07-06-2005 22:00									#31
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I scare the gentry and am frequently filthy. Should I be locked up?

Yes. Do you really need to ask?

	07-06-2005 22:09									#32
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That's mostly 'cause you're a commie, though. Pinko bastards don't belong in these great United States.

	07-06-2005 22:12									#33
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I think people with mental illness should be put in assylums. Living on the street is not humane. A lot of them rarely even go to shelters, probably because they can't stay sober, and the shelters won't let them in drunk. Living on the street, sleeping in the gutter, and just drinking yourself to death is no life. Assylums should be made better.

	07-06-2005 23:13									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Space05us Ive noticed there are alot of them around here. I even had one stumble towards me in a drunken stuppor on my walk to work. Luckily just stepping to the side was enough to avoid any situation. From what Ive heard some of them make a decent living from begging, $100 a day or more. Thats almost twice what I make. What are your thoughts about them? Do you think there is any way to get them off the streets?

yeah, you don't see them up in Barrow, Alaska for some strange reason.

You will see lots of them in the southwest. We have thousands in our city. It's serious problem, but no one knows a solution.

	07-06-2005 23:17									#35
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I scare the gentry and am frequently filthy. Should I be locked up?

all communists should be locked up.

sorry, you left yourself open for that one. , I guess Qcubed already beat me to it.

	08-06-2005 00:42									#36
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A large part of the homeless people are substance abusers. It's a very sad issue.

I think they should all go through "recycling" - Clean them up, including any substances, if they're addicts. then send them to learn a trade - and there you go.

	08-06-2005 01:09									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Az A large part of the homeless people are substance abusers. It's a very sad issue.

Agreed.

quote: Originally posted by Az I think they should all go through "recycling" - Clean them up, including any substances, if they're addicts. then send them to learn a trade - and there you go.

Brilliant!! Lets just make all substance abuser into people that don't abuse substances. How come no one thought of that before !!! {Sarcasm OFF}

Sorry man but your solution was so simplistic as to invite ridicule. Yoou might as well say that the cure for unemployment is to give people jobs

	08-06-2005 01:16									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious I think people with mental illness should be put in assylums. Living on the street is not humane. A lot of them rarely even go to shelters, probably because they can't stay sober, and the shelters won't let them in drunk. Living on the street, sleeping in the gutter, and just drinking yourself to death is no life. Assylums should be made better.

What about the people that seem quite competent but simply abuse alcohol and drugs?? Would there be some sort of competency test to stay out of the asylum??

I agree that we should do more to care for the mentally ill but in a free society, once a person is competent, its difficult to force them to do anything.

Attempts to help the homeless can seem to backfire. Calgary built a new large multistory shelter and facility on beautiful grounds next to the river. The result of that was an large increase of homeless in the area such that the park is no longer a nice place to bring your children. Another area saw a huge increase when a small pharmacy opened up that would supply methadone-- Numbers seemed to triple. So if you better the condition of you homeless, you seem to increase your problem

	08-06-2005 01:23									#39
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Most of the homeless people are homeless for a reason. They either have mental disorders or some form of addiction which makes them unable to hold a job. The best way to deal with homelessness is with a two pronged policy 1) You offer free treatment for addiction and/or mental health care for those who want it 2) You crack down hard on ever little infraction you can find.

The purpose of #1 is to help people treat the underlying causes of homelessness and the purpose of #2 is motivate/harass people to take the big step towards getting drug/alcohol treatment since continuing to be homeless would be intolerable. Even San Francisco has finally come around to this way of thinking and has stopped the cash handouts to homeless people (which normally got spent on drugs or booze anyway) & has started enforcing vargancy and loitering laws.

The net result is people are forced to either get enrolled in the treatment program or go some where else but it doesn't give people the option of just continuing to use their welfare to feed their addiction and stay homeless.

	08-06-2005 01:28									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Flubber What about the people that seem quite competent but simply abuse alcohol and drugs?? Would there be some sort of competency test to stay out of the asylum?? I agree that we should do more to care for the mentally ill but in a free society, once a person is competent, its difficult to force them to do anything.

I wasn't saying that competent people should be forced into asylums.

quote: Attempts to help the homeless can seem to backfire. Calgary built a new large multistory shelter and facility on beautiful grounds next to the river. The result of that was an large increase of homeless in the area such that the park is no longer a nice place to bring your children. Another area saw a huge increase when a small pharmacy opened up that would supply methadone-- Numbers seemed to triple. So if you better the condition of you homeless, you seem to increase your problem

I really don't call that a backfire. Bring your kids to a different park.

