01-06-2005 07:06									#181
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc When they get outraged over things that never happened, I say we give them something real to moan about.

I think we already have:
http://electroniciraq.net/news/1982.shtml

	01-06-2005 07:08									#182
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Whatever. I'm just glad you didn't post more spammy pictures.

	01-06-2005 07:09									#183
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Do you really, honest to God believe that the major intelligence services in the world, including some with leaky ties to our enemies, don't know who these companies are or what they do?

All I know about is United Pineapple and I got that from Godfather II.

	01-06-2005 07:09									#184
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Did Drake log off?

	01-06-2005 07:10									#185
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

If you don't like them, why would you give him the idea to post more?

	01-06-2005 07:13									#186
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quote: Originally posted by DRoseDARs If you don't like them, why would you give him the idea to post more?

I have a love/hate relationship with spam. The link to an affiliate of Electronic Intifada was way to amusing though.

	01-06-2005 07:19									#187
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Maybe you like my links better than my pics? Here's a link about press censorship in Iraq:
http://www.irinnews.org/report.asp?...ectCountry=IRAQ

	01-06-2005 07:23									#188
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DanS ... perhaps it will help your sensitivities to learn that the media company I work for forbids the use of any photo that has blood in it, on the grounds that it wouldn't be suitable for family oriented newspapers.

The company I work for happens to be very large as well, with dozens of papers across the nation and a few overseas as well.

Feel better?

Gatekeeper

	01-06-2005 07:25									#189
	Got spare money?

yeah the media already self censors. the only place you'll see really disturbing images is the net.

	01-06-2005 07:28									#190
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quote: Originally posted by Gatekeeper DanS ... perhaps it will help your sensitivities to learn that the media company I work for forbids the use of any photo that has blood in it, on the grounds that it wouldn't be suitable for family oriented newspapers. The company I work for happens to be very large as well, with dozens of papers across the nation and a few overseas as well. Feel better? Gatekeeper

Would these be the same parents who allow their kids to buy violent computer/video console games? Or allow them to watch R rated movies?

	01-06-2005 08:59									#191
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quote: Did Drake log off?

Yes. I have to do some teaching while at school...

	01-06-2005 09:00									#192
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ok -- welcome back

	01-06-2005 09:06									#193
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun I agree with you -- as if people have the right to be free from being offended anyway? So what if Cheney is offended? If you believe that United States never makes mistakes and never does anything delibrately wrong then yes, you're bound to be offended due to your warped view of United States.

OMG, today Bush follows up by saying people making the allegations, "hate America."

That is about as lame as can get.

I think these new FBI memos about to come out are telling what's really going on and these two morons are doing damage control by reverting the least common denominator AGAIN.

	01-06-2005 09:10									#194
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So Drake, do you want to snuggle up and then resume where we left off with our discussion?

	01-06-2005 09:14									#195
	Put an end to popups!

Why? You have a bizarre definition of the term "whitewash" that I don't agree with. What's left to discuss?

Besides, I have another class in a bit.

	01-06-2005 09:15									#196
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Fine, if you don't want to explain your disagreement I guess that's the end of our relationship.

	01-06-2005 09:18									#197
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Why do I need to explain it? Your personal definition of whitewash is quite different from the commonly accepted one. It should be pretty obvious that's where our disagreement lies...

	01-06-2005 09:22									#198
	Got spare money?

I found this definition on dictionary.com:

white·wash ( P ) Pronunciation Key (hwtwsh, -wôsh, wt-)
n.
A mixture of lime and water, often with whiting, size, or
glue added, that is used to whiten walls, fences, or other structures.

Concealment or palliation of flaws or failures.

A defeat in a game in which the loser scores no points.



Denial of opportunity to publicize photos of an outrage fits with the second definition. The reason -- you want to diminish the real extent of the outrage by allowing for only printed media. Depriving the media of photos clearly diminishes the real extent of the outrage.

And by diminishing the actual extent of the outrage are you not partaking in concealment or palliation of flaws or failures?

	01-06-2005 09:26									#199
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten I'm glad to see you take such a responsible POV as regards the fight against Islamism.

Islamism is a product of US foreign policy.

	01-06-2005 09:28									#200
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It's also the product of Soviet ambitions in the Middle East and Central Asia during the Cold War.




Both, United States and Soviet Union (now Russia) have reaped what they have sown.

	01-06-2005 09:28									#201
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quote: Denial of opportunity to publicize photos of an outrage fits with the second definition. The reason -- you want to diminish the real extent of the outrage by allowing for only printed media. Depriving the media of photos clearly diminishes the real extent of the outrage.

The extent of the potential outrage has nothing to do with anything. How can you conceal something that hasn't happened yet (and might not ever happen)? The issue that could be concealed is the actions of American interrogators. If said actions are reported in the print media then they are not being concealed and therefore no whitewash can be said to be taking place.

	01-06-2005 09:29									#202
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quote: Islamism is a product of US foreign policy.

So is Chinese independence from Japan...

	01-06-2005 09:33									#203
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten The extent of the potential outrage has nothing to do with anything. How can you conceal something that hasn't happened yet (and might not ever happen)? The issue that could be concealed is the actions of American interrogators. If said actions are reported in the print media then they are not being concealed and therefore no whitewash can be said to be taking place.

from the article in the OP:

"A federal judge has told the government it will have to release additional pictures of detainee abuse at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison, civil rights lawyers said."

What do you mean that the abuse of detainees has not happened yet?

	01-06-2005 09:34									#204
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This isn't worth my time...

	01-06-2005 15:02									#205
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Islamism is a product of US foreign policy.

While it would be hard to argue that one of the many inputs has been U.S. foreign policy, your statement is more ridiculous than saying U.S, foreign policy had nothing to do with it.

	01-06-2005 15:08									#206
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat I understand your point, but I think the issue here is not gratuitous exploitation of pics of someone like Louima, but rather, how severe are the violations and how widespread? I think (from polls I've seen) that there's a good portion of the population that doesn't give a damn what we do in Gitmo or Abu Ghraib - I fall partly in the middle, in that I have a realistic understanding of prisoner treatment, especially of recent captures or irregular fighters. My concern isn't particularly with the poor insurgents who got captured before they got close to Allah, but with the efficiency of our operations and the level of discipline, command and control, and the degree of value we get out of our MI processing of insurgent prisoners.

I agree completely.

	01-06-2005 15:09									#207
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quote: Originally posted by GePap I am glad you are so willing to "win hearts and minds" by making sure the Muslim world knows that while we torture them (something they can read all about), we feel them too backwards and ignorant and violent to be allowed to see the fruits of our labor

I don't think that they are sophisticated enough to grasp our disdain.

	01-06-2005 18:22									#208
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What public interest is being served by continuing to show the Abu Gharib photos?

Well, how about the truth?

If you want to pretend that Abu Gharib never happened, then you have a easy option. Turn to Faux News and leave it there.

We grown ups, however, don't have time for this sort of lie.

	02-06-2005 20:52									#209
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DanS, could you maybe just pick up a bucket of sand at Walmart or something?

The rest of the nation needs to stare at those photos a good, long time, and reflect on just what America has become, and how it got that way.

Maybe they could start by asking the new attorney general.

	02-06-2005 20:54									#210
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quote: DanS, could you maybe just pick up a bucket of sand at Walmart or something?

I'm disappointed in you, mindseye. I expected a response a little more thoughtful from you.