31-05-2005 04:40									#121
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To be fair, the air force and naval air units are almost push-button nowadays. Are many of these flyers any less ignorant of what war is really like, even if they've been in combat?

	31-05-2005 04:41									#122
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Or the outrage of Bush dressing up as a soldier while ignorant about what war is really like.

Oh, and then what about those political leaders that had war experience and still got into wars ?

	31-05-2005 05:10									#123
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quote: Originally posted by DanS To be fair, the air force and naval air units are almost push-button nowadays. Are many of these flyers any less ignorant of what war is really like, even if they've been in combat?

Yes they are.

But the real problem here is the pro war media, your favorites, have been spinning the war furiously since the election claiming that "a corner has been turned" etc. and photos which show what a dirty little war it really is don't fit with the rosy picture they are trying to present to public opinion.

	31-05-2005 05:12									#124
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quote: Originally posted by BlackCat Oh, and then what about those political leaders that had war experience and still got into wars ?

That is just as bad, when the war is unjustified.

	31-05-2005 05:17									#125
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quote: But the real problem here is the pro war media, your favorites, have been spinning the war furiously since the election claiming that "a corner has been turned" etc. and photos which show what a dirty little war it really is don't fit with the rosy picture they are trying to present to global opinion.

I don't know what pro war media to which you're referring. I hardly heard a single positive story out of Iraq all last year in the run-up to the election. Even now, the positive stories are few and far between, despite the fact that the sunnis appear to be coming off the political sidelines and the shi'ites have been studies in forebearance against an awful string of atrocities.

	31-05-2005 05:24									#126
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not paid your Fox subscription eh Dan

	31-05-2005 05:25									#127
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Your view needs recalibrated to reality. Few Americans watch Fox News. I rarely have occassion to watch.

	31-05-2005 05:27									#128
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I suppose the same goes for the PBS news hours

	31-05-2005 05:36									#129
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Yes, about the same. PBS Newshour only gets about 2.7 million viewers a night, even though I do find occassion now and then to watch it.

Anyway, so where's this vast propaganda machine that is feeding me positive news about Iraq that needs to be balanced by gruesome photos?

	31-05-2005 05:41									#130
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Murdoch - his media empire, which is not just Fox, has been putting on a very positive spin lately, clearly under editorial instruction.

	31-05-2005 05:52									#131
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Murdoch's news-related media empire is pretty anemic in the states. Who reads the New York Post anyways?

	31-05-2005 05:55									#132
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ah, well this is the thing, what we get in the global media is a lot different from what you get stateside, which causes a lot of misunderstandings on these boards

and I don't mean all the international media is leftwing by any stretch, probably more the other way cos lefties don't own media empires

	31-05-2005 06:04									#133
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I read the BBC News online and the Brit papers online from time to time. Can't say as I read lots of positive Iraq spin, although admittedly I don't go out of my way to find it.

Are you sure this isn't just your getting pissed at Murdoch, who publishes a rag or two in your neck of the woods?

	31-05-2005 06:08									#134
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no I'm not pissed at em - they do some good stories and analysis - and I like good well written conservative analysis

I read The Spectator, can't stand The Guardian.

Maybe I'm not as pink and you might think

	31-05-2005 06:11									#135
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OK, so who precisely are you including in this vast positive Iraq spin machine that needs to be countered with gruesome photos of little children getting blown to bits and a POW raped (I assume that there's worse, which we will be oh so lucky to see)? A list would be nice. You can include only those outlets in the Anglosphere.

Last edited by DanS on 31-05-2005 at 06:17

	31-05-2005 06:18									#136
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oh yeah right - I'm not media monitors ya know

	31-05-2005 06:21									#137
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I'm just exploring your perceptions of what's going on. I wasn't expecting a long annotated list, because I'm skeptical that you could come up with one anyway. Even the pro-war outlets such as the Washington Post have been remarkably spin-free.

	31-05-2005 06:25									#138
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or you can't detect the spin

	31-05-2005 06:33									#139
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Well, today's fare includes...

(1) Insurgents hitting back after the Iraqi government security cordon was thrown up around Baghdad.

(2) A soldier who started having hallucinations about dead people in Iraq and committed suicide at Walter Reed.

Yeh, my spin radar must be broken, because this is pretty much what I hear about on a daily basis.

	31-05-2005 06:43									#140
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you see/ elements of the international media are speculating that maybe a corner has been turned and the tactics of the insurgents in attacking civilians may be turning the population against them

There is also the zaqawi may be dead story and speculation of a possible power struggle because of failed tactics. You guys get morbid and the world gets optimistic

Last edited by Alexander's Horse on 31-05-2005 at 06:51

	31-05-2005 06:47									#141
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Speculation on this is warranted. There was an excellent article yesterday in the WaPo about the residents of an Iraqi town on the Syrian border in a huge firefight with al Qaeda. The marines just watched on. But nobody mainstream has come to a conclusion about things, as far as I know.

	31-05-2005 06:49									#142
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well fingers crossed, never mind how we got into this mess, we need to find a way out, we now have an infantry battalion on the ground

	31-05-2005 06:53									#143
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Your Irish is no longer up about the voters of dumbfvckistan?

	31-05-2005 06:59									#144
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nah, the flashbacks have subsided

	31-05-2005 07:05									#145
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Haven't we established yet that it's not that we need to see them, but that it would be dire to not allow them to be seen?

	31-05-2005 07:09									#146
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Are you kidding? Your bro wants to get ahold of my eyelids and Mr Fun is in the "need to see them" camp.

	31-05-2005 07:13									#147
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I assure you, it's for SCIENCE.

	31-05-2005 09:50									#148
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quote: Originally posted by DRoseDARs Because black text on newspaper can easily be passed off as hyperbole while color photos of the acts are a little harder to dismiss.

Bingo. And that's the point which CANNOT be deflected, IMO. I've seen many just blow it off, when faced with pictures you can't do that.

	31-05-2005 11:22									#149
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Everyone from dumbf*ckistan who voted for Bush should have that war rubbed in their face every single day until its over.

You may not realize it, but it actually has been scientifically shown that those who support Bush's war are more likely to be dumb, or at least not as well educated as those who oppose the war:
http://www.americanpolitics.com/20030922Koop.html

	31-05-2005 11:35									#150
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Speaking of media mouthpieces, here is one of the biggest jokes I've ever seen. "Cheney offended." Who gives a **** if Cheney is offended?!

This has been the lead story ALL DAY on CNN.com. Really, is that the most important story that we need to know?

I'm offended he lied to everybody to go invade Iraq.

**** Cheney. What a moron.

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