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solo
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Lowell, MA USA
Jan 2001
time: 05:23
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This one features 2 silk, a wine and a whale, all within view at the start! Other settings are the same, except that we are playing with Spain and that this start came with one free tech: Bronze Working. This should provide some interesting opportunities! There are no restrictions: i.e. all exploits are allowed.
We can play until 2000 B.C. and then compare. Afterwards players may choose whichever save they want to use during the next stage.
 Attachment: ph_b4000.sav
This has been downloaded 26 time(s).
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solo
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Lowell, MA USA
Jan 2001
time: 05:23
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Reloads used to alter random game events are not allowed, which is the usual policy in our games in this forum. Any use of the cheat menu is taboo, too.
Exploits are allowed, i.e. all the little tricks we use to exploit quirks or patterns of the game which we have previously observed or discovered.
Time limits are usually a week or so for each stage, and depend on who is playing and how soon they all finish.
Don't forget to enjoy your games!
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rjmatsleepers
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I've downloaded the start position, but I'm not sure when I'll get a chance to play it. Pity about Bronze Working - otherwise it could be played as an EL game.
RJM at Sleeper's
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Grigor
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Oberlin, Ohio
Jan 2000
time: 00:23
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I hav played to 2000 BC. I will be out nxt week, so please continue without me. I tried Smash's early wonder plan after th size 1 settler - maybe these plans don't combine so well...
Log:
Preliminary observations: Excllent starting site. We used to pplay only these kind of sites for OCC...
Size 1 settler plan must be correct here with the silk to work (meaning there is no cost to science). Should the build be
(a) warrior (explore) - settler - warrior - temple or
(b) settler - warrior - warrior - temple??
The extra exploration turns must be balanced by the extra settler turns before the size 1 settler gets folded into the city the minute it grows to size 2 (and gets the martial law for size 3)
Pop hut first. That will determine it.
4000BC Hut: NONE horse. So it is Settler build first. Much as I would like to build a NONE army, it will be too slow to justify delaying the city. Madrid founded. Working Whale
3950 Researching CB.
3900* roading silk
3850 Hut: Horse (Madrid). PRB warrior. working silk
3750 CB=>Alph Silk has a road
3500* Hut: Archer - moves to fortify city, so no warriors are necessary after all.
3350 Size 1 settler built.
3250 second silk roaded.
3200 ALph=>CoL(33). Zulus: peace, no tech trade.
3150 Hut: NONE Chariot
3050 Zulus ask chariot to withdraw - back to home city. Thanks! I needed to investigate in the other direction.
3000 Barb Archers near Zimbabwe. We will observe.
2900* Zulus develop Currency - Oh Boy!
2850 Hut: CoL!! Ulundi dizcovered. Wine Hill mined - time to fold the settler into city.
2800 Researching Monarchy. (30/48) - I will miss the Oedo year by 1 Beaker! Temple built. Decision point: Monarchy soon, then trade for Currency, and Trade. With a mined wine hill, a whale, and 2 silks, Colossus should be fast. I'll try that.
2750 Settler Joins City
2700* The sad 1-beaker shortfall coms to pass. set workers for a few turns of food.
2600 Monarchy => Currency. Zulus: Trade for Currency.
2550 Trade not offered. Looks like Colossus was a good bet. Research Writing
2500* Revolution
2450 Gov: Monarchy. Madrid Size 3, 9 beakers, 4 gold, 8 shields.
2350 Zulu Barbs finally destroyed. No leader possibility.
2150 Hut: Madrid Archers. Good for disbanding.
2100* Writing=>Trade (84) - will discover in 10 turns (1600BC).
2000 Most Powerful: 2. Spanish 3. Zulu. Chariot returns home after completing Island Exploration. Archer disbands. Treasury: 47g.
Colossus: 129/200 - will build in 1500.
So the actual build order was settler-Temple-Colossus.
 Attachment: g_b2000.sav.zip
This has been downloaded 7 time(s).
