08-06-2005 09:10									#1
	Do you think VERY VERY VERY harsh penalties will stop corporate offenders? Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Inspired by another thread......

I still say that Ken Lay should be violently executed by stock owners and employees of enron. Give em all a raffle ticket... the 10 winners execute him in a style they like(assuming after a great deal of torture) on CSPAN 2. Every other executive at Enron when this happened have all their property taken and given to the stock holders and employees they cheated, their American citizenship revoked, they should then be sterilized and dropped naked in a third world country whose language they do not speak(I recommend east Asia or sub sahara Africa for the likeliness they could catch a deadly disease-any communist nation works as well). Anyone else implicated in this at a lower level for collaboration-mandatory 10 year jail sentence.

OH and any politicians who knew about this, same idea for torture/execute raffle as above except in this instance, the constituents of that individual are entered(so the whole country for the president... their district for a congressman etc). I recommend a longer torture period(on prime time) for the politicians since they are supposed to serve US and not the stockholders.


I actually DO NOT support the death penalty..... for violent crimes. I am against abortion in all instances except rape or incest(though I am unsure how the law should handle it). I am a very NON violent guy. I am anti death penalty and anti murder!(pro life)

Executing violent criminals is not a detriment and is not acceptable. No one does less violent crimes because of the death penalty. It is revenge and absolutley NOTHING else-it does nothing but end a life for no ones gain.

WHITE COLOR criminals however are another story. No one ever accidentally defrauded the citizens of the united states and their stock holders-it is a pre-meditated and intentional act. I support the death penalty and punishments that violate the constitution for corporate offenders at the level of the enron scandle. It is an act of UTTER malice and greed and one that shows COMPLETE disregard for the worth of another human being.

These monsters are worse then our worst violent criminals, the scale of their greed has hurt more people then the Oklahoma city bomber-who is likley the single American who has commited the most murders. For good or ill massive corporations are now a vital part of the way our society functions and the people at the highest level of corporate power have power that far surpasses our elected officials. They are, completely unchecked and the levels of filth they delve into are unacceptable.

*THAT* will send a message, let these *expletives* who think they are beyond all justice know that if they are caught, their lives are effectively over(or actually, over).

#### em all.



If this ever got into law(which of course is impossible), do you think corporate fraud would continue to the near universal scale that it does today?

Last edited by Vesayen on 08-06-2005 at 18:55

	08-06-2005 09:12									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Do you think VERY VERY VERY harsh penalties will stop corporate offenders?

No.

You cook the books here, you cook the books there, and pretty soon you assume that you'll never get caught.

	08-06-2005 09:14									#3
	Inflate your Upload Space

We need to make a Soviet Style Example of a few corporations before the fraud will stop (for a while at least). The Soviets used to announce Comrade So & So was a traitor then they'd have everyone assemble for the execution and shoot comrade so & so in front of everyone. The result is people started to pay more attention to the party's directives.

Many corporations are still playing accounting games instead of following the intent of hte law. We need a few examples to be made.

	08-06-2005 09:16									#4
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

TR COME HOME

	08-06-2005 09:17									#5
	Increase the size of your Attachments

No. They'll need to add at least two more VERYs to that.

	08-06-2005 09:28									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I am perscribing execution after exetended public torture, how huch more "very" can you get? Beat them to death with baby seals?

	08-06-2005 09:34									#7
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Corruption is punishable by death in China but it still happens. Enforcement is what matters.

	08-06-2005 09:35									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

You have the most annoying thread titles, period.

	08-06-2005 09:42									#9
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Vesayen I am perscribing execution after exetended public torture, how huch more "very" can you get? Beat them to death with baby seals?

	08-06-2005 12:36									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Smiley Corruption is punishable by death in China but it still happens.

Not corporate ones though. At least not for private corporations.

	08-06-2005 12:40									#11
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I don't think executing them would help.

What should be done is to take away all the ill-gotten gain, and and a fine that is several times that. Before the fine is paid, they can't own a house, can't own a car, can't be a senior executive or in a position that has anything to do with finance, and can't be a director. Something like that.

	08-06-2005 12:58									#12
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

The revocation and liquidation of 80-90% of their assests should do the trick.

(They can keep that 10-20%, and it would still be sizeable).

The liquidation of their assests then go toward lowering the national debt. That way, their money goes to something good...or the funds go to social programs and funding of our various governmental departments.





There, wasn't that simple?

	08-06-2005 13:21									#13
	Put an end to popups!

