01-06-2005 22:19									#1
	censorship on mtv? Support Apolyton

i'm puzzled by this. while MTV has always been the bastion of pop culture, there has always been an edge to it. now i realize that over the last decade or so (presumably following the death of kurt cobain), MTV has gotten more mass market friendly, but this is outrageous. MTV has done a lot to combat voter apathy in the 18-30 age group, and now they go and tell these guys that they can't have a frikkin backdrop? something is awry.

discuss.

	01-06-2005 22:20									#2
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MTV countering voter apathy? That concept just doesn't process.

	01-06-2005 22:22									#3
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what with all the "rock the vote" campaigns?

	01-06-2005 22:30									#4
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Keeping Bush's face off the air

	01-06-2005 22:34									#5
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quote: Originally posted by self biased what with all the "rock the vote" campaigns?

Either those had ceased when I started to watch MTV (not that I ever was much of a regular viewer), or they don't do 'em here.

	01-06-2005 22:35									#6
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it would depend. they get some airplay on presidential years.

	01-06-2005 22:43									#7
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Good.

They got what they deserve.

No soapbox.

	01-06-2005 23:08									#8
	Got spare money?

mtv

then again, and no offense to anybody, but i'm kinda irritated with NIN.

not because of their music, or anything that they did, but all those really annoying fans who'd carve NIN into every **** thing in the world.

and actually, the mtv thing isn't just for this, either.

	01-06-2005 23:11									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Muad'Dib Good. They got what they deserve. No soapbox.

Why?

	01-06-2005 23:16									#10
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quote: Originally posted by self biased it would depend. they get some airplay on presidential years.

At a guess, only in the states.

	01-06-2005 23:40									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed mtv then again, and no offense to anybody, but i'm kinda irritated with NIN. not because of their music, or anything that they did, but all those really annoying fans who'd carve NIN into every **** thing in the world. and actually, the mtv thing isn't just for this, either.

way to not like something based on the way the fans behave, rather than the actual content. that's like saying you don't play civ because all the people at apolyton are really annoying. make up your own mind.

	01-06-2005 23:46									#12
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i don't like apple, not because of their hardware or software, but because of the insane and inane cult of mac.

i like nin's music. i don't like nin.

i'm cool and even like apple's hardware and software. i don't like apple.

	01-06-2005 23:52									#13
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quote: way to not like something based on the way the fans behave, rather than the actual content.

	01-06-2005 23:54									#14
	Full PM-box? Change here!

MTV censors like mad, has done so as long as I can remember. It's hilarious to compare the MTV version of some videos (particularly for rap music) with the version Dutch music stations air. All the nudity, much of the stronger language and sometimes the violence filtered out -- sometimes you're watching two completely different videos

That's happening less and less though, now that MTV bought up all the Dutch stations and is imposing their American values on the Dutch viewer, thus denying us of all the juiciest videos

Don't know about poltical stuff though, I think much of the American political crap is fortunately spared to the European viewer (in my experience anyway, it's not like I watch all day, especially lately -- I think I might be getting too old for it ).

	02-06-2005 00:03									#15
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MTV wouldn't play Madonna's Justify My Love video, among others, because it was too risque. That was in 1990. I'd say they're pretty accomplished at censoring.

	02-06-2005 00:04									#16
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note az, self biased, i'm not apologizing. i'm just explaining that i do it with other things too. and frankly, i don't see why it's a bad thing--

especially since:

I like the content; I dislike the content provider, not because of the content, but because of the other consumers and supporters and in some cases, the content provider.

I like libertarian ideals. I dislike the libertarian party.
I like network tv shows. I dislike the network tv companies.

	02-06-2005 00:07									#17
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I think that non-Americans are forgetting that free speech means that corporations can demand that artists refrain from speaking their mind and that people must automatically organize economic boycotts of anyone who says anything they don't like.