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solo
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Lowell, MA USA
Jan 2001
time: 05:23
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Here is my log up to 2000 BC. Players may continue onto 1000 BC whenever they want, using the save of their choice, though I’m assuming most will want to continue their own games.
4000 Madrid
3800 warriors
I’ve saved the hut for now. If I tip a tech, then I can research Monarchy in two more steps. A military unit or gold will allow me to use the size 1 settler trick. Barbs are impossible since the hut is within the city’s radius. I will leave most other huts for the AI to help speed their own progress.
3750 Alphabet, start on Code of Laws, hut - archer
3700 archer disbanded for size 1 settler shields
3400 settlers
3350 size two, settlers joins city, size 3
3300 warriors
Now I am working the wine and two silks, and will celebrate my Despotism to make it more like a Monarchy. I have started on the Colossus wonder. Since that hut did not give me a tech, I have decided to go to Trade before going to Monarchy. Otherwise the Colossus would be built before Trade was discovered. I think the early start on wonder building provided by Bronze Working makes Trade the first priority in this game.
3250 Code of Laws
2900 enough roads are in place to start we love, Currency
2500 Trade, start on Writing
MPE will be ready in 10 more turns. I hope to trade for Ceremonial Burial and maybe even Monarchy by the time MPE is built. If neither of these techs are available I may just proceed on to Republic instead.
2000 Marco Polo’s Embassy, Writing
Persians – trade for Ceremonial Burial, peace, alliance, 100g
Greeks – give tech, peace, alliance, 50g
Sioux – give tech, peace, alliance, 150g
Vikings – give tech, peace, alliance, 50g
Zulus – I give 50g in tribute, give tech, alliance, 100g gift, for a net profit of 50g!
Celts – give tech, peace, alliance, 50g
Since Ceremonial Burial was available, I have decided to trade for it and go to Monarchy next. I did not trade for any other techs yet, so as to get to Monarchy sooner, since I will be the last player out of Despotism. Since my current rating is Pathetic, I have set up alliances with all the other civs and have asked each of them for that initial gift of gold.
Attachment: sb2000.sav
This has been downloaded 3 time(s).
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StuporMan
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Lexington, KY
May 2005
time: 00:23
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4000: There is a lot to decide early on in this game. Should I tip the hut, or should I wait?
I made the decision to tip the hut because the only difference between now and later is that if I tip now and get a unit, it will be a NONE unit instead of having to support it.
Should I get a unit I will tip huts aggressively, otherwise I will wait until I get Monarchy.
I tip and get 50 gold, size 1 settler it is. Huts will wait till Monarchy, I may try to tip one before I have to research my off path tech.
Madrid founded.
3800: Warrior
3750: Alphabet
3450: Settler
3400: Size 2 -> Size 3 with settler, Warrior will be built next turn. I am hoping for a tech this turn from a hut,
unfortunately I get another 50 gold, it could have been worse. No more huts till after Monarchy.
3350: Warrior, Start Collossus. I am 1 beaker shy so I shift over to get more tax.
3300: Ceremonial Burial -> Code of Laws
2950: Code of Laws -> Monarchy? How did this happen. I double checked and I have 2.42 installed, this is odd.
2900: Bump luxuries up to celebrate Despotism.
2800: Sioux destroyed by Barbarians! This does not bode well, as this will delay the research rate of at least 2 civs. I hope restarts are on.
2550: Change Tax rate to delay for next Oedo year.
2450: Monarchy! -> Currency in 6 turns. With a celbrating Monarchy I might be able to get trade before Colossus is done.
I don't know why I was allowed to research Monarchy as my 3rd tech, but I am not complaining.
Could it have something to do with BW for free? I didn't think that had any effect.
2200: Currency -> Writing. I miscalculated and cannot research trade this turn.
I am not researching Map Making as I expect one of the AI to do that for me.
Writing is further up the tech path and therefore less likely for the AI to research.
Hopefully I can still get trade in time.
Also this will allow me to build a library right after Colossus if I don't get trade in time.
2000: Well, I am not going to get Trade in time for MPE, so I will get Colossus first.
