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Alexander01
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Nope. It's not "PC" enough. Though they certainly haven't had a problem including Stalin and Mao in the past, both of whom butchered more people than Hitler ever did. (Not that that would justify ol' Adolf's inclusion, rather, it cries for the disclusion of the other two).
Last edited by Alexander01 on 03-06-2005 at 06:48
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KyuuA4
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I can only speculate...
quote:
So why are there some civs that have two leaders? |
Certain civilizations have multiple great leaders - so hey, why not include more than one?
In addition, certain civilizations do not fall into just one trait.
quote:
And then why only SOME of them? |
Well, can you think of an easy 2nd GREAT leader for say -- Azteca? Germany? How about the Mongols - whose time of greatness was only about a century or so?
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Alexander01
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quote:
Originally posted by KyuuA4
Well, can you think of an easy 2nd GREAT leader for say -- Azteca? Germany? How about the Mongols - whose time of greatness was only about a century or so? |
Hmm. Yes!
Aztecs: Montezuma, Cuauhtemoc
Germany: Otto von Bismarck, Maria Theresa, Frederick Barbarossa, Frederick the Great, Otto the Great, Charles V
Mongols: Genghis Khan, Kublai Khan, Batu Khan, Ogedei Khan, Anybody Khan
Heck, somebody even thought of two leaders for Mali ...
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KyuuA4
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quote:
Originally posted by Alexander01
Hmm. Yes!
Aztecs: Montezuma, Cuauhtemoc
Germany: Otto von Bismarck, Maria Theresa, Frederick Barbarossa, Frederick the Great, Otto the Great, Charles V
Mongols: Genghis Khan, Kublai Khan, Batu Khan, Ogedei Khan, Anybody Khan
Heck, somebody even thought of two leaders for Mali ...
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OK, to be more specific... a second leader WORTHY of time-spent by the staff to be programmed into the game? 
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SCUrfer
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The idea is two leaders who represent radically different philosophies that have been present in a Civ over it's history.
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KyuuA4
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Y'know. I find it nice seeing Emperor Qin representing China. After watching Hero... I thought... man, this dude was great - as his actions shaped China for the two millenia after his rule...
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KyuuA4
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quote:
Originally posted by Alexander01
Like Qin Shih Huangti - Ancient Totalitarian Conquest
and
Mao Tse-tung - Modern Totalitarian Conquest |
Hmm, they should've picked one of the early/mid Ming Emperors then.
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Vince278
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Would be true of nearly all of them before the 1770's.
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molly bloom
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Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Alexander01
So why are there some civs that have two leaders? Why then do only SOME of them have two?
Persians: Cyrus (Why not Darius or Xerxes?)
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Because Cyrus I is considered to be the begetter of the first Iranian empire and the Achaemenid dynasty.
However there is also Cyrus II, the Great- of whom it was written:
" "I am Cyrus, king of the world, great king, mighty king, king of Babylon, king of the land of Sumer and Akkad, king of the four quarters, son of Cambyses, ...king of Anshan, grandson of Cyrus, ...descendant of Teispes, ...progeny of an unending royal line, whose rule Bel and Nabu cherish, whose kingship they desire for their hearts' pleasures.
When I, well-disposed, entered Babylon, I established the seat of government in the royal palace amidst jubilation and rejoicing. Marduk, the great God, caused the great-hearted inhabitants of Babylon to come to me. I sought daily to worship him. My many troops moved about undisturbed in the midst of Babylon. I did not allow any to terrorize the land of Sumer and Akkad. I kept in view the needs of Babylon and all its sanctuaries to promote their well being. The citizens of Babylon ...their dilapidated dwellings I restored. I put an end to their misfortunes...
...the cities of Ashur and Susa, Agade, Eshnuna, the cities of Zamban, Meurnu, Der, as far as the region of the land of Gutium, the holy cities beyond the Tigris whose sanctuaries had been in ruins over a long period, the gods whose abode is in the midst of them, I returned to the places and housed them in lasting abodes. I gathered together all their inhabitants and restored to them their dwellings..."
"O, man, whoever thou art and whensoever thou comest, for I know that thou wilt come, I am Cyrus, and I won for the Persians their empire. Do not, therefore, begrudge me this little earth which covers my body. " "
Quite impressive, really.
Darius I and Xerxes, although also impressive and successful in many respects, did have those embarassing defeats inflicted on them by the Greeks, at Marathon and Salamis.
 Attachment: cyrus.jpg
This has been downloaded 101 time(s).
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molly bloom
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Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:36
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quote:
Originally posted by KyuuA4
How about the Mongols - whose time of greatness was only about a century or so? |
Well a unified Mongol Empire under one leader might have been realtively short-lived, but the effects of Mongol or Turkic-Mongol civilization are much longer lasting.
Today, the Iranians say that their country's ancient irrigation systems never recovered from the destruction of the Khwarizm khanate and the rump Abbasid domains in the Middle East.
The Mongol destruction of Baghdad wrecked an ages-old centre of learning, science and culture, irreparably.
The Mongols shattered the growing Russian city states, destroyed the flower of East European chivalry in battle and were on the point of threatening Central and Western Europe- imagine a Europe with no Renaissance, north or south.
The Mongol dynasty of Kublai Khan in China was world famous, although even it had its limitations, seeing defeat in Srivijaya, the jungles of South East Asia and Japan. Presumably the moral being don't venture beyond the natural capability of steppe horsemen fighting units.
The Timurid and Moghul Mongol successor states are also reasonably well-known, as is the Golden Horde in Russian history. In fact, the Mongols hindered Russian advancement greatly.
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KyuuA4
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quote:
Heck, I'd like a full WWII scenario with appropriate leaderheads provided -- Hitler, Stalin, Churchill, Roosevelt, Tojo, DeGaulle, Chiang, etc. |
As opposed to past scenarios involving Catherine the Great vs Otto von Bismark... WTF was that?!
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03-06-2005 05:52
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