have come a long way economically since then.
We have yet to see if socially and politically they'll keep advancing.
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Lancer
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Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:18
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I doubt they'll be ready for another 50 years. The Spratly islands thing bothers me quite a bit. China needs the oil and it's right there...
I don't know if the US would help the Philippines over the Spratlys particularly after the Phils kicked us out of Subic and withdrew from Iraq a month early. US might help though, which has to make the Chinese nervous about taking direct action.
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Oerdin
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of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:18
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You are forgetting the Japanese. The Japanese have the best claim on the land if one looks at the last 500 years which is where we should be looking. The Japanese also went and burned down an observation plateform the Chinese built in order to fabricate a claim on the islands. Japanese ships routinely patrol the islands as well and the Japanese have a research station there.
Last edited by Oerdin on 22-05-2005 at 22:02
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Lancer
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Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:18
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China and Vietnam have exchanged shots over the Spratlys. I believe China has come away better off in the exchange.
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C0ckney
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Big Up The Macedonian Massive
Apr 2000
time: 05:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Lancer
UR
3. Really believes what he says, which is to me, the hardest thing to contemplate. |
agree 100%, although he's not the only one. :/
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Agathon
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Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:18
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quote:
1.) China has invaded Vietnam, India, Tibet, and fought against Security council authorized UN troops...all since WWII. |
I'll answer all of these.
China invaded Vietnam 25 years ago. Today's PRC shares little in common with the China of 1989, let alone 1978.
China invaded Tibet because if they had not done so, India would have. This is what happens to weak states between two territorial rivals. I think this is terrible, but it is realpolitik.
China, India and Russia have had various skirmishes, but nothing particularly incendiary. Again, this was a long time ago.
quote:
2.) China has vilolently put down internal disent...to the point of turning the military on their own people. |
Again, this was 15 years ago. Here's an interesting thought. Say you want to liberalize your country and your economy. Do you do it piecemeal over a period of years, gradually transforming your country into what you would like? Or do you allow a group to overthrow the system and radically open it up to the world.
There's a former communist country that did that called Russia. China's patient series of reforms seems to be a far more sensible way of doing it – one that has protected the country from foreign meddling.
You simply cannot change a country that big with such an entrenched economic system overnight.
The real questions are: is China a better country than it was 15 years ago, and can we reasonably expect it to be a better country in 15 years time. I think the answer to the first is unquestionably "yes" and probably the same for the second.
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3.) There are political prisoners in China...lot's of them. |
Other than the fact that one nation's criminal is another's political prisoner, the United States has no business telling other countries about incarceration.
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4.) China is the only real friend to the world's most reviled regime. |
For reasons of political convenience. North Korea is a buffer against American encroachments against China. The Chinese aren't stupid, they know that American troops are in that area of the world to contain China. Americans are stupid if they think that American troops are there solely to protect South Korea and Japan against North Korea. The US has publicly stated that US troops will remain in Korea even if the two Koreas unite.
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5.) China seeks to threaten, bully, and invade a country that has become very democratic...all in the name of a nebulous "one China" policy...very reminesent of Hitler's words about Germany before WWII. |
China seeks to reclaim a renegade province. That same province has, for most of its history agreed with the "One China" policy with the sole difference being over who ran the one China.
It's all moot anyway. As China keeps liberalizing more and more Taiwanese are moving to the mainland and investing in China. The trend is towards economic integration and political integration will inevitably follow.
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6.) China now seeks to control the free flow of ideas on the internet through state sponsored "opinion forming". haha |
And other countries do not seek to propagandize?
The trend in China is towards freer flows of information. Technology will probably do more than anything else to promote this. In 20 years no one will be worrying about it.
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Yeah...they are getting better, but they ain't even close to benign. If they can be held in check another 100 years then they may be able to join a free world community, but that day is far in the future. |
This is a parochial American view. It is not the view of most of the world.
quote:
Until then, a repressive government that has their kind of power is a threat to us all...not just the US. |
How so? I can think of absolutely no reason why China, which has radically tied itself to international markets would want to rock the boat. Their policies are working.
The United States sees China as an emerging strategic rival. Hence, American elites play up the Chinese threat and the American media follows along. Other nations with similar interests act similarly. No one else really cares.
If you can't see this, then you need to move countries to get a better perspective.
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22-05-2005 21:00
.
) to the dark masses of the world by force, if they won't see the light on their own. So what's the problem?
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