This may or may not be the end of the world as this will increase trade and therefore make rush buying caravans easier.
It will also give the AI more opportunity to research without being saddled with extra techs which may mean this delay will give me 2 or 3 extra free techs from the AI, but most likely I will be behind several others for the next round at least.
StuporMan
Attachment: sm_b2000.sav
This has been downloaded 5 time(s).
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Elephant
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Phila PA
Aug 2002
time: 00:23
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Sorry I have not been available the last two weeks. A $300K project is hanging in the fire at the moment. Glad to see you all moving on with another OCC. This one looks interesting.
StuporMan, the "hiding" of Cer and CoL during the third tech round is changed by having Bronze as a freebie starter tech. That is why you could proceed directly to Monarchy on your fourth round. In this game the usual gap of one tech separating Monarchy (Alp-CoL-Bro/Wri-Cer-Mon) from early Republic (Alp-Wri-Bro-CoL-Lit-Rep) widens to two (Alp-CoL-Cer-Mon vs Alp-CoL-Wri-Cur-Lit-Rep), but you can get Trade on the seventh round for either path. All of this is assuming you do not get off-path techs from huts or other civs.
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solo
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Lowell, MA USA
Jan 2001
time: 05:23
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To clarify it even more, free techs do not change the normal sequencing, but may cause the joker techs to change. "0" techs were skipped on the first list and "1" techs were skipped on the second list, as normal. All "2" techs should be absent from the third list. The reason StuporMan was able to research Code of Laws (a "2" tech) on the third list was because it was the new joker tech, taking the place of the usual joker tech Bronze Working, which had already been acquired as a free starting tech. Code of Laws just happened to be next alphabetically after Bronze Working and joker techs must always appear, regardless of their sequencing number.
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solo
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Lowell, MA USA
Jan 2001
time: 05:23
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I have continued my game up to 1000 BC, so will post the log.
With the gold gifts from my early MPE and AI alliances, I was able to rush a few city improvements and continue on to Monarchy. This city site will also provide 10 shields if another citizen is added, so I work an irrigated grass tile long enough until size 4 is attained.
1950 library
1900 marketplace
1800 temple, now it’s time to start building caravans
1600 size 4, now each special holds a citizen
1550 Monarchy
Greeks – trade for Masonry & Map Making, 25g
Zulus – trade for Mysticism, give tech, share maps, 25g
I trade for a few key techs, but I am going to keep science maxed out since I want Republic quickly, so I can give it to the AI to speed their research.
1500 dye, revolution
1450 government to Monarchy
Persians – give tech, share maps
Vikings – give tech, 25g
1400 hides, we love begins in monarchy
1350 Sioux – 25g, Greeks – 25g
1300 trireme
I have decided to trade mostly with the Zulu, even though they are on the same continent. I will not make as much gold, but in the last game where trades were to other continents I made much more than enough. Zulu cities will be demanding most of my commodities, and the other continents are going to be hard to reach quickly enough with triremes to make trading there any better. Even though trade will be local, the trireme will be needed to speed delivery times. I can probably make 6 or 8 deliveries to the Zulus in the time it would take to make 2 to demanding AI cities on other continents.
An alternative strategy I considered for this map (where some black-clicking confirmed to me that other continents would be hard to reach quickly) was to build the Lighthouse wonder, but I concluded that many smaller trades to a local AI to whom I could build a connecting road would be the better choice.
1150 Zulus – 50g, Persians – give tech, 50g
1100 Literacy, hides(d) to Bapedi, 92g
1050 hides
I will have Republic in a few more turns. Even with that in hand, I will keep research maxed to get to Medicine and Sanitation as quickly as possible. This research effort will be supplemented by a string of early caravan deliveries. I want to try and switch to Republic and start SSC growth earlier in this game than I did in the last. Another long range plan will be to build a road and railroad to the Zulu cities I establish trade routes with. I’d like to have these in place by the time Automobile is discovered.