	08-06-2005 01:34									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Most of the homeless people are homeless for a reason. They either have mental disorders or some form of addiction which makes them unable to hold a job. The best way to deal with homelessness is with a two pronged policy 1) You offer free treatment for addiction and/or mental health care for those who want it 2) You crack down hard on ever little infraction you can find. The purpose of #1 is to help people treat the underlying causes of homelessness and the purpose of #2 is motivate/harass people to take the big step towards getting drug/alcohol treatment since continuing to be homeless would be intolerable. Even San Francisco has finally come around to this way of thinking and has stopped the cash handouts to homeless people (which normally got spent on drugs or booze anyway) & has started enforcing vargancy and loitering laws. The net result is people are forced to either get enrolled in the treatment program or go some where else but it doesn't give people the option of just continuing to use their welfare to feed their addiction and stay homeless.

I find this post extremely offensive. Obviously you don't put yourself in the same situation and ask yourself how you would like to be treated.

	08-06-2005 01:36									#42
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I would welcome the chance to get drug treatment and rid myself of addiction.

	08-06-2005 02:32									#43
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quote: Originally posted by pchang I would welcome the chance to get drug treatment and rid myself of addiction.

And if you weren't addicted? Would you like some pig to come and tell you to get off the street?

	08-06-2005 02:35									#44
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Calling cops pigs = lame ass.

	08-06-2005 02:35									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious I really don't call that a backfire. Bring your kids to a different park.

A bit flip today aren't we sir kidicious. You know that my kids going to that park wasn't the point (although if I lived in the area I might be peeved since its hardly safe to walk there anymore since many of the homeless are frequently intoxicated or belligerent)

The point was that calgary went out of their way to provide better services for homeless people and the net result was that there seems to be a lot more of them . . . and its not economic conditions since Calgary is booming and low end employment opportunities are numerous. . . and if you can get a trade, its not hard to start making 100K in a few years--

	08-06-2005 02:37									#46
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Calling cops pigs = lame ass.

Telling homeless people to get off the street = lame ass pig.

	08-06-2005 02:39									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Flubber A bit flip today aren't we sir kidicious. You know that my kids going to that park wasn't the point (although if I lived in the area I might be peeved since its hardly safe to walk there anymore since many of the homeless are frequently intoxicated or belligerent) The point was that calgary went out of their way to provide better services for homeless people and the net result was that there seems to be a lot more of them . . . and its not economic conditions since Calgary is booming and low end employment opportunities are numerous. . . and if you can get a trade, its not hard to start making 100K in a few years--

Maybe they put the shelter in Whity Land. You all never knew all those homeless existed before.

And yes, I'm always flip.

	08-06-2005 02:43									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious I find this post extremely offensive. Obviously you don't put yourself in the same situation and ask yourself how you would like to be treated.

I don't see what was so offensive about it. I'd bet that studies would show a majority of homelss have an addiction problem or some sort of mental disorder. I would be speaking of what I have seen in Canada. The homeless for purely economic reasons (disability or simply losing a job) are less frequent since the social safety net in most provinces includes subsidized housing (in either government or private buildings). The jobless may not live well but they usually have a roof.

The fact that a homeless person may be an addict does not mean they should not be treated with some respect. I think that's the least we owe any person

In a booming town like calgary, everyone that is competent could get a job and most pay reasonably well. There's a crying need for labour in the construction trades for instance and if you can show up clean and sober, a job is yours.

	08-06-2005 02:47									#49
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There's a lot of homeless people in the US who live in their cars. Some even have jobs. I wouldn't guess that this kind of homelessness is due to drug abuse or mental illness.

But I don't think that's the kind of homelessness to which Oerdin was referring. It wasn't the kind about which I was talking.

	08-06-2005 02:57									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Flubber I don't see what was so offensive about it.

Oerdin was talking about California. In San Diego rent is very high and you can't stay in the shelter every night. I don't know if every homeless person is an alcoholic and/or a drug addict. It really doesn't matter. People shouldn't be harrassed. If they have a problem they should recieve help, not abuse.

	08-06-2005 02:57									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious And yes, I'm always flip.

No dispute here

quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Maybe they put the shelter in Whity Land. You all never knew all those homeless existed before.

