08-06-2005 21:24									#121
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It helps the people in whose area the homelessness decreases, and it helps the homeless by giving them a shelter. It harms the area where homeless increases, which is why new shelters should be chosen with care.

	08-06-2005 21:42									#122
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara It helps the people in whose area the homelessness decreases, and it helps the homeless by giving them a shelter. It harms the area where homeless increases, which is why new shelters should be chosen with care.

Ya thats a real compelling case to bring to city council-- "Yes Calgary, if you spend all this money, our problem will get worse but you'll be happy to know that we solved it for others"

	08-06-2005 21:50									#123
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I expect that other areas within Calgary saw a drop in their homelessness as people moved to the new neighborhood.

I wonder, though, why anyone would want to be homeless in Calgary, when they could go to Vancouver, and not freeze to death.

	08-06-2005 21:52									#124
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Flubber makes the point of NIMBY and shared responsibility - not so much the "Not in my backyard" but the fact the the costs of this kind of solution must be shared or the the social compact that lets taxpayers agree on this break down.

Economists have done some fascinating studies about people who will take advantage of altuistic behavior to avoid paying a fair share of their costs for various activities. It can be an economically advantageous behavior, as long as it does not become so widespread as to endager the continuance of the activity that they gain a free advantage from.

That is why universal taxation is necessary, and why programs to deal with the mentally need to have a similiar kind of coverage. You will always have a politician who will say - see, you don't have to pay taxes for this, those silly types over in Calgary (or a blue state) will pay for it." Promising lower taxes and claiming you can have something for nothing seems to have universal appeal, though personally I always find it suspect. TANSTAFL (Their ain't no such thing as a free lunch).

	08-06-2005 22:02									#125
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I expect that other areas within Calgary saw a drop in their homelessness as people moved to the new neighborhood.

It moved a lot of them about 10-15 blocks from a mixed office/apartment building zone into an area where you are right on the border between the glass office towers and a major park area on the river. Outside the homeless shelter itself its probably less home-less friendly area. The park is nice but all the restaurants and stores in the towers close by 5 or 6 pm so washroom facilities may be a challenge . . . No sheltered green space in the lee of a building either. They are either in the park with no amenities at all or in among 30 story towers of glass with just concrete or ashphalt to lean on

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I wonder, though, why anyone would want to be homeless in Calgary, when they could go to Vancouver, and not freeze to death.

I don't know that anyone has frozen to death here recently but then again I don't know how widely such an event would be reported. I do know that during cold snaps they make an extra effort for people to get inside

Apart from weather, I believe the streets of vancouver are reputed to be more dangerous than those of Calgary. Apparently a lot more heavy serious drug use combined with an economy that is nowhere near matching Calgary's boom, probably means more per capita homeless there and the fights for turf and resources that can bring

	08-06-2005 22:07									#126
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quote: Originally posted by shawnmmcc Flubber makes the point of NIMBY and shared responsibility - not so much the "Not in my backyard" but the fact the the costs of this kind of solution must be shared or the the social compact that lets taxpayers agree on this break down.

Plus municipal governments are strapped for cash. The higher governments have big surpluses while at the municipal level they are just trying to keep the rooads patched and they have been raising taxes every year as it is.

So the government most impactedhas the least resources to deal with it

	08-06-2005 22:08									#127
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quote: I've worked with them, because I had to do day labor. The ****ed up thing is that in those neighborhoods the rents are so high because the city does everything they can to keep the supply of cheap housing low, because they don't want those kind of people around.

As opposed to Vancouver where city buildings sit vacant, and rents are very high. It's an odd situation, but I think more of the no drug shelters will help. It will provide motivation for folks to seek help for their addiction, and the area that the shelters are in, won't get worse as a result.

That's the problem with the shelters that are rather lax, they attract all of the homeless to them, and drive out all the neighbours who do not want to be near one of these shelters.

I've worked with folks on the edge as well, some really interesting conversations with the day labourers. I never had to work from the same position as they did, since my employer took me on full time right away, but many of these folks prefer their freedom to a more settled, and constrained lifestyle.

	08-06-2005 22:31									#128
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Vancouver is crawling with homeless people, for the very reason that Che mentioned. However, wondering why there are so many homeless in Calgary when they can go to Vancouver is like wondering why there are so many homeless in New York or Chicago when they can go to Florida.

	08-06-2005 22:36									#129
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quote: Originally posted by Kontiki Vancouver is crawling with homeless people, for the very reason that Che mentioned. However, wondering why there are so many homeless in Calgary when they can go to Vancouver is like wondering why there are so many homeless in New York or Chicago when they can go to Florida.

Ya I'm thinking that some of the worse looking homeless are not most motorists first choice to pick up as a hitchhiker