Attachment: sb1000.sav
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StuporMan
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Lexington, KY
May 2005
time: 00:23
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I elected to go with Solo's save this round. MPE was too big an advantage to pass up.
1950: Library
1900: MarketPlace
1800: Temple
Since I will be building caravans now I decide to consult with my calculator to see what I will be supplying.
It turns out I will have a strong supply of Hides up until the 16th tech. At that point Hides permanently drop off the list. I will, however, retain Dye and Silk with the 3rd commodity being Coal at that point. I decide that I will maximize hides caravans over the next several turns, putting off tech 16 for as long as possible.
1550: Hides, At this point I double check my findings. I discover that if I change the rivered plains to forest I will retain hides in the third wildcard position until I reach size 8. This makes delaying research much less important. I can be more free to trade for on path techs and can go ahead and produce the other two commodities for delivery. The next commodity I will make is silk, since it will disappear the same time as Hides (16+ techs & size 8). I want both of these commodities to stick so that I can do some major Wonder Flipping later.
1450: Monarchy -> Literacy, Revolution to Monarchy.
1400: Silk,
1350: Celts trade for Map Making, 25g gift
Zulus: Trade for Mysticism, Trade Maps
Vikings: Give Techs, share maps
Persians: Trade Maps
Greeks: Share Maps
Sioux: Share Maps
I want to be able to deliver Silk to Little Bighorn for the demand bonus, and luckily I found a route. My other Commodities are demanded by the Zulus, unfortunately there are not many opportunities for overseas trade early in this game. I guess a road to the Zulus will be my best bet.
1150: Dye, I am now building a trireme to try and speed deliveries to everyone. I am hoping
1100: Literacy->Philosophy? I thought Republic would be available, oh well, this just means I will choose Republic as my free tech from Philosophy.
I noticed the Celts had almost 400 gold in their pockets. With my status being Pathetic, I thought I would relieve them of some. I talked, asked for gift, they gave me 300 gold! I would have gifted tech, but they were short on time. I will probably bump up to another key civ anyway after all that gold.
Using this gold I rush my Trireme. Deliveries to the Zulus will commence soon!
1050: I decide to pop a hut along the way. I get a chariot. I will use this unit to pop several other huts on my continent before getting Republic.
1000: Tip another hut along the way, get a NONE Archer, sending back to Madrid, this archer will be my homeland defense for most of the rest of the game.
I just took a look and Bapedi will change its demand list next turn due to its Solo Cycle coming up. Fortunately, the change will be due to the Dye-Copper bug and I can get Hides back as a demanded commodity by first delivering Dye as a demanded commodity 
I think over the next set of turns I will start a road to the Zulus to facilitate trade with them, while at the same time delivering any demanded commodities over to the Sioux via a southern Island hopping route I found while black clicking. This hopefully will give me some better returns than just delivering to the Zulus alone.
StuporMan
Attachment: sm_b1000.sav
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).
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solo
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Lowell, MA USA
Jan 2001
time: 05:23
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quote:
Originally posted by StuporMan
1100: Literacy->Philosophy? I thought Republic would be available, oh well, this just means I will choose Republic as my free tech from Philosophy.
StuporMan |
Each tech trade adds a tech to your total and you made just the right number of trades to get the list without Republic. One more tech trade (or one fewer) and you could have picked Republic instead of Philosophy.
Mining the rivered plains was a good idea for improving trading oppotunities. The only problem is that this will take a lot of time, and there is quite a bit of additional work that still needs to be done around this city.
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solo
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Lowell, MA USA
Jan 2001
time: 05:23
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I think a week for each turnset is enough time, so I will continue with my log up to 500 BC.
975 hides
950 Republic, dye(d) to Ulundi, 116g
Sioux – trade for The Wheel, share maps
Persians – give tech
Greeks – give tech, share maps
Vikings – give tech, share maps
Zulus – give tech, share maps
Celts – give tech, 50g
Each AI gets Republic, and I head for Medicine and Sanitation next, using maxmium science except when caravan deliveries allow shifting the sliders for more income.