Well Calgary doesn't have the racial segregation you see in the states so we don't have a whitey land. Oh and most homeless I see are white (maybe 20% are native).

But the shelter was built in the downtown on the edge of the business district and bordering the Bow river. The Bow has beautiful walking trails running through small forested areas and is just minutes (walking) from the bulk of the office towers, as well as a two or three residential areas (higher-income and lower income areas both)-- Its an area enjoyed by most citizens of the area and was a big attraction in the downtown

But the parklike grounds have been largely taken over by the homeless with the resulting refuse and excrement that you might expect.

I can wish to respect a homelss person all I want but I will not have my 2 year old son playing 10 feet from a large smelly obviously drunken man and I suspect 99.9% or parents regardless of color would feel the same way. So the homeless use of ther park is precluding others from using it. Is that fair?? If I went to the park and played music too loud, I would expect that this disturbance should not be tolerated. My use of the park must be compatible with the uses of others. Why shouldn't the homeless play by the same rules

	08-06-2005 03:06									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Flubber My use of the park must be compatible with the uses of others. Why shouldn't the homeless play by the same rules

All I can say to that is have a place for the homeless to go. Don't just tell them to get out of the park. If they are drug addicts get them into a treatment center. If they are insane get them into an asylum. If they just need a place to go, then get them in one.

	08-06-2005 03:14									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious I don't know if every homeless person is an alcoholic and/or a drug addict. It really doesn't matter.

I'd bet they are not but I'd bet that many have issues and if you add in mental disease you would probably get to a majority

quote: Originally posted by Kidicious People shouldn't be harrassed. If they have a problem they should recieve help, not abuse.

Agreed without dispute.

In the people not being harrassed category though is a non-homeless person's right to walk the street without being accosted. Most homeless are polite bnut some begging is so persistent that ity starts to look like a mugging

	08-06-2005 03:17									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious All I can say to that is have a place for the homeless to go. Don't just tell them to get out of the park. If they are drug addicts get them into a treatment center. If they are insane get them into an asylum. If they just need a place to go, then get them in one.

How do you force people to go places they do not want to go?

Also I don't advocate kicking people out of the park. A homeless person can stay there all day long if they aren't causing a disturbance or mess.

	08-06-2005 03:19									#55
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1. A significant number of homeless men are veterans.

2. In the past few years the population of homeless women and children has grown dramatically. IN NYC today close to 20% of homeless IIC are children.

IN dealing with homeless, chelters are a poor idea-one needs more permanent solutions, like relocation to cheaper housing, coupled with treatment for those with mental and medical issues, as well as job counceling.

	08-06-2005 03:19									#56
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There are quite a few in Indianapolis. We had a mental hospital shut down about 10 years ago in the city, and the 400 or so patients were just let go....truly a sad situation. Everyday I walk by an abandoned garage area that smells of urine, and I see other results of its habitation.

	08-06-2005 03:29									#57
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quote: Originally posted by GePap IN dealing with homeless, chelters are a poor idea-one needs more permanent solutions, like relocation to cheaper housing, coupled with treatment for those with mental and medical issues, as well as job counceling.

Agreed that shelters are a stopgap at best and what is needed is more affordable housing. It doesn't have to be fancy but a space that people can take pride in as their own. This is probably particularly true in some of the more affluent cities in the US where the workforce quite literally can no longer afford to live there

	08-06-2005 03:30									#58
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quote: Originally posted by GePap \2. In the past few years the population of homeless women and children has grown dramatically. IN NYC today close to 20% of homeless IIC are children.

Now that is offensive !!

	08-06-2005 03:34									#59
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quote: Originally posted by DanS There's a lot of homeless people in the US who live in their cars. Some even have jobs. I wouldn't guess that this kind of homelessness is due to drug abuse or mental illness.

I would see a homeless person with a car and a job as having an entirely different problem than the street corner addicted homeless. All that car homeless person needs is affordable rent or a breather to catch up to get a security deposit.

They have very very little in common with the intoxicated unwashed street person except thet neither have a home. (Note I know of a guy in Newfoundland that did have a home but still preferred the Street and would sleep outside most summer nights)

	08-06-2005 03:36									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Space05us quote: I think a lot are mentally impaired, who in other societies would be taken from the streets and locked in assylums. Why cant we do that anymore anyway? Its not all that inhumane to take a person who cannot care for himself and take care of him, is it? edit: we already do the same thing with minors who are pretty much homeless.

Funding.