15-06-2005 21:48									#31
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

hey, just learned that if you only have one city, barbarians are defeated by any unit defending the city? This would explain my warriors saving the city against archers and even legions, but I spent a lot of time and money rushing better defense units...

Anyway, I've been saving and reloading at different decision points, so might just go back a few.

RJM, I admit that I am much more nervous about the next 1000 years than the previous. It's not many turns, and I feel like a lot has to happen.

let's civ on

	16-06-2005 00:14									#32
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Yes, this is another peculiar safeguard the game provides to protect your first city!

	16-06-2005 01:23									#33
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

RJM,

Yes take what time you need. I know I am not in a terrible rush to move this game along, and it seems like solo is willing to be patient as well. I have many other projects that I need to be working on besides playing OCC and some extra time would do them good. Some extra time to think about my next turnset is also welcome. I think that things are set up for a very good landing date in this game, should I play well.

Solo,
Yes, bribing the two settlers is probably the best move I have made in this game so far. I have already reaped some benefits from this move, and am set up to get even more over the rest of the game. I really enjoy these settlers being unsupported. Once I start growing, Madrid can pop out a settler or two and allow for even faster terrain development. I will have to remember this trick for other games where I share a continent with an opposing civ.

I am not sure how much benefit the road bonus to Ulundi will be. The caravans I delivered to it already were not that much bigger than those to Zimbabwe, and Zimbabwe is likely to overtake Ulundi in payments soon, as the AI avoids using a wine square like the plague.

biru biru,
It looks like you have a promising OCC start going. I look forward to seeing how you handle the next 1000 years. Remember this is a best ball game, so feel free to pick up a 1000AD save from solo, RJM, or myself and play through to 500AD. Once completed you can post a log of the turnset and your 500AD save. Continuing your own save is perfectly acceptable as well.

StuporMan

	16-06-2005 10:44									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by solo biru biru, RJM, We will wait for you to play up to 500 BC if you are busy and need more time.

Things went well yesterday and I'm hoping that I should be able to play and post over the weekend.

RJM at Sleeper's

	16-06-2005 10:54									#35
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

It is good to see there are still games going on. I have looked at the nice OCC start, Solo has provided and couldn´t resist. I came a bit late, so I played through to 500 BC. In the beginning I took the risk to tip a second hut while working on my size 1 settler and had a lucky result: Literacy! This set the path for an early republic game. After building MPE I had a few slow turns due to the lack of gifts. But the turns until 500 BC were going very well. In 450 ST will be build and sanitation is allready reseached. Vikings are researching seafaring, which should be ready in time. By far the best start I had in an OCC.

BC
4000 hut: chariot, Madrid
3750 Alphabet, hut Writing
3400 size 1 settler
3350 size 2, 3
3300 warrior
3150 CB
3000 Sioux destroyed by barbarians
2800 Library
2700 Code of Laws
2500 Temple
2400 Mongols destroyed by barbarians
2300 Literacy
2000 Spanish pathetic
1900 Republic discovered
1850 Republic
1700 size 5
1600 Currency
1350 Trade
1300 MPE, Zulus, give Republic, peace, refuse to trade techs, Celts, Republic for Map Making, techs, alliance, maps, 50g, Persians, peace, maps, no alliance, Indians, give techs, peace, no alliance, maps, Greeks and Vikings are icy and at war with each other,
1250 Vikings, alliance, maps, give The Wheel, Zulus, maps, alliance, no gift, Greeks, peace maps, without gifts I switch to 70% gold
1200 dye
1050 hides
1000 Persians, alliance, no gift
950 hides, Greeks make peace with Vikings, alliance, no gift
900 Celts 25g, Zulus 75g, hides
875 start on research again
825 silk
775 trireme, barbarian leader 150g, Celts, trade for Mystizism, 50g,
725 Marketplace, we love, Zulu trade for Iron Working, Greeks, trade for Masonry, 100g
675 Philosophy, Medicine, dye to Ulundi (d) 172g, Vikings 250g, Persians 25g
650 settler
575 Construction, hides to Zimbabwe (d) 202g
525 Engineering, dye to Ulundi (d) 172g, Greeks 150g

Attachment: ph_b0500.sav
This has been downloaded 2 time(s).

	17-06-2005 00:34									#36
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I thought you might show up Zenon! Early Republic was nice after Literacy from a hut and now we have another very competitive 500 BC result.