925 – hides
875 – trireme, must add another boat to keep deliveries moving
850 diplomat, Philosophy, Medicine
hides(d) to Zimbabwe, 136g
hides(d) to Zimbabwe, 136g
When I have enough to build Shakespeare’s, I will go to Republic and grow. A diplomat is ready for the barb archer that appeared on the home continent.
825 silk, Construction
Sioux – trade for Seafaring, 100g
Persians – give tech, 100g
Greeks – 100g
Vikings – 100g
Celts – give tech, share maps
800 coal
775 food
hides(d) to Zimbabwe, 136g
hides(d) to Zimbabwe, 136g
750 food, barb archer bribed, 61g; revolution
725 Shakespeare’s Theater, govt. to Republic
Sioux – 50g, Celts – 50g, Zulus – 25g, Vikings – 50g
700 we love begins, Engineering
675 size 5
650 size 6, Celts – give tech
625 size 7
600 settlers
I need to speed up city tile development if I am going to do that and build a road/rr to the Zulus. City growth is about 4 turns ahead of last game’s pace.
575 size 8, Vikings, Persians & Greeks – 50g each
550 aqueduct, size 9
525 size 10
500 harbor, size 11, Celts – give tech, 50g
I should learn Sanitation just in the knick of time. After that, I might relax research a bit and collect more taxes. Next stop will be all pre-Renaissance techs followed by a push towards Explosives.
Attachment: sob500.sav
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StuporMan
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Lexington, KY
May 2005
time: 00:23
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This set of turns took much careful planning before starting. I knew that in exchange for getting to build hides caravans for a few more turns, that I would be behind in city growth. Likewise, I will have less time for my settler to build interstate Zulu. As such I need to get more settlers. The problem is that building more settlers would require more city resources that would be needed for growth.
While pondering what to do about this trap I had laid for myself, I did some investigating into where the road/rail connections would need to be placed in order to get a bonus. Luckily for me, the Zulus had already set up a station city for me to utilize for delivery bonuses. Bapedi was perfectly set up for Ulundi to be my major delivery center to get those juicy delivery bonuses. Another boon was the fact that the trade route bonuses all fell along pretty well the same route for all Zulu cities, as did the Delivery payout route. Unfortunately, these routes were spaced an even 2 hexes apart.
Now, analysing this gave me time to remember that a few turns ago that the Zulus had two active settlers near Ulundi. I believe I have an idea on how to fix all my problems at once. I believe that I am going to need a diplomat soon.
1000: As everyone knows, Diplomats require Lots O' Money, so I bump my Tax rate up to the maximum. Delivery payments will pay for my next advance.
975: Hides, Hut:100g
On this turn, my power rating dropped to Pathetic. Sounds like the perfect opportunity to ask for donations to the Convert-a-Zulu foundation. For just a few gold per turn your too can give a Zulu settler a good Spanish Home.
The Celts gave a generous 100g donation.
The Zulus, likewise gave 100g. I am glad they want their settlers to have a good home. 
The Persians, made yet another 100g donation.
The Greeks were a bit strapped, yet still gave 50g to our worthy cause.
Finally, the Sioux decided to give 100g.
The Vikings, being so advanced, were more interested in giving us worthless technologies, so we declined to ask for donations (yet).
This brings our total up to 450g (which should be enough to buy one settler at least!).
950: Diplomat, I am sending him to do some "Negotiations" down near Ulundi. He will meet up with my trireme along the way.
925: Barbarians near Madrid. My archer, SHOULD be able to take care of theirs. If not I will call upon my chariot to finish them off.
900: Food.
Dye to Zimbabwe, 132g.
I will stockpile a few caravans in order to build Shakes when I get Medicine.
Zulu: give tech, share maps.
875: Philosopy->Republic->Medicine.
Hides to Zimbabwe 132g.
Science now returns to full. I will revolt the next Oedo year after the barbarian threat is taken care of (hopefully in 5 turns). I can celebrate to size 7 without Shakes. This size also allows me to build hides vans.