	02-06-2005 00:08									#18
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I think Aggie is forgetting that these same people claim that free speech includes the ability to criticize actions such as this by corporations

	02-06-2005 00:09									#19
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quote: I think Aggie is forgetting that these same people claim that free speech includes the ability to criticize actions such as this by corporations.

It doesn't if you are going to get fired or boycotted for simply expressing a political opinion.

Ironically, Americans go on about free speech more than any other nationality, yet they don't tolerate it or in fact really understand what it means.

	02-06-2005 00:09									#20
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What's wrong with offensive?

	02-06-2005 00:10									#21
	Suffering from ads?

I didn't say without repercussions from said corporations.

	02-06-2005 00:34									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon I think that non-Americans are forgetting that free speech means that corporations can demand that artists refrain from speaking their mind and that people must automatically organize economic boycotts of anyone who says anything they don't like.

Man this so utterly idiotic.

Free speech does not mean everyone has the right to say whatever they want whenever they want wherever they want. Should you demand MTV play sadomasochist porn at 3pm and then say they are limiting freedom of speech because they refuse?

Moreso being a music channel, MTV has every right to demand that their invited arists behave in a non-partisan manner to avoid controversy (which if you remember the superbowl incident, has already cost them). Can you blame them for that?

You can say that the decision is stupid, I agree, that MTV caters to the establishment, I also agree. But saying that this is in some way a violation of free speech is utterly ridiculous.

-MZ

	02-06-2005 01:20									#23
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quote: Free speech does not mean everyone has the right to say whatever they want whenever they want wherever they want. Should you demand MTV play sadomasochist porn at 3pm and then say they are limiting freedom of speech because they refuse?

Nice straw man.

I suggest you think again...

	02-06-2005 01:52									#24
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I repeat, if NIN wanted to display sadomasochist porn in their show and MTV would have said no because of indecency, would that be a violation of free speech or artistic rights of expression? NIN can display whatever they want in their own concerts since they're the ones organizing it, but if they are being paid to perform on someone else's show, they have to respect their guilelines, period, just like you have to respect the rules when visiting someone else's house even if you don't like them or like you have to respect the laws of a foreign country.

MTV doesn't want partisan controversy in their shows. Period. They have every right to do so and if you don't like it DON'T WATCH THEIR FRIGGIN SHOW

	02-06-2005 02:01									#25
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Not even the most strident proponent of free speech believes that you have a substantive right to display obscene material.

That has nothing to do with ordinary, mainstream political speech, which is what this was an example of.

Try again.....

	02-06-2005 02:07									#26
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quote: Not even the most strident proponent of free speech believes that you have a substantive right to display obscene material.

Wrong

	02-06-2005 02:14									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon That has nothing to do with ordinary, mainstream political speech, which is what this was an example of.

Except MTV is not an ordinary mainstread political channel, it is a private music channel which has every right to choose what they show and what they don't show, just as you have every right not to watch it.

Tell me, if you were a lawyer, do you think you'd have a case against MTV because of this in terms of violation of the first amendment? I thought not.

	02-06-2005 02:17									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Not even the most strident proponent of free speech believes that you have a substantive right to display obscene material. That has nothing to do with ordinary, mainstream political speech, which is what this was an example of. Try again.....

It's no more a violation of free speech than moderation of this site is a violation of free speech. No one's keeping you from talking; some people aren't letting you use their property to distribute your message.

	02-06-2005 02:22									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker It's no more a violation of free speech than moderation of this site is a violation of free speech. No one's keeping you from talking; some people aren't letting you use their property to distribute your message.

Look at it this way, according to Agathon you have every right to go to his house, climb up on his roof and start shouting pro-Bush propaganda with a loudspeaker. If he doesn't let you, he's violating your right to free speech

	02-06-2005 02:51									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen Look at it this way, according to Agathon you have every right to go to his house, climb up on his roof and start shouting pro-Bush propaganda with a loudspeaker. If he doesn't let you, he's violating your right to free speech

First decent reason to be a free speech fanatic ever