You have probably noticed already, but I'll mention that StuporMan's supply and demand calculator works great and makes me want to find another EL start to make more use out of it.

	17-06-2005 01:07									#37
	Increase Your PM Length

Thanks for the plug solo!

Zenon,

It is good to see another person join in our OCC fun. It will be interesting to see how getting Republic early will affect the games outcome. It seems like you have had some bad luck already with barbarians killing off two civilizations before 2000BC! Hopefully this will not hurt your attempt too badly.

If you are interested in the calculator I made, let me recommend that you scroll down to the 1.011 version. Version 0.91 works great for a single city, but version 1.011 lets you track all the cities from all the civs in a single game (up to 255 cities which I believe is the games limitation as well).

As soon as I get the documentation done for version 1.011 I will go ahead and move that version to the top of the thread.

StuporMan

	17-06-2005 01:46									#38
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Summary of my 1000 bc to 500 bc; Built Marco Polo, changed to Republic, and started wroking on caravans (no trade routes yet though!)

4000bc - 2000 bc log:

4000: 2 NON settlers; tip hut,
NON horse; found city;
disband horse for shields;
building settler. Using whale,
gold 1/turn, science 1/5turns
3950: choose alphabet
3900: start building roads in grassland
3700: mining grapes. change rate to 50%/50% for one extra gold
3650: buy settler (save 1 turn) for all
8 gold in treasury
3600: change to warrior, no loss shields
-will be done in 3 turns, just in
time for size 2. settler goes to work
-tax back to 40%/60%
3450: build warriors (police)
3400: finish irrigation
3350: size 2, settler joins city, unhappy
but warrior done next turn
3300: size 3 city, no unhappiness,
2 police. building warriors
3250: finish mines. working silk and mines,
no food; move workers to food from silk,
will get next tech, finish warior anyway.
3200; discover CB, start CofL. build warrior (explore)
workers move to silk, mines. no food surplus. tech
every 7 turns. start police #3
3100: NON settler joins city, size 4. 3 police. try -1 food
for a few turns to focus trade. start collossus
2900: 1 food left, discover CofL, workers moved from
silk to grassland, no growth. start rsrching Monarchy.
(in 10 turns)
2850: barbs land. first hut
2800: tip hut, 50 gold
2700: survived archer attack w/ warriors
2600: meet zulus. trade CofL for iron working
don't trade for warior code.
2350: barbs are back.
2300: discover monarchy. revolution
2250: monarchy established (oedo year)
2200: legions land near city. capture leader. 1 entertainer.
2150: barbs seem to be going the
other way. complete collosus for 220 gold.
find Ulundi (Mongols demand withdrawl.)
2100: explorer withdrawn. warrior field
sacrifice to slow down legions.
warrior disbands and 41 gold for phalanx.
2050: start legion
2000: monarchy. 10 shields per turn. collossus built.
legion. income 6, discoveries 6.
hostile barbarians in the area.
city size 4. no improvements.
using special resource squares, no surplus food.

2000 bc - 1000 bc log

1850: dscvr writing.
1800: leader captured. disband warrior. buy library
1700: hut, 50 gold, buy temple
1650: zulus declare war
1350: hut, NON settlers. buy marketplace
1250: dscvr trade
1100: love king day

1000 bc - 500 bc log

975: learn literacy

875: peace, allianc w/ zulus. no gold., no maps. trade for horse and warrior code
750: build third caravan. no triremes yet.
use them to build marco polo
700: disband units, buy marco for 60 gold
675: celts trade for republic, wheel, allianc, 50 gold, maps
chinese trade for mystisism. alliance. no gold/maps
suix trade for map making. alliance. no gold. maps
vikings; I pay 50 tribute, peace, trade for masonry
greeks; trade myst, math. alliance, maps, 150 gold.
650: science dropped to 21 turns! power moderate, no tech gifting possible
r EP. we love king day. sioux out of game, indians take their place
trireme w/ diplo set out. start caravans
550: rush caravan w/ all money
525: cancel love king at size 7. 20% luxuries.

	20-06-2005 06:53									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Alright, I payed mine way all the way through. definitely not a record, and maybe not even respectable, but I learned a lot with it and I'm sure that I can do better next time. Launched a 15/4/3 spaceship in 1818, to arrive in 1837.

Spent the middle game as a republic, trading for a xome techs, but mostly tech gifting to keep my own rate down, and using caravans for extra beakers and cash.