850: Barbarian leader: 150g
Hides, I misclicked, but I will go ahead and send this van down to the Zulus. Perhaps alternating caravans will be a good way to save up for wonders.
800: Food.
The plains->forest settler is now done. Starting food improvements.
775: Food.
Sioux again rich, willing to take 100g burden off their hands, I also decide to trade for Masonry.
Vikings give 150g.
I will give them Republic next time.
Share maps with Zulu, give techs.
750: Revolution!
725: Republic.
Food.
Bribe Zulu Settler for 412g.
Decide to go ahead and build Colossus.
It will give me more benefit than Shakes until I run hides dry.
At that point Shakes will be build and I will grow past size 7.
700: Colossus.
Second Settler bribed for 412g.
I am one road away from having a delivery bonus!
675: Size 5. Hides. Vikings give techs.
650: Size 6. Hides
625: Size 7. Hides. Banking. Hides to Ulundi: 180g.
600: Hides.
Sometime around here I sent off my trireme to deliver silk and hides to the Sioux. It is taking a southern route. (you should be able to see the beginning of the route in the 500BC save)
575: Hides. Construction. Celts: 100, Zulu: 25, Persians: 100, Greeks: Give Tech, Sioux: 50g. I am trying to keep up a Hides per turn as long as possible.
550: Hides. Hides to Ulundi, 196g. Zulus change to republic, just in time for a delivery too!
Oops, I had forgotten to bump my sciences back up from the turn before Construction. That may cost me a turn or two. The extra gold will help with rushing hides vans, though.
525: Hides.
Mathematics.
Zulus: Share Maps, 100g,
Diplomat returned the long way to Madrid, is now checking to see if a hut is still around.
500: Hides.
I think one more hides, then it is time for Shakes. I will wait to deliver many of these hides vans until I am at full size if possible. The only exception is when I need cash to rush build improvements.
Overall I am happy with this set of turns. I am disappointed in my research partners, as it looks like I am going to have to research the Wheel myself. This means I will also have to pick up horseback riding from one of the AI. I hope the Sioux finish the Hanging Gardens soon as I would like to get Seafaring from them as well.
I am thinking that my next Hides caravan will go to Zimbabwe. I believe that even though I get a bonus from Ulundi, Zimbabwe might pay off a bit higher. As it is, Ulundi paid off at almost 200g per caravan which I am quite pleased with. I should be able to get several very quick advances using all of the hides caravans that I stockpiled this turnset. It is also looking like I will have a road connection to the Zulus around 1AD. This will certainly help with 1 turn advances later in the game.
StuporMan
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solo
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Lowell, MA USA
Jan 2001
time: 05:23
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Welcome!
Normally if a settler is built in a size 1 city this will cause the city to disband, but if the city is your capital this doesn't happen. This trick allows you to get to size 3 very quickly, since once your city reaches size 2, the newly created settler can join it.
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rjmatsleepers
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I've downloaded the saves from Solo and StuporMan. Until the middle of next week I have promises to keep and far to go before I sleep. I'm not sure whether or when I will be able to play my own save through to 500 BC .
Welcome, biru biru. Can I encourage you to post a 500 BC save and a log from 1000 BC to 500 BC? Seeing how other people play helps all of us learn.
RJM at Sleeper's
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solo
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Lowell, MA USA
Jan 2001
time: 05:23
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biru biru,
My first OCC landing date was after 2000 AD, so yes, there is a learning curve in playing OCC games! I used to practice on old games, playing them over again many times to get the hang of how to play OCC well.
StuporMan,
An excellent turnset, and you have found a fine solution to your problems. Another advantage of bribing Zulu settlers is that they no longer get in your way, irrigating or mining tiles you desperately want to finish roading or railroading!
Roading to boost payoffs first is a great idea I wish I had thought of before completing my own game, but my home grown workers started there and worked their way west. Your fine idea may give you the advantage at the 1 AD checkpoint, even though I grew my city faster.
RJM,
We will wait for you to play up to 500 BC if you are busy and need more time.
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26-05-2005 19:04
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