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Kidicious is offline Kidicious
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Diety of Kidiverse
Mar 2003
time: 21:36
  Old Post 03-06-2005 03:04 Visit Kidicious's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Lancer
Btw, when the aliens land and start rounding up humans for brain food, it will likely effect the markets.


No it won't. The markets will adjust.

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
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Mar 2003
time: 21:36
  Old Post 03-06-2005 03:05 Visit Kidicious's homepage!
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I think LoA thought that I was talking about what the consumer would do. I was talking about what the govt should do. That's my bad.

MichaeltheGreat is offline MichaeltheGreat
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Oct 1999
time: 21:36
  Old Post 03-06-2005 03:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Kidicious
I think LoA thought that I was talking about what the consumer would do. I was talking about what the govt should do. That's my bad.


Let the markets work out supply/demand. Any instant financial or tax credit incentives for alternatives won't help quickly enough.

As oil prices up, alterntives out the wazoo become more cost-effective.

Oh, and give the Israelis the green light.

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
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time: 21:36
  Old Post 03-06-2005 03:45 Visit Kidicious's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
As oil prices up, alterntives out the wazoo become more cost-effective.


Creating the facitilies for those takes quite a bit of oil though.

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
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Apr 2001
time: 06:36
  Old Post 03-06-2005 04:02
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ok guys, im going to have to bust out the microeconomic demand graph that shows government intervention. gimme a coupla minutes to draw it

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
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Mar 2003
time: 21:36
  Old Post 03-06-2005 04:13 Visit Kidicious's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
ok guys, im going to have to bust out the microeconomic demand graph that shows government intervention. gimme a coupla minutes to draw it


To show what?

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
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  Old Post 03-06-2005 04:14
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to show that government intervention is also microeconomic

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
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  Old Post 03-06-2005 04:33 Visit Kidicious's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
to show that government intervention is also microeconomic


As it affects the individual consumer or the firm sure it is, but not as if affects the whole economy.

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
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Apr 2001
time: 06:36
  Old Post 03-06-2005 05:24
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LET:

U(x, y) = x^0.5 y^0.5
I = 100
Px= 1
Py= 1

Where U(x, y) is the equation for the indifference curve
Where I is income
Where Px is price of good x (oil)
Where Py is price of good y

WE CALCULATE:

Maximum utility:

X* = (a/ a+ b) * (I/ Px)
X* = (1/2) * (100/ 1)
X* = 50

Y* = (b/ a+ b) * (I/ Py)
Y* = (1/2) * (100/ 1)
Y* = 50

U* (x, y) = 50^0.5 50^0.5
U* = 50

When Px = 1, Py=1 and I= 100, we have optimal consumption at X* = 50 and Y*=50. This is point A on the graph. This lies along the indifference curve where U = 50

ASSUME:

Px increases by 100%

Px= 2
Py= 1
I= 100

WE CALCULATE:

Maximum Utility:

X** = (a/ a+ b) * (I/ Px)
X** = (1/2) * (100/ 2)
X** = 25

Y** = (b/ a+ b) * (I/ Py)
Y** = (1/2) * (100/ 1)
Y** = 50

U**(x, y) = 25^0.5 50^0.5 = 35.4
U** = 35.4


When Px = 2 and Py = 1, we have a new optimal consumption at X** = 25 and Y** = 50. This is point B on the graph. As you can see, when price of oil increases, you consume less of it. We also see that the consumer derives less utility, as it has decreased from 50 to 35.4.

WE CALCULATE:

Minimum Expenditures:

X*** = (VPy^0.5) / Px^0.5
X*** = 50/ 2^0.5
X*** = 35.4

Y*** = (VPx^0.5) / Py^0.5
Y*** = 50 2^0.5/ 1
Y*** = 70. 7

The minimized expenditure gives us point A’, which is where the consumer will buy 35.4 units of oil and 70.7 units of y. At A’, we have U* = 50, Px = 2 and Py = 1. V = indirect utility. In this case, it is U which we are holding constant at U = 50

Lets say the price goes to $2 for oil. The government decides to subsidize oil. The price of oil then falls to $1. The government pays $50 and the consumers pay $50.