In the late game I used engineers to build farmland and railroads to max city growth, and changed to democracy. At times the 100% option is what let me keep my advances comming every two turns.

When it was time to start building my ship, I had a few innefficient turns (took two turns each for a couple of structurals), but then switched to freight and used engineers to change farmland to forests. When I was really ready, I was able to use gold (tax rate 100% gold, a few specialist scientists working on fusion power) and caravans to rush components and modules every turn, then just as they were finished, and I was broke, I was getting 80 shields per turn to bust out structurals. Did get some starvation unfortunately.

Things to do better next time:
- sanitation earlier
- better job w/ caravans and freight, especially keeping supply unlocked
- know which advances I need, and holding off trading
until I really need another civs tech.
- never broke the 'advance every 2 turns', although I did use caravans to get an advance every turn for a while.

Tricks I learned from you guys, or really used for the first time:
- tech gifting! I had read about this, but never really tried it.
-Oedeo Years! perfect revolutions at Monarchy, Republic, and Democracy
- incremental rushing; although I've done this, I used it obsesively this game
- Size one settler trick. cool head start and learned it here. Thanks!

Had a lot of fun, and looking forward to seeing how some of you vets do. Thanks for the help!

	20-06-2005 10:20									#40
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Here's my effort through to 500 BC. Not very inspired, but chugging along.

1000 BC Everything looks OK, so hit enter; complete market
975 BC increase taxation to 70%; Zulus discover writing
950 BC we swap for writing which we give to Vikinmgs, but no alliance
925 BC tip hut for barbarian horseman.
800 BC 25 from Persians allows completion of caravan
750 BC Dye->Ulundi (d) 128
650 BC complete 4th van for collosus
625 BC complete Collosus
575 BC Hides->Ulundi (d) 132; we give writing to Celts who give us 150. Literacy->Astronomy
550 BC we give literacy to the Zulus who give us 50; swap with Vikings for construction

Attachment: rjmb500.sav
This has been downloaded 3 time(s).

	21-06-2005 17:41									#41
	Remove this text

Solo and StuporMan,

thanks for the welcome. It was fun to start an OCC again. At the moment I am traveling, so I will probably come late for the next turns.

I will certainly try the calculator when I am back. My respect for taking on this tricky issue, StuporMan. I am sure this will become a very useful tool for all OCC and ELG players.

Zenon

	21-06-2005 22:05									#42
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Due to some time restrictions this week I went ahead and played through to 1AD a little early. Here is the log.

500: Greek: 100g, Viking 150g
475: Food
450: Food, Celts: 50g, Persians 50g, Sioux 50g
425: Food, hut->Archer, barbs land
400: Food
375: Astronomy, Food, barb leader 150g, hut->Archer (none)
350: Food, Sioux 50g, Hides to Zimbabwe(d) 228g, Vikings: Trade for Seafaring, gift Horseback Riding.
325: Shakespeare's Theatre
300: Aqueduct, size 8, Zulu 50g, Celts 100g
275: Food, size 9, Sioux 50g
250: Food, size 10, University, Silk(d) to Little Bighorn 352g, Hides to Ulundi 260g
225: Food, size 11, The Wheel, Hides to Ulundi 292g, Hides to Zimbabwe 312g
200: Food, size 12 (changed from Moderate to strong and missed Engineering by 10 beakers )
175: Food, Engineering, Celts land, Zulus get Iron Working ,
Trade with Zulus for Iron Working,
give Persians tech,
Hides to Zimbabwe 312g, Hides to Ulundi 308g
150: Food, Sanitation, Celts: 50g,
125: Copernicus' Observatory, Greeks -> Give Techs, share maps
100: Sewer System, Zulu -> give techs, share maps, Hides to Ulundi 308g
75: Bank, Bridge Building, size 13
50: University, size 14
25: Harbor,
size 15
AD1: Dye, Theory of Gravity, size 16

Overall a very good turnset, I had 3 1 turn techs from trade, and managed to get Iron Working from the Zulus. I was afraid I was going to have to research Warrior code first! I wished I had been a little more careful with my tech path so I could have got Sanitation in time to keep We Love Growth going up to size 20. I was also dissapointed to have to take on the carrying cost of Horseback riding, but no one else was interested in researching the Wheel. I also probably wasted my time mining the Wine for the Zulus, I would probably have the road to Zimbabwe completed by now otherwise. I do not know whether or not it was smarter to go for the delivery bonus route over the persistent bonus, I might have time to complete both before I launch, but first I must complete updating Madrid.

