04-06-2005 00:10									#1
	Should the U.S. normalize relations with Cuba Remove this text

Why are we still giving Cuba the cold shoulder when have relations with Russia, China, and Vietnam. Don't you think it's time to bury the hatchet?

	04-06-2005 00:23									#2
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Yep.

Bush should go on TV, call Castro an irrelevant old fart, and tell us to spend our dollars like there's no tomorrow down there.

Effects:

1) Cubans realize that capitalism is greater the Socialism.
2) Cubans become restless, start demanding more freedoms
3) Castro goes nuts and cracks down harder.
4) Cubans don't stand for his his s**t anymore.
5) Bye, bye Castro and cronies.
6) Cuba becomes the Vegas of the Caribbean. Which is what is was going to be hadn't Castro F'd up.

	04-06-2005 01:02									#3
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I still don't understand the use of the sanctions on Cuba. They have been consistently proven useless.

	04-06-2005 01:05									#4
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No. The government in Cuba has gone backward in the last couple of years from my view and has become more repressive.

	04-06-2005 01:06									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Muad'Dib Yep. Bush should go on TV, call Castro an irrelevant old fart, and tell us to spend our dollars like there's no tomorrow down there. Effects: 1) Cubans realize that capitalism is greater the Socialism. 2) Cubans become restless, start demanding more freedoms 3) Castro goes nuts and cracks down harder. 4) Cubans don't stand for his his s**t anymore. 5) Bye, bye Castro and cronies. 6) Cuba becomes the Vegas of the Caribbean. Which is what is was going to be hadn't Castro F'd up.

Yes, shame on Castro for having gotten rid of the US-originating corporations in his country that were shamelessly promoting gross inequality and substandard working conditions.

	04-06-2005 01:09									#6
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40 years of sanctions and pressure has given us enormous political and geocapital results.

Full diplomatic relations, I wouldn't bother, but travel restrictions and embargos are ridiculous. Let the markets decide if there's any room or need for anything from Cuba besides rum and ceegars in our markets, and if they've got the cashola and want to buy our stuff, so be it. Same with individual travel.

We certainly haven't blinked too hard, now or ever, at a lot of other repressive governments. In China's case, we even seem to kiss their ass and bend over on trade issues.

	04-06-2005 01:13									#7
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yes - normalize that mother****er. castro will be dead in two years anyways.

	04-06-2005 01:14									#8
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Yes, shame on Castro for having gotten rid of the US-originating corporations in his country that were shamelessly promoting gross inequality and substandard working conditions.

Yeah, and la revolucion sure as hell brought them good working conditions and desirable equality (i.e. something more than "you're all equal - equally powerless peasants")

I think Castro was far less bad than Batista and whatever would have followed him, but I also think by now that in the absense of Castro, Batistaesque thugokleptocracy would have gone by the wayside too. Whether the Cuban people would have been any better off now is a toss up, but in terms of future opportunity, they'll be better off once Castro's revolucion moves into the history books.

	04-06-2005 01:14									#9
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I believe Castro is already dead, and they are pulling a "Weekend at Berny's" on us.

	04-06-2005 01:14									#10
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Famous last words. Castro v 2.0 will gain consciousness in a Linux cluster in Havana.

	04-06-2005 01:18									#11
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crap... the 6 Million Peso Leader

We have the technology
We can rebuild him...

of course, all his parts come from a 1954 Chevy 205 and he spends most of his time broken down along the side of the road

	04-06-2005 01:18									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Muad'Dib 6) Cuba becomes the Vegas of the Caribbean. Which is what is was going to be hadn't Castro F'd up.

Give me Fidel over Vegas any day.

It's amazing that you think cubans should be privelaleged to be a gambling and prostitution resort for americans.

	04-06-2005 01:21									#13
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As opposed to cane cutters or banana pickers.

	04-06-2005 01:22									#14
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quote: It's amazing that you think cubans should be privelaleged to be a gambling and prostitution resort for americans.

Not just for Americans.

	04-06-2005 01:22									#15
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The should be excellent swimmers.

	04-06-2005 01:24									#16
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat As opposed to cane cutters or banana pickers.

I'd rather be picking banana's than be some fat american's *****.

	04-06-2005 01:25									#17
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American's like Banana's

thanks beiach!

	04-06-2005 04:07									#18
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Yes, sanctions should be lifted and relations normalized.

No, they won't be. The Cuban exiles don't want it. Ticking off that voting block means loosing Florida. And if you're running for Prez, you really, really want Florida.

	04-06-2005 05:07									#19
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No and we need to unnormalize relations with those other countries.

	04-06-2005 05:09									#20
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quote: No, they won't be. The Cuban exiles don't want it. Ticking off that voting block means loosing Florida. And if you're running for Prez, you really, really want Florida.

I'm tired of hearing about Florida. You do not need to win Florida to become President. In 2008 I will vote for the President-candidate that most fervently campaigns for nuking that hellhole away.

(After, of course, airlifting Che and Bunnygrll to somewhere civilized.)

	04-06-2005 05:11									#21
	Re: Should the U.S. normalize relations with Cuba Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Pax Don't you think it's time to bury the hatchet?

Yes. In his head.

	04-06-2005 05:14									#22
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sure why not.

	04-06-2005 06:06									#23
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How about we drop the sanctions when Castro gives us back the American property he nationalized?

	04-06-2005 07:17									#24
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When Castro came to power, Americans were heart-broken that their elitist playground was taken away from them.

	04-06-2005 07:27									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi How about we drop the sanctions when Castro gives us back the American property he nationalized?

How about those companies refused compensation forty years ago, therefore Cuba owes us nothing. How about we compensate Cuba for the illegal embargo and the terrorism we sponsored against the country?

	04-06-2005 07:59									#26
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What illegal embargo? I'm not aware that we are under any real obligation to trade with them.

	04-06-2005 08:18									#27
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Many people have made lucrative careers of pointing out inconsistencies in US foreign policy, and to me the continued embargo on Cuba is only the most glaring inconsistency in US foreign policy. It is descendent of American paternalism in the Caribbean and only engenders the deep-seated disdain for America that many people in the Caribbean, Latin America, and South America feel for this country. The embargo should be lifted and diplomatic relations gradually, if not completely, normalized. It would benefit both countries.

As for the argument "Castro is a bastard," spare me. On the scale of bastards, Islam Karimov is the most fatherless of them all. Cynically maintaining power in the name of restraining a dubious threat from what he terms "Islamic fundamentalists," he receives millions in US aid because of bases we have stationed there. Need I point out other inconsistencies in which dictators we do and do not support?

	04-06-2005 08:28									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler Yes, sanctions should be lifted and relations normalized. No, they won't be. The Cuban exiles don't want it. Ticking off that voting block means loosing Florida. And if you're running for Prez, you really, really want Florida.

Zkrib gets it.



We are normalizing with Vietnam, and are now their biggest trading partner. They are still Communist.

Many American companies now have major operations in Vietnam.

There is abosolutley NO POINT to holding a grudge with Cuba, and, as Zkribbler, said, treatment of Cuba is 100% because of what the exiles in Miami want.

Picking on Cuba gets nobody absolutley anything.

	04-06-2005 08:29									#29
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Well, it does serve the interests of the exiles, which is something.

	04-06-2005 08:43									#30
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Well, yeah.