06-06-2005 00:07									#1
	Here come the Indian hordes , they're taking our jobs ! Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Link

quote: Originally posted by the Economic Times Non-IITians get a fix of the world ABHISHEK SHANKER TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ SATURDAY, JUNE 04, 2005 12:39:03 AM] Surf 'N' Earn -Sign innow AHMEDABAD: The world will soon open up for the over-three lakh engineering graduates Indian universities churn out every year. These non-IIT engineers will soon be globe-trotting for higher studies or lucrative jobs without having to go through the grind, thanks to an All-India Council for Technical Education (AICTE) initiative to get them recognised globally. The apex body of technical education in the country is hoping to become a part of the Washington Accord, which accredits all undergraduate engineering programmes in member countries and is recognised equally by all members, by the end of this year. IIT engineers, by virtue of the brand equity their institutes enjoy across the globe — especially in the US, have always been welcomed by foreign universities and employers. But graduates from other engineering colleges have found it difficult to impress higher education institutes abroad and employers. A high-level team from the Accord recently visited AICTE and suggested measures to streamline the process of accreditation in India. This is to be followed by another round of meetings on June 15 in Hong Kong. “We are hopeful that in the next six months we will have provisional membership, which is a precursor to becoming a full-fledged member of the accord,” a top official at AICTE told ET. “Once a programme is accredited, students of that course can enroll for higher studies or take up jobs in any one of the member countries and to any other country that recognises the accord,” the official said. At present, the accord has membership from eight countries, including the much sought after destinations — the US and the UK — apart from other new destinations like Australia, Ireland, Hong Kong, South Africa and New Zealand. In addition, the accord also has four provisional members — Germany, Japan, Malaysia and Singapore. The demand for Indian engineers is expected to grow manifold in the free world order being ushered in by the World Trade Organisation (WTO). There will be a free mobility of human capital. Countries like the UK and the US are already chalking out strategies to absorb this movement of skilled human capital from countries like India and China. The accreditation will be provided by the International Accreditation team.

What do you think will be the American reaction to this ? Resentment ? Anger ? Xenophobia ? Or will we be welcomed with open arms ( fat chance ) ?

	06-06-2005 01:15									#2
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Here is how this will go down:

1) Our labor HATES you guys

2) Bill Gates LOVES you guys

3) Our Administration is a WHORE to big business

End Result: Most likely this means you will be given the opportunity to get in but will be resented by labor groups, you will be sortof like high tech Mexicans

	06-06-2005 02:01									#3
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We already fear and hate you and what's a lahk?

	06-06-2005 02:20									#4
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A lakh (also spelled lac) is a unit in a traditional number system, still widely used in India, equal to a hundred thousand. A hundred lakhs make a crore.

Wikipedia

	06-06-2005 09:37									#5
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You guys rock. You're willing to study hard, work hard, sacrifice, and do what you have to to get ahead.

Sure, we hate you, and for the same reason we hated the Japanese in the '80s: you actually still have the values that are, for us, only a memory.

	06-06-2005 09:51									#6
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Better than Indian telemarketers pretending to be called Elvis. (i **** you not)

	06-06-2005 10:26									#7
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Actually, you will not be received that well. There is a big drop off in skills as you go from the the top schools to the 2nd and 3rd tier schools. Somewhere in between the 2nd and 3rd tier skill levels, the cost/productivity no longer makes hiring Indians attractive. You will have to start competing against the top level Chinese, Philippino, and Russian IT graduates.

	06-06-2005 12:18									#8
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Actually, degrees aren't as important as memberships in professional societies and professional certifications.

	06-06-2005 12:22									#9
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The one good side of this is that there are alot of good Indian, Russian, and Filipino web developers out there, so for the small business person, you can get a kick azz site done at 1/4 of the price.

(No offense Chegitz, I know they are in direct competition with you).

On the other hand, big corps should keep their money stateside, as their going to get the best value for their money with developing their apps here. Big corps also benefit from keeping their web money stateside because it's alot easier to maintain things.

	06-06-2005 12:24									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker The one good side of this is that there are alot of good Indian, Russian, and Filipino web developers out there, so for the small business person, you can get a kick azz site done at 1/4 of the price.

Generally, the requirement for constant communications keep the jobs local.

	06-06-2005 12:25									#11
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Yep

	06-06-2005 12:26									#12
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Indians and Filipinos make excellent techies usually because they speak great English.

Russians don't speak English so good, but (in my opinon) have one of the best all around educational systems in the world, so can learn pretty much anything they set their minds to.

	06-06-2005 14:37									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Indians and Filipinos make excellent techies usually because they speak great English.

Some do, others don't.

I remember the Indian grad students in the CS courses. Nobody except the prof could understand what they said, and he'd proceed to answer the questions.

Amazing

	06-06-2005 21:11									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker (No offense Chegitz, I know they are in direct competition with you).

I have no problem with foreign competition. I've known this was coming since the early 90s. Indian brains are every bit as good as American ones, so it was only a matter of time. I've seen some ****in' amazing Indian websites that have just blown my mind. Now I have more influences for my designs.

As far as design goes, there isn't as much of a compeition, because a lot of design rests on implicit cultural references. If I was a web developer, I'd be a lot more worried.