Zenon,

Thanks for the compliment! I hope you find the calculator to be a useful tool.

RJM,
Not a bad turnset at all. It was an interesting move to wrap around the island to pick up the hut! It was most unfortunate that it ended up being a barbarian.

biru biru,
A very good landing date for your first OCC. It looks like you already have some ideas for your next attempt.

I look forward to seeing where everyone is at 1AD!

StuporMan

Attachment: sm_a1.sav
This has been downloaded 2 time(s).

	22-06-2005 02:45									#43
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Here is my own log up to 1 AD:

475 Sanitation, size 12

Zulus – trade for Mathematics & Astronomy, trade maps
Persians – trade for Banking, share maps
Vikings – give tech, 50g

With Sanitation just in time, I can relax research a bit and also pick up some techs the AI have researched in the meantime. With all the trade routes I’ve given their cities, the Zulus have become my best research assistant.

450 sewer system, size 13
425 beads, Celts – give tech, size 14
400 size 15, Vikings – give tech, share maps
375 size 16, barb leader, 150g
350 bank, size 17
325 size 18
300 coal, size 19, beads(d) to Ulundi, 256g
Greeks – trade for University, give tech

275 hides, size 20

Now who said hides have to stop at size 7?

250 hides, size 21

About the quickest I’ve grown to size 21 in OCC.

225 hides, we love cancelled
200 hides
175 Economics,

Zulus – trade for Bridge Building and Iron Working, share maps
Celts – give tech, 50g
Sioux – 100g

150 stock exchange
125 wool
100 food
75 food, hut – legion
50 settlers, hides(d) to Zimbabwe, 320g

Another settler is needed as I am still behind a bit on development.

25 food, hides(d) to Ulundi, 280g
1 Colossus, Theory of Gravity, Zulus – give tech, share maps

A good turn set, and I think I should have all scientific improvements and wonders in place by 200 AD. This game is still ahead of last game’s pace, though I’m making a lot less gold.

Attachment: soa1.sav
This has been downloaded 3 time(s).

	24-06-2005 10:39									#44
	Suffering from ads?

I played through to AD 1 - nothing very much happened. I am way behind Solo and StuporMan, but getting there slowly.

500 BC hit enter
350 BC Zulus discover philosophy and medicine
325 BC we swap with Zulus for philosophy and medicine
275 BC Hides-Zimbabwe (d) 164; Hides-Ulundi (d) 160 astronomy->engineering
150 BC Hides-Ulundi (d) 160; Hides-Ulundi (d) 160 engineering->navigation
125 BC Hides supply has reapeared in Apolyton - I expect I should understand why, but I don't.
75 BC Hides-Ulundi (d) 160; Hides-Ulundi (d) 160
AD 1 save

RJM at Sleeper's

PS I have two AD 1 saves on this machine (I suspect the other is from our previous game.) I hope I've attached the correct one (I can't check as I don't have Civ II on this machine.)

Attachment: rjmad1.sav
This has been downloaded 2 time(s).

	25-06-2005 18:28									#45
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

StuporMan,

I very much like what you were able to do with this turn set. That delivery bonus and the extra hides caravans certainly paid off. You already have Copernicus and a university, both of which I still lack. (I should have built Copernicus in 1 AD before building the Colossus, but two caravans close to being delivered made me pick the Colossus).

I am just starting my road to the Zulus, and leaving Zulu settlers alone has left me a lot to do, as they have only mined the wine and have only completed a few useful roads. I am ahead a bit on population and have worked the swamp and jungle in time to make them productive, but I have to congratulate you on doing a better job during this phase of the game. You may grab a tech lead shortly that might be hard to overcome.

	30-06-2005 00:18									#46
	Get a bigger avatar today!

On to 500 AD:

20 wool
40 coal, hides(d) to Bapedi, 336g
60 food

Zulus – trade for Feudalism
Vikings & Persians – give tech, share maps

80 food, Chemistry
100 Copernicus
120 university built, bribe barb legion, 82g
140 coal, wool(d) to Bapedi, 332g; hides(d) to Bapedi, 332g
160 wool, Invention
180 Isaac Newton’s College
200 Gunpowder

Now it’s a tech every two turns by city science, but I suspect StuporMan has been doing this for awhile now.