Lets say the price goes to $2 for oil. The government decides to give the consumers cash. This increases their income, and they now buy at point A’, which gives them more of both goods then before. This costs the government just over $20.

It is cheaper to just give them the cash in this case.

Attachment: slide1.jpg
This has been downloaded 53 time(s).

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
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Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:36
  Old Post 03-06-2005 07:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Space05us
I can walk everywhere I need to go. So its not a big deal to me.


You do realize more than gas prices would be effected, right?

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:36
  Old Post 03-06-2005 07:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Lancer
You can post in this thread or my skull sucking locust aliens thread, which is more realistic. Btw, when the aliens land and start rounding up humans for brain food, it will likely effect the markets.

I want to be perfectly clear on that.


Dracon II is offline Dracon II
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Communist Party of Apolyton
Jan 1970
time: 15:36
  Old Post 03-06-2005 08:36
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I assume that there will be stagflation. The market will respond.... by increasing prices and contracting at the same time.

All this talk about cars ignores the fact that Oil affects just about everything we produce... petrochemicals, anyone? plastics? Big, big things....

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
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time: 21:36
  Old Post 03-06-2005 08:52 Visit Kidicious's homepage!
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LoA,

What about the effect on the economy?

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
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Apr 2001
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  Old Post 03-06-2005 09:34
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quote:

True, but the issue is macroeconomic, because it concerns the effect on the whole economy, and what govt action would, or wouldn't, be appropriate.


the issue is also microeconomic - i just showed you what government action would or wouldnt be appropriate. the total effect is of course macroeconomic, but we can also look at this issue from a micro standpoint as i did.

mrmitchell is offline mrmitchell
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time: 23:36
  Old Post 03-06-2005 09:45
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If oil consumption drops--you have to consider the entire range of jobs effected.

1) Rich middle eastern *******s
2) Poor middle eastern well workers
3) Rich American *******s
4) American well workers
5) Tankers + crew
6) Gas station operators

Consider the effect on the economies of Texas, South AR, and the other oil producing parts of the US (and Europe) when their product falls in demand. It isn't just a middle east problem.

And what happens when the ME is no longer economically worthwhile to keep screwing up? Do we just abandon those peoples to dictatorships and destruction like we have with other economically worthless areas? (Africa, for example)

And don't get me started about how much else oil is needed for. Plastics, chemicals...people talk about getting rid of the oil dependency but it is a hell of a lot easier thought up than risked. When we move away from gasoline cars we need to consider every angle to such a monumental economy ****.

EDIT; *shift

MrFun is offline MrFun
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Nov 2000
time: 23:36
  Old Post 03-06-2005 09:46 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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Kid's thread limits per day has reached it's peak.



What do we do?

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
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  Old Post 03-06-2005 16:41 Visit Kidicious's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
but we can also look at this issue from a micro standpoint as i did.


Sure, if you only consider a consumer instead of the consumers.

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
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  Old Post 03-06-2005 16:47 Visit Kidicious's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by mrmitchell
If oil consumption drops--you have to consider the entire range of jobs effected.

1) Rich middle eastern *******s

3) Rich American *******s


The're just going to get richer in the short run because the demand for oil is inelastic. Eventually in the long run alternatives will become cheaper. That's really why they keep the price of oil relatively low, because they don't want this to happen. They want to keep us hooked as long as possible. But in order to keep the price low the have to increase supply. The problem is that if they increase supply too much they will permantly damage the wells, which can destroy 80% of the capacity of the wells. That's what happened in the USSR. I'm convinced that there is no way that China can continue it's growth rate without a peak oil crisis occuring.

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
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  Old Post 06-06-2005 10:44 Visit Kidicious's homepage!
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There's a show on this on FX right now. I think it's almost over though.

 
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