04-06-2005 17:18									#1
	Jesus wore rags, Religous leaders wear silk. Got spare money?

Ok, Jesus didn't exactly wear rags, but his clothing was not exactly top-stuff.

Jesus taught to give up your valuables, but why do so many christians/catholics (religous leaders) wear very expensive clothing, wear make-up, expensive hair cuts, the lot for photo shoots?

Isn't this greed and vain?

	04-06-2005 17:20									#2
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No, it's PR.

	04-06-2005 17:21									#3
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It's proof religious leaders have more fashion sense than some long dead Galilean punk. More power to them.

	04-06-2005 17:26									#4
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Assuming there was a historical Jesus.


However, there have been several anti-property movements within the Catholic Church and in Protestant denominations- Franciscans, Levellers, Ranters, Diggers.

Matthew 19:24

'And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. '

But don't take it seriously, unlike those bits about homosexuality being a bad thing.

	04-06-2005 17:30									#5
	Got spare money?

I'm not exactly a major proponent of greed and ostentatious consumption, but holding up poverty as a positive good always struck me as perverse.

	04-06-2005 17:34									#6
	Re: Jesus wore rags, Religous leaders wear silk. Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Sn00py Ok, Jesus didn't exactly wear rags, but his clothing was not exactly top-stuff. Jesus taught to give up your valuables, but why do so many christians/catholics (religous leaders) wear very expensive clothing, wear make-up, expensive hair cuts, the lot for photo shoots? Isn't this greed and vain?

If you're interested in a serious answer as to why religious leaders do not take on a life of poverty as Jesus did, and why as a part of liturgial functions they wear what they do, I reccomend you go to a Christian forum and ask why, where there are people who are very knowledgable about Christianity and could give you a good answer.

On the other hand, if you were simply looking to start a religion-bashing thread, then you asked your question in the right place.

	04-06-2005 17:54									#7
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Or just ask Jesus:


Sell your possessions, and give alms.

...he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor.

Give to everyone who begs from you.

And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables.


Clearly he's giving advice on where to invest, off-shore banking facilities in the tax haven of Tyre, and tax deductions for charitable donations.

	04-06-2005 18:59									#8
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Exactyly which religious leaders are rich? Catholic priests own next to nothing. The pay for Protestant priests, preachers and etc. is generally well below the average for someone with a comparable college education. Some parts of the ceremonial vestments may be silk, but the priests and preachers don't own them. You might as well accuse servents of a household that provides a really snazzy livery of being rich.

	04-06-2005 20:21									#9
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Well, it seems to me his gripe is more at the Televangelist crowd, in which case, it seems pretty valid. Ever see the sets on some of those fundie shows? Everything is gilded and velvet, and they're all wearing $500+ outfits. And if anyone things Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell live lives of poverty...ha!

	04-06-2005 23:10									#10
	Re: Jesus wore rags, Religous leaders wear silk. Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Sn00py Ok, Jesus didn't exactly wear rags, but his clothing was not exactly top-stuff. Jesus taught to give up your valuables, but why do so many christians/catholics (religous leaders) wear very expensive clothing, wear make-up, expensive hair cuts, the lot for photo shoots? Isn't this greed and vain?

in other news the catholic church has just agreed to over a $100 million for the church abuse scandal. So maybe they won't be wearing as expensive clothes as before.

aww, who am I kidding. There are many more people lining up to put money in the cash collecion trays.

	04-06-2005 23:33									#11
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I've put in a few bucks. The catholic church needs my help.

	04-06-2005 23:34									#12
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That's a hard sell.

	05-06-2005 07:37									#13
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One of the things that shocked me about the death of Pope John Paul II is his will. He had nothing to give away, because he owned nothing himself.

All of these vestments, and the rest of the finery, do not belong to the priests, but to the parish. They pledge their lives in service to the church, and in return, they get paid very little, and end up living on the church grounds rather than having to pay for their own place.

Now, for the pastors, Apostle Paul says that it is good for the pastors to receive support from the community so that they can focus solely on their mission. Even though Paul had a day job, that does not prevent other elders in the churches from living off the support from the community.

Finally, my pastor was a doctor who was pastor of our Russian community, and did so out of his desire to serve God. He never received a penny, and the best clothes he wore, I am sure that he wore well before he became a pastor at my church.

	05-06-2005 07:39									#14
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quote: I reccomend you go to a Christian forum and ask why, where there are people who are very knowledgable about Christianity and could give you a good answer.

Anyone who asks, receives.

	05-06-2005 07:52									#15
	Got spare money?

the scripture for this Sunday was from Mathew, about the pharisees criticising Jesus for eating with prostitutes and tax collectors

I'm always amused at the way the clergy tear into the pharisees without the slightest hint of irony

I can't really imagine my current Parish priest sitting down to eat a meal with prostitutes

To cap it off, the nice young man from the parish finance got up after the sermon to ask us to renew our envelope contributions

	05-06-2005 07:56									#16
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quote: I can't really imagine my current Parish priest sitting down to eat a meal with

Really? I can't imagine AH doing the same.

	05-06-2005 08:00									#17
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I've done more than eaten meals with prostitutes my son.

*pats little Ben on the head*

	05-06-2005 08:07									#18
	Got spare money?

but as it happens I did regularly give some working girls a feed and chance of a night off in my murky past

of course they'd often just go trotting back to business after

If you understood the gospel Ben you'd realise they are just people and probably closer to God than you or I in our Sunday best and with our nice comfortable lives.

	05-06-2005 08:50									#19
	Re: Re: Jesus wore rags, Religous leaders wear silk. Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi If you're interested in a serious answer as to why religious leaders do not take on a life of poverty as Jesus did, and why as a part of liturgial functions they wear what they do, I reccomend you go to a Christian forum and ask why, where there are people who are very knowledgable about Christianity and could give you a good answer. On the other hand, if you were simply looking to start a religion-bashing thread, then you asked your question in the right place.

	05-06-2005 08:57									#20
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quote: you'd realise they are just people and probably closer to God than you or I in our Sunday best and with our nice comfortable lives.

Who do you think I spent my last birthday party with?

I think you would be surprised by my 'nice comfortable life' and you are welcome to it if you think that is the case.

	05-06-2005 09:00									#21
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Wait a minute, did Ben Kenobi really migrate to Texas?

	05-06-2005 09:02									#22
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A Jedi is selfless.

	05-06-2005 09:04									#23
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A Jedi knows the differenc between good delivery pizza and bad delivery pizza.

	05-06-2005 09:04									#24
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Texas

	05-06-2005 09:09									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Who do you think I spent my last birthday party with? I think you would be surprised by my 'nice comfortable life' and you are welcome to it if you think that is the case.

good well stop being a pompous judgemental ass then

	05-06-2005 09:13									#26
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quote: Wait a minute, did Ben Kenobi really migrate to Texas?

Indeed I have. 'Migrate' means that I do return, so don't celebrate too much.

	05-06-2005 09:15									#27
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quote: good well stop being a pompous judgemental ass then

Pompous?

Now tell me how you really feel.

	05-06-2005 09:18									#28
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uh oh - i see another change of religion coming on

	05-06-2005 09:23									#29
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Southern Batptist here we come!!!

	05-06-2005 09:26									#30
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yep, can't you just see it?