220 wool,

Zulus – trade for Navigation
Vikings – give tech
Sioux – give tech, 50g

240 Explosives
260 coal
280 Engineers, Democracy
300 Engineers, govt. to Democracy; Sioux – give tech
320 we love resumes

Two settlers are exchanged for engineers who will make quick work of the roads to the Zulu cities.

340 food, size 19, Metallurgy

Zulus – trade for Physics
Celts – give tech, 150g
Greeks – give tech, share maps

360 food, size 20, Sioux – give tech, 150g
380 Steam Engine, size 21
400 food, size 22
420 Railroad, size 23
440 Engineers, road completed to Bapedi, but another engineer is needed.
460 we love cancelled, Industrialization,

road completed to Ulundi,
Zulus – give tech, share maps

480 food, road completed to Zimbabwe
500 oil, Magnetism

Now it’s just a matter of converting the roads to railroads in order to collect that route bonus. I think they’ll be done on schedule.

The Zulus continue to learn at a fast pace, since the road bonus is working in both directions. It's a good thing, since the other AI have been almost worthless in helping to research techs.

Attachment: soa500.sav
This has been downloaded 4 time(s).

Last edited by solo on 30-06-2005 at 00:26

	30-06-2005 19:30									#47
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Solo, I played enough turns of your last poasted save to experiment with finishing the railroads to the Zulu's. The increase in trade per route was quite amazing.

	30-06-2005 21:35									#48
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Yes, with the benefit of these rail bonuses, most SSC's produce enough beakers to sustain 1 tech turns. Without them, 1 tech turns are usually just tantalizingly out of reach.

	01-07-2005 01:26									#49
	Put an end to popups!

Thank you solo for your kind words, I am not sure if I have come up with the insurmountable tech lead that you suspected, but your faith in me is appreciated.

I have achieved a small tech lead over your position, but you amazingly are much closer to getting the rail bonus to the Zulu. I am still a turn away from a full road bonus to the Zulu! Once your rail route is completed you should have enough city science to pull off enough one turn techs to catch back up. Especially since I am still behind in city size due to some ill timed pillaging by some barbarians . Still I am very pleased with my results from this past turnset. I am now thinking a landing in the 1500's is possible whereas at the beginning of the turnset I was shooting for the 1600's.

I had to think long and hard about almost every turn in this last turnset, but the extra effort was worth it. Here is my log.

1: Sioux 50g, Zulu give tech share maps (will not give Economics to get Coal in demand)
20: Food, Sioux 25g
40: Food, Celts 25g, Sioux 50g
60: Food, Chemistry, sell temple, Sioux 50g, Celts trade 50g back and forth
80: Newton's, tech every 2 turns, Celts 25g, Sioux 50g
100: Size 21, Dye, Economics, Barbs Land
120: Settlers, Size 20, Celts 25g, Sioux 50g
140: Bribe barb trireme, Celts 25g
160: Wool, Democracy, Barb Leader 150g, Celts 25g, Sioux 50g
180: Coal
200: Food, Navigation, Celts 50g, Revolution!
220: Food, Democracy, Dye to Bapedi(d) 236g, Sioux 50g, Persians give tech, share maps
240: Food, Physics
260: Food,
280: Food, Steam Engine, Wool to Bapedi(d) 242g, Celts 50g, Sioux 50g, Persians 50g
300: Food, Magnetism, Persians 50g
320: Leonardo's Workshop, Celts 50g, Sioux 50g, Persians 50g
Yes, you read that right, I built LW in an OCC. I decided it was worth it to upgrade my Settlers to Engineers and keep them None supported, and to upgrade my ships and caravans. I believe that this ended up being to my benefit in this game, particularly once I bribed a third trireme (from the Sioux) a few turns later.
340: RailRoad, Wool, Persians 50g
360: Dye, Celts 50g, Sioux 50g, Persians 50g
380: Food, Explosives, Persians 50g
400: Food, Vikings give tech, share maps, Celts 50g, Sioux 50g
420: Food, Industrialization, Dye to Zimbabwe(d) 236g, Wool to Bapedi(d) 172g, Wonder-Flip
440: Wool, Metallurgy, Vikings give tech, share maps
460: Oil
480: Food, Corporation, Coal to Zimbabwe(d) 442, Oil to Zimbabwe 177g
500: Electricity, Coal, Celts 100g, Sioux 100g, Persians 50g

I originally was concerned about sacrificing so much to get Isaac Newton's College so early in the turnset. It cost me heavily in gold and I was dancing with bankruptcy almost the whole time. Fortunately I had a few rich financeers who kept me afloat during the hard times. I believe there was only 1 turn where I did not produce anything in Madrid, which is not too bad all things considered.