Rapid and early punishment is a greater deterrent than extreme punishment. This means much better auditing of corporate followed by quick legal action and conviction followed by punishment that will hurt, probably a 12 month jail term and confiscation of all assets

	08-06-2005 14:13									#14
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by trev Rapid and early punishment is a greater deterrent than extreme punishment.

Some in my area would like to see the stock and the whipping post make a comeback (haven't been used here in almost 200 years).

	08-06-2005 16:23									#15
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger I don't think executing them would help.

Fun though.

	08-06-2005 17:02									#16
	Got spare money?

Harsher punishment matters little, since they assume they won't get caught.

	08-06-2005 17:04									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Bah! All that will happen is that relatively minor offenders like Martha Stewart will be made scapegoats and be torturesd.

	08-06-2005 17:12									#18
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Torturing Martha Stewart

	08-06-2005 18:13									#19
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Frankychan The revocation and liquidation of 80-90% of their assests should do the trick. (They can keep that 10-20%, and it would still be sizeable). The liquidation of their assests then go toward lowering the national debt. That way, their money goes to something good...or the funds go to social programs and funding of our various governmental departments. There, wasn't that simple?

Bahhh! Why should it go to the government? For that matter, why should fines already paid by Enron etc. be made payable to the governement. Give it to the victims, namely stockholders and employee stockholders.

	08-06-2005 18:42									#20
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Last Conformist Harsher punishment matters little, since they assume they won't get caught.

They are buisnessmen, they calculate risk VS reward on a daily basis. Maybe the risk vs reward equation will be too high for them if their life is on the line.

	08-06-2005 18:44									#21
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Vasayen, that OP was so laughably ignorant it's hardly worth rebutting.

	08-06-2005 18:52									#22
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

What is ignorant? I support penalties so harsh on corporate offenders that they will die after lenghty, painfull torture to ensure it stops. Penalties so harsh no one would dare risk them.

After the first one is televised, I doubt we'll see a second.




OH and complete amnesty to any corporate offender who comes forward to confess without being investigated-if he can help us indite others.

Oh the fun ensues as various corporate big wigs turn on each other to save their rears....

	08-06-2005 18:58									#23
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

C'mon, you just said that you don't support the death penalty on someone who would rape and kill my three year-old child, but would gladly see the death penalty applied for violations of (for ex.) FASB rule 35, section 2, revision 13, applied to the realization of revenues and losses of off-book Special Purpose Entities*.



*A made-up example.

	08-06-2005 19:03									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Do you think executing the person who would rape your child, would stop others from doing it? Of course not, anyone who would do that is deranged and unconcerned with the consequences-or thinks it will not happen to them. Violent crimes tend to be crimes of passion and not premeditated.

	08-06-2005 19:05									#25
	Got spare money?

quote: OH and complete amnesty to any corporate offender who comes forward to confess without being investigated-if he can help us indite others.

Which didn't do Mark Whitacre a bit of good when he exposed an international price-fixing scam involving ADM and other international companies. He, too, got indicted for price fixing even though he wore a wire for over 2 years, even though his evidence secured over $100million in fines, even though without him there would never have been a case.

Of course, Whitacre was a ****-up as well, but he was still granted immunity from the price-fixing charges, immunity that was pulled when the FBI decided it had enough non-Whitacre evidence to convict.

	08-06-2005 19:07									#26
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Vesayen Do you think executing the person who would rape your child, would stop others from doing it? Of course not, anyone who would do that is deranged and unconcerned with the consequences-or thinks it will not happen to them.

Of course not. Nor will it bring my child back.

In rebuttal, do you think executing people for theft will stop others from doing it?

That which you are arguing as ineffective in one example you are claiming to be effective in another, lesser, example. Quite an inconsistent position you've put yourself in!

	08-06-2005 19:10									#27
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

No, I am very consistent. Violent crimes are usually crimes of passion and not planned for.

Financial crimes are always premeditated. More importantly, anyone who commits a financial crime ala Enron who got to such a high level, is mentally competant enough to know the risk.



Violent criminals are unconcerned because of either the passion of the crime or mental issues. Corporate offenders are neither of those.

	08-06-2005 19:17									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

ALSO corporate offenders think they are not risking anything right now... and they are not. Even if they are caught their jail sentences are short and they can usually squirel away some money. Now they know if they are caught, there is consequence.

	08-06-2005 19:50									#29
	Put an end to popups!

Vesayen isn't making sense in this thread.

	08-06-2005 21:55									#30
	Tired of ads?

Ves, people don't wake up one day and rationally decide to embezzle billions. True -- it's not a compulsion, but it's still something that is part of a journey rather than a huge hurdle.