09-06-2005 21:13									#1
	Blair's government once again losing the plot... Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4075490.stm

Oh deary me. Now the intend to fit our cars with little black boxes to be able to record where we are going and on what roads. Now public transport in this country is pretty crap on the whole, so now the government has devised another way to use this to extract more money from us (up to a rate of £1.20 a mile!!!) and penalises the poor. An utterly atrocious system - it is not like the already exorbitant price of petrol is put back into dealing with improving public transport! Another cash cow that will penalise those who can least afford it!

And then there is the whole infringement of civil liberties where they can monitor the speed you drive, where you are going and your travel habits. This in addition to the national identity card that they are trying to force on us. The ID card scheme will cost us many billions of pounds, I dread to think how much this folly would set us all back!

You know, I really wish I had voted against this government now if they are going to go for stupid ideas to rip people off like this. The worrying this is that the Tories will probably nod with this and agree with it like the other unpopular Labour policies such as the war in Iraq and ID card scheme! So much for this so called 'democracy'...

	09-06-2005 21:17									#2
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"Now public transport in this country is pretty crap on the whole"

Not if you live in London (which you do) it isn't. It's absolutely excellent.

	09-06-2005 21:17									#3
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Your government sucks.

	09-06-2005 21:21									#4
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wow a plan that is both iliberal AND robs people of their money, this is like a wet dream for new labour :/

	09-06-2005 21:21									#5
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Yeah Mike, I could just about avoid driving altogether although it costs several times more to catch a train to work than to drive, which is stupid!

Live in Hull, however, and you'll find that public transport is hopeless. There are only buses and on some routes there weren't buses before 9am for Christ's sake! What good is that in alleviating congestion? So naturally, everybody drives!

	09-06-2005 21:24									#6
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lib dems anyone?

	09-06-2005 21:28									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Yeah Mike, I could just about avoid driving altogether although it costs several times more to catch a train to work than to drive, which is stupid!

It doesn't when you take into account depreciation, insurance, tax etc.

Private car ownership is evil.

	09-06-2005 21:30									#8
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH It doesn't when you take into account depreciation, insurance, tax etc. Private car ownership is evil.

And there is the issue of shopping and lugging larger amounts of things around, and as some of my business is not necessarily within Greater London is does start to get more difficult to access.

And then there is getting to Hull...one return journey alone can nearly cover a year's car tax!

	09-06-2005 21:35									#9
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Suffer evil motorist!!!

	09-06-2005 21:35									#10
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Oh another one of the non-car owning nuts. It's just envy, that's all

	09-06-2005 21:37									#11
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I do not envy car owners. I prefer not to have a car, though I will likely be forced to get one.

	09-06-2005 21:38									#12
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quote: Originally posted by reds4ever Suffer evil motorist!!!

Yeah it is a smart move to hunt down polluters

	09-06-2005 21:38									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Oh another one of the non-car owning nuts. It's just envy, that's all

The way I look at is that theis counrty needs 'x' amount a year to run, the more they can get off motorists towards that x, the less 'y' is going to be (y is my taxes)

	09-06-2005 21:47									#14
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Variable per mile taxes help control both fuel use and congestion, so are a MUCH better idea than gas taxes. (Though UK should drop the gas tax by about half to offset the per mile tax.)

And props to "Red Ken" for his London congestion tax.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...5060401388.html

We have the beginnings of some of these two taxes in the US, but need a lot more.

	09-06-2005 21:53									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon lib dems anyone?

It's Britain. People are dumb. Many vote for New Labour because they think it's still left wing and they want to rebel against the 'stuffy' Tories and show they are different from their parents.

As the UK election thread showed, sadly people believe tactical voting is the only way to go. Apparently there are only 2 parties in the UK, voting in accordance with your beliefs is 'stupid'.

Still, I'm just smug because I disagreed with New Labour from the very beginning.

	09-06-2005 21:59									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Verres It's Britain. People are dumb. Many vote for New Labour because they think it's still left wing and they want to rebel against the 'stuffy' Tories and show they are different from their parents.

Or some people cam remember interest rates at 15%, unemployment at 5 million and the Tory government not giving a sh!t

	09-06-2005 22:14									#17
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True. No way would I encourage anyone to vote Tory.

But I would like it if most people (note *most*, not people on 'poly) actually bothered to find out what the governments stood for and planned to do/had done rather than voting according to a v misguided perception based on.....god knows what.

	09-06-2005 23:05									#18
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I don't see a problem with the fundamental idea behind the scheme - that is it is effectively make all roads tolls. My libertarian side coming through I guess.( )

The cost issue doesn't bother me personally, or as a whole. I presume the overall cost to drivers is not supposed to increase. Of course any change in method of revenue collection will always be more than willing to bring in a little slack growth in costs, but it won't be excessive.

What I would question is the functionality of the system. i.e. will it work, what are the loopholes, and are the consequences considered. These are practical issues that if dealt with properly can be resolved very well, unfortunately it will be organised by the government.

	10-06-2005 01:04									#19
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i am very unhappy with the thought of the government knowing where my car is 24 hours a day, which is essentially what this scheme requires

	10-06-2005 01:11									#20
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You do realise that this system with sat-nav black boxes will take up to 20 years to implement?

	10-06-2005 01:13									#21
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i'm still pretty young, ta

but yeah 20 years and cost a fortune, sounds about right :/

	10-06-2005 01:15									#22
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It's ample time to vote in a new government. Who will, of course, choose not to drop it.

	10-06-2005 01:16									#23
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This sucks arse.

Wouldn't mind it if a total public transport solution would exist.

	10-06-2005 02:10									#24
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quote: Originally posted by C0ckney i am very unhappy with the thought of the government knowing where my car is 24 hours a day, which is essentially what this scheme requires

Do you have a mobile phone? If you do then you can have your whereabouts traced just as easily as the proposed car scheme.

Incidently, many (and increasingly more) police cars are equipped with cameras to scan every licence plate they see and compare them to a DVLA database, in order to determine if they are 'wanted'.

	10-06-2005 03:06									#25
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This is ging to replace road tax isn't it? Will be good for people that do not drive that much.

	10-06-2005 03:11									#26
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Maybe Blair is angry with his party over future plans to replace him, so he is coming up with unpopular initiatives like that will hurt his party?

	10-06-2005 03:36									#27
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Germany already has the system in use, but only for trucks.

	10-06-2005 04:49									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Dauphin Do you have a mobile phone? If you do then you can have your whereabouts traced just as easily as the proposed car scheme.

Only if it's on

	10-06-2005 05:05									#29
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quote: Originally posted by reds4ever Or some people cam remember interest rates at 15%, unemployment at 5 million and the Tory government not giving a sh!t

Err, unemployment has never been 5m in the UK - in fact it's never gone above the 3.4m it reached in 1984 (it's currently 1.4m)

I have no problem, economically, with road-pricing - as long as it is 'revenue neutral' (i.e. any money raised from it is used to cut fuel duties and car tax).
I do have worries on privacy grounds.

	11-06-2005 02:33									#30
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I also think that this undermines any attempt to make fuelguzzling cars more expensive...there needs to be a strong disincentive to driving overly consuming vehicles...