Like solo I have also found that the Zulus have been a wonderful research partner. It is not often that you can get both Invention and Gunpowder from the AI, and at this stage any free tech from the AI is a rare and wonderful gift. Unfortunately I am finding that they are researching Communism, which means that MPE will be expiring soon. This will make trading techs with the AI much more difficult, I will have to pay close attention to the tech messages from now on.

I still think my best move in this whole game was bribing the settlers early on. It cost me heavily during a time when gold was hard to come by, but it has already more than paid for itself twice over. I will have to remeber this trick for other games as well as I believe it has shaved at least 10 turns off my landing date.

I now have to get back to planning my next round as it looks like it will require as much thought as this last one, and possibly more. The difficulty will be to not get to Space Flight so fast that I cannot build all the parts in a timely manner. I am already thinking I will have to buy Apollo's outright and will be relying on economy to allow me to buy the Modules and Components.

Good Luck all, I will see you on AC!

StuporMan

Attachment: sm_a500.sav
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).

	01-07-2005 04:34									#50
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Actually I was hoping you wouldn't think of building Leonardo's, which was the best move in your situation. This gave you a lead in producing freights, with several of your trades producing 1 tech turns, which contributed to your present tech lead.

In OCC, you can only build one thing a turn, so every OCC build is very precious. Leonardo's enabled you to build more freights for trade instead of "wasting" turns building unit upgrades. It's not really so unusual to see this wonder built in an OCC game.

A landing before 1600 is very likely. I know from having already completed my own game, but I was a bit pinched for cash around the time that Apollo had to be built. It is in addition to several other costly city improvements needed for building a ship. Fortunately, in OCC you have to take at least 21 turns to build a SS, so this allows a lot of time to build up some cash for the most expensive parts. The rail bonus will contribute a lot here when research is done and taxes can be maxed out.

Too bad about Communism a little earlier than usual. The AI are usually good at providing Feudalism, Chivalry and Conscription if you feed them the right prerequisites and are able to monitor what they are researching to make sure they don't waste a research opportunity. Unfortunately they are also uncannily good at learning techs that expire thehuman player's wonders. I am convinced they are given more than a few bonus beakers behind the scenes when researching techs like Communism and Flight.

Also too bad about your AI problems. I had a major problem with them later in my own game. Dealing with that threat added a few turns onto my game and distracted many of my units that could have been put to better use.

	01-07-2005 05:30									#51
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Actually I was hoping you wouldn't think of building Leonardo's, which was the best move in your situation... It's not really so unusual to see this wonder built in an OCC game.

Aww you weren't afraid I was going to beat you too badly were you? And here I thought this was a friendly competition.

I guess on maps where you need many support units for your OCC as is the case in this one, Leo's would not be that uncommon. In OCC's where road/rail bonuses cannot be achieved, however, most of the time it would appear that Leo's is an unnecessary step (provided you do not bribe a large ship chain). I just did not remember it in the standard list of OCC wonders and it was a "new to me" accomplishment. As was playing with rediculously low sums of gold in reserve. There were many times when I relied on getting a cash gift to float my turn expenses.

As to Communism, I think you are correct in the extra beakers for wonder killers. They seem to be chosen often and finish faster than other techs! Fortunately this will only add between 2 and 6 turns to the game and I may still get lucky with an AI happening to choose the correct techs without any "guidance."

Other than that and a pillaged square or two I have not had much to complain about from the AI. I should be up to size 23 in a few turns without loss of research and I am hoping to get some 1 tech turns as soon as superhighways are built.

I will find it interesting to see if I can keep this pace up. I am fairly confident in beating 1600, but I am not sure I can beat 1500 on this attempt. I will try my best to come as close as I can though!

StuporMan

	01-07-2005 11:37									#52
	Get a bigger avatar today!

You guys are way ahead of me, but I'll keep chugging along. This set of turns was fairly typical of the mid game doldrums that I frequently find myself in. I'm not sure that waiting for someone else to discover the republic was a good idea.

AD 1 hit enter
AD 100 complete 4th van for copes; hides-ulundi(u) 92; start to build copes and realise I need 6 vans, so rush it instead
AD 120 Navigation->sanitation; hides-hlobane(u) 30
AD 160 swap with Zulus for republic
AD 220 revolt to republic
AD 280 rush shakes
AD 380 sanitation->physics; swap with persians for university
AD 440 Physics->gravity
AD 500 hides(u) Susa 226; hides(u) Susa 226; stop celebrating at size 15

Attachment: rjma500.sav
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).