	08-06-2005 09:29									#15
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There go the Indian hordes!

http://news.com.com/Offshore+outsou...ml?tag=nefd.top

quote: Offshore outsourcing satisfaction drops Published: June 7, 2005, 5:25 PM PDT By Ed Frauenheim Staff Writer, CNET News.com TrackBack Print E-mail TalkBack Offshore outsourcing isn't as gratifying as it used to be, according to a report released Tuesday by a consulting firm. DiamondCluster International's annual study of information technology outsourcing found that the number of buyers satisfied with their "offshoring" providers has fallen from 79 percent to 62 percent. In addition, the number of buyers prematurely terminating an outsourcing relationship has doubled to 51 percent. "The blame cannot be heaped solely on the shoulders of providers," DiamondCluster consultant Tom Weakland said in a statement. "Many buyers are now several years into at least one outsourcing relationship, but they still lack effective measures to gauge the success of their outsourcing initiatives, which are critical for knowing and getting what you want." The report is based on surveys and in-depth discussions with 210 senior IT executives at "global 1000" companies and with 242 senior executives at outsourcing service providers in the United States, India and other countries. Research was conducted in late 2004 and early 2005. Outsourcing refers to farming out tasks to a separate company. That company's operations might be in a lower-wage nation, which makes for so-called offshoring. IT head honchos are planning to push more of their tech tasks to low-wage countries, according to a Merrill Lynch survey earlier this year. Business leaders defend offshoring as ultimately good for the U.S. economy and its workers. Critics of shipping high-wage work to lower-cost countries are concerned about job loss in the United States. In the short run, at least, U.S. techies may be more the losers than gainers when it comes to offshore outsourcing of IT work. A report last year sponsored by the Information Technology Association of America trade group on offshore outsourcing of software and IT services indicated that sacrifices by U.S. IT workers would result in an improved U.S. economy overall. Ballmer's bullish outlook Get ready for the 9-to-5 notebook Apple's switch: It's Intel inside Previous Next Politicians have entered the fray. Recently, the House of Representatives passed "Buy American" legislation that would force the Department of Homeland Security to buy products mostly made in America. According to the new DiamondCluster report, worries about anti-outsourcing legislation and political pressure have waned, but 88 percent of buyers remain concerned about employee backlash. The study also found increased interest in sending tech work to China. Forty percent of buyers expect to outsource some IT functions to China during the next three to five years compared with 8 percent last year, the report said.

	08-06-2005 09:51									#16
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In the long run, America will become more like the rest of the world - prosperous cities and a poor and angry countryside.

	08-06-2005 10:00									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Smiley In the long run, America will become more like the rest of the world - prosperous cities and a poor and angry countryside.

No! We are America! We are exceptional!

We will have prosperous countrysides and poor and angry cities...

	08-06-2005 12:34									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Smiley In the long run, America will become more like the rest of the world - prosperous cities and a poor and angry countryside.

Then again it depends.

Cities are no longer needed when the manufacturing base is dismantled.

	08-06-2005 14:05									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly No! We are America! We are exceptional! We will have prosperous countrysides and poor and angry cities...

That's all us red staters are asking for! Maybe we can all get along.

	08-06-2005 17:00									#20
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Indian food - yummy

	08-06-2005 21:26									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Smiley In the long run, America will become more like the rest of the world - prosperous cities and a poor and angry countryside.

We already have that.

	08-06-2005 21:42									#22
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At least they can't outsource my job.

	08-06-2005 21:46									#23
	Re: Here come the Indian hordes , they're taking our jobs ! Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by aneeshm Link What do you think will be the American reaction to this ? Resentment ? Anger ? Xenophobia ? Or will we be welcomed with open arms ( fat chance ) ?

That's "loaded arms" not open arms.

	08-06-2005 21:46									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon At least they can't outsource my job.

Wanna bet?

	08-06-2005 21:47									#25
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What does Agathon do?

	08-06-2005 21:49									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon At least they can't outsource my job.

Why not?

	08-06-2005 21:50									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Maquiladora Better than Indian telemarketers pretending to be called Elvis. (i **** you not)

As soon as I hear that accent I put the phone down, pain in the arse!

	08-06-2005 21:52									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Japher What does Agathon do?

He's a philosophy prof. They may not be able to outsource your job overseas yet (but they will be able to do so when virtual classrooms become a reality), but they can certainly get rid of your position and hire temp proffs to do the work for less. It's a big problem here in the States. I had a comrade who worked three of these temp positions at two different unis just to make ends meet. Tenure is a thing of the past.

	08-06-2005 22:20									#29
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara He's a philosophy prof. They may not be able to outsource your job overseas yet (but they will be able to do so when virtual classrooms become a reality), but they can certainly get rid of your position and hire temp proffs to do the work for less. It's a big problem here in the States. I had a comrade who worked three of these temp positions at two different unis just to make ends meet. Tenure is a thing of the past.

That's not true. It's just not the case that you can walk into it, which is a good thing. I interviewed for two tenure track jobs last year. If I'd actually finished my dissertation I probably would have snagged one of them, but that's another story..

The temp 2-3 year contracts in philosophy are not that bad. I know a lot of people who've had them and it is certainly helpful when applying for a tenure track job. I have to pull finger and make a bigger effort this year. God knows where I'll end up.

	08-06-2005 22:21									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Asher There go the Indian hordes! http://news.com.com/Offshore+outsou...ml?tag=nefd.top

I've actually seen alot of retrenchment lately with regards to outsourcing.

First is the quality of service, that drops rapidly. (There's a reason companies have managers, you can't just throw work at a group and then just expect results without the interaction that goes with steering the group).

Then there is the backlash, as mentioned in that article. Fortune Magazine article recently said this was the most anemic job market in about 60 years. It doesn't look good when people want jobs and your company hires a bunch of people that don't even live here.