	04-07-2005 22:56									#53
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Next stop, 1000 AD:

520 Darwin’s Voyage, The Corporation, Electricity
540 Refining
560 coal
580 oil, Steel
600 wool, Celts – 50g, Greeks – 100g, Sioux – 150g
620 transport, Combustion, Zulus – give tech, share maps

Time for some overseas trade to build up cash.

640 factory
660 Automobile, coal(d) to Little Bighorn, 570g

It will take two more turns to finish the railroad. From now on, techs will being coming every turn.

680 superhighways, Mass Production, wool(d) to Slim Buttes, 888g
700 gold, Atomic Theory
720 Mass Transit, Electronics, railroad completed almost on schedule
740 hides, Nuclear Fission, hides to Zimbabwe, 226g

Greeks – trade for Chivalry

Hides will not last long, but the rail provides instant deliveries. I line up idle units along this route at strategic points to block access to the Zulu units that would just love to hop on and block the freights I want to send to Zimbabwe each turn.

760 hides, Nuclear Power,

Hides to Zimbabwe, 226g
Vikings – trade for Conscription, give tech, share maps

780 hides, Leadership, hides to Zimbabwe, 226g
800 hides, The Laser, hides to Zimbabwe, 226g
820 gold, Tactics
840 beads, Machine Tools, beads(d) to Ulundi, 420g
860 Nuclear Plant, Mobile Warfare, gold(d) to Zimbabwe, 678g
880 food, Miniaturization

The Zulus learn Flight, spoiling the Colossus and delaying Computers by a turn. Their ability to learn techs was surprising, even though they had 9 juiced up trade routes to boost beakers. After my game I checked their cities. They had built a library in Ulundi, and further checks of earlier saves revealed that this was done very early on. I was also fortunate that they did not get sidetracked into researching an unwanted tech I could not supply.

900 gold
920 Offshore Platform, Computers
940 Zulus – trade for Flight

Now my bad luck with barbs starts off. A barb frigate appears 2 tiles away from Madrid. This usually means many good mounted attackers, who are probably willing to jump next Madrid and capture it if I am not careful. So I line up my engineers and any other spare units along the coastal tiles to prevent access. At least the engineers can continue to mine grasslands into forest to boost shields, but sooner or later this frigate must be destroyed.

960 wool, Radio, gold(d) to Zimbabwe, 326g, wool to Zimbabwe, 109g
980 Advanced Flight
1000 gold, gold(d) to Zimbabwe, 326g

Things had gone very well so far this game, but this was about to change. In addition to the barb frigate already parked next to Madrid, the following turn greeted me with a major barbarian land invasion. They appeared just east of Madrid and they took delight spoiling a lot of my trade arrows by jumping onto city tiles. This ended up adding on a few more turns of research and spoiled any chances of a pre-1500 launch.

(Note: I will be away, staring next week, so am posting results in time to finish by the time I leave. Otherwise I would want to wait for everyone to catch up before moving on.)

Attachment: soa1000.sav
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).

	06-07-2005 23:57									#54
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Here is my log up to 1000AD:

520: Hides,
540: Hides, Refining, Zulus get Communism, well that was fast! Sioux: Give Techs, Share Maps, 200g
560: Darwin's, Steel, Combustion, Celts 50g, Greek trade for Fuedalism, Zulu give all but Combustion (no flight for Zulu! Not until I get computers at least.) same with Vikings
580: Automobile, Hides to Zimbabwe 183g
600: SuperHighways, Chivalry
620: Electronics, Hides to Zimbabwe 306g
640: Hides, WLTPD, Conscription, Coal to Zimbabwe (d) 764g
660: Hides, Leadership, size 21, Hides to Zimbabwe 306g
680: Hides, Tactics, size 22, hides to Zimbabwe 306g
700: Hides, Mass Production, size 23, hides to Zimbabwe 302g, Zulu trade for Communism
720: Hides, Machine Tools, WLTPD ends, hides to Zimbabwe 302g
740: Hides, Minaturization, hides to Zimbabwe 302g, Zulu trade for Mobile Warfare, give tech, Vikings give tech
760: Hides, Computers
780: Hides, Atomic Theory
800: Hides, Nuclear Fission
820: Gold, Nuklear Power
840: Beads, Laser
860: Factory, Robotics, Sioux 250g
880: Nuclear Plant, Flight, Wool(d) to Wounded Knee 644g
900: Offshore Platform, Radio, Beads to Little Bighorn 210g, Celts 100g
920: Manufacturing Plant, Advanced Flight, Gold to Zimbabwe 480g, Wonder-Flip
940: Gold, Rocketry, Gold to Zimbabwe 480g, Celts 100g, Persians 150g
960: Coal, Space Flight, Coal to Zimbabwe 400g, Celts 100g
980: Apollo Program, Celts 50g, Persians 150g
1000: Structural, Plastics, Sioux 250g, Persians Warrior Code , Vikings trade for Polytheism

I did not record every time I gave techs to the Zulu and Vikings. I pretty much did every turn during this phase up until Space Flight was acquired. I really had to scrounge for the money to pay for Apollo. Had I discovered Space flight on a later turn I could have converted my two hides frieghts into two gold frieghts (using wonder flipping) and would have easily had enough money to complete it. As it was I got there so fast I had to sell off my sewer system and beg for gold to get enough to build Apollo the turn after Space Flight was discovered.

I was very fortunate not to have any barbarian problems during this segment as this could have wrecked my very tight budget (I had under 25 gold after buying Apollo IIRC).

This turnset went very well. I actually avereaged greater than a tech per turn during this period (due to Darwins and tech trades). I also was very lucky to have the Zulus research Mobile Warfare in time for a trade. This I believe negated any loss of turns due to Communism obsoleting MPE. Barring any unfortunate disasters, I should land just after 1400 , which is far earlier than I would have ever dreamed possible on this map. I credit this to two unexpected blessings. The first is all the hides vans and frieghts I was able to produce throughout the game. The second is the amazing rate at which the Zulus were able to learn technologies for me to trade.

I am quite relieved to (hopefully) have the most difficult turns behind me. There for a while I agonized over every last action, knowing that on some turns one misstep could cost two or three turns. Now all that is left is to play out the remaining turns building the rest of the SS and waiting for it to arrive.

StuporMan

Attachment: sm_a1000.sav
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	07-07-2005 01:37									#55
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Wow, nice job StuporMan! You might have a slight problem scraping up enough gold to build a SS part per turn, but even with a delay of a turn or two you are sure to land before 1500. Congrats on the best OCC game I have seen to date!

Your success is due to expanded trade, especially when you were at size 7 and again during the Rennaissance when a few trades gave you 1 tech per turn. Bribing Zulu settlers was another very smart move.

Things have really changed from the old way of playing OCC, where trade was almost non-existant and when we would accumulate caravans and freights to build wonders and SS parts. By Space Flight we used to have 20+ freights hanging around. Not any more!

	07-07-2005 03:07									#56
	Full PM-box? Change here!

i've never played a OCC before...does anyone have a link to the guideline thread?

	07-07-2005 04:23									#57
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There is a link from the Great Library and from my strategy guide in the strategy forum.

	07-07-2005 05:12									#58
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quote: Originally posted by solo Wow, nice job StuporMan! You might have a slight problem scraping up enough gold to build a SS part per turn, but even with a delay of a turn or two you are sure to land before 1500. Congrats on the best OCC game I have seen to date!

Wow! Thank you Solo!
I am not sure I would say it was the best OCC game so far. Didnt you manage a pre AD landing in one and didn't samson finish one in 25AD or am I mistaken?

Since I was so close to launching I went ahead and played through. I was very fortunate and got a few gifts from the AI that enabled me to build a SS part per turn. Unfortunately I was not the only one who was interested in getting to AC. It was a horse race to AC winner take all! However, since I am evil and contrary I will wait to let you know who won the race until everyone has posted their 1000AD save. Either way, someone lands before 1420AD!

Heh, maybe we can start a new variant, first one to get the AI to AC wins

StuporMan

	07-07-2005 05:44									#59
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Samson's game was an EL game on a small map.

The one where I had a BC landing was done with an edited map full of rivers, huts and ideal SSC sites. A different game altogether based on tipping many huts before founding the SSC.

This game was from a random start on a medium map.

There were other games in the past with earlier landing dates, but they were on edited maps or involved some other special starting advantage.

	07-07-2005 10:31									#60
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Brilliant job, StuporMan

I'd like to see you have a go at an EL game next.

RJM at Sleeper's