13-06-2005 18:45									#1
	G8 - Debt forgiveness for poorest nations Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I dont find a thread on this. Surprising.


Following the lead of Tony Blair, with the strong support of World Bank president Paul Wolfowitz, the G8 nations have agreed to a plan for the forgiveness of money owed to international lending agencies (World Bank, IMF, African Development Bank, etc) on the part of 18 of the worlds poorest countries. About $40 billion will be involved. To qualify nations must be both poor and must meet certain standards on economic and political reforms. Some other countries that are currently disqualified cause of lack of reforms, may become qualified. Meanwhile the 18 countries, 14 in Africa and 4 in Latin America, will no longer have to pay debt service on these loans, and will have more money for education, health care, etc.

This change
Tony Blair
Global poverty and hunger

	13-06-2005 18:58									#2
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i don't know what's so amazing about it. It's not like the bozo tony will see any of the money. When you give to the most poor (a loan) in this world, you will never see that money again. So, that should be kept in mind when giving loans. Not saying loans shouldn't be given and forgiven, just saying you won't see the money returning.

	13-06-2005 19:00									#3
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka i don't know what's so amazing about it. It's not like the bozo tony will see any of the money. When you give to the most poor (a loan) in this world, you will never see that money again. So, that should be kept in mind when giving loans. Not saying loans shouldn't be given and forgiven, just saying you won't see the money returning.

I think theres a growing consensus that help to the poorest countries should be in the form of aid, not loans. But that was not the case a couple of decades ago - when it was assumed that growth in the poorest countries would be faster.

	13-06-2005 19:03									#4
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This is good. Poorer countries should have to pay back loans unless they either have control of their economies or their economies grow enough to pay back the loans without cuts to important things.

	13-06-2005 19:07									#5
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You can get more money in loans than you can get in aid. The problem was that the money spent did not result in economic gains in the target country. It was thought that economic reforms and such that were linked to the loans along with the development projects funded by the loans would change their economies for the better. It now appears that projects and economic reforms cannot improve a country's economy, but instead institutional reforms do.

	13-06-2005 19:07									#6
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*feels pride at being a member of the Labour party*

	13-06-2005 19:12									#7
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I could say a lot of things, but I won't. Just one. It's about time.

	13-06-2005 19:12									#8
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Sounds good
But long long long overdue, some countries have been spending more on debt repayment than on education and health...

	13-06-2005 19:53									#9
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and in the other news, how's wolfie doing at the head of the IMF ?

	13-06-2005 19:58									#10
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Just curious, is Wolfy supportive of Bush or Blair's policy (Bush wants a debt amnesty, while Blair wants the rich countries to take over third world debt, so that these states can still take out loans)?

And props to Blair's Africa aid campaign (and I ask again why oh why can't we have him instead...).

	13-06-2005 20:02									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo And props to Blair's Africa aid campaign (and I ask again why oh why can't we have him instead...).

The teeth. Bush owns Blair in the dental department.

	13-06-2005 20:09									#12
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Can't disagree with that.

	13-06-2005 20:11									#13
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Though in the mental department...

	13-06-2005 20:15									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka i don't know what's so amazing about it. It's not like the bozo tony will see any of the money. When you give to the most poor (a loan) in this world, you will never see that money again. So, that should be kept in mind when giving loans. Not saying loans shouldn't be given and forgiven, just saying you won't see the money returning.

yes, we need to declare it all bad debt, forgive it, and not issue any more.

	13-06-2005 20:44									#15
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it's a great idea, lets just hope the money goes to people who actually need it.

	13-06-2005 20:46									#16
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quote: Originally posted by dannubis and in the other news, how's wolfie doing at the head of the IMF ?

about as well as could be expected, considering he is head of the world bank, NOT the IMF, and that i mentioned his title in the OP

	13-06-2005 20:50									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Just curious, is Wolfy supportive of Bush or Blair's policy (Bush wants a debt amnesty, while Blair wants the rich countries to take over third world debt, so that these states can still take out loans)? And props to Blair's Africa aid campaign (and I ask again why oh why can't we have him instead...).

IIUC the debt relief is being provided BY the lending agencies, with the rich countries then making good the losses at the lending agencies, so the agencies can still make loans. Im not entirely sure how this maps to the distinction you mention, or what side Wolfie took.

I DO think Wolfie is supportive of the further Blair initiative to increase development aid, but I dont have cite to that effect.

I also note that in addition to the 18 countries getting immediate relief, a further 9 are eligible if they complete certain reforms, and are at various stages of completion. a further 15 billions would be required to provide debt relief for them.

	13-06-2005 20:51									#18
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark I think theres a growing consensus that help to the poorest countries should be in the form of aid, not loans. But that was not the case a couple of decades ago - when it was assumed that growth in the poorest countries would be faster.

Also, the 1970's was the era of the Club of Rome, which led a lot of people to believe that countries like Tanzania and Brazil would become wealthy just because of the fact that they were sitting on commodities like oil, copper, etc. The continually rising prices of these commodities would easily support debt servicing, which made it easier for the World Bank etc to make loans that were considered excessive even at the time.

And let's not forget that Robert MacNamara, America's most successful failure, was in charge of the WB at the time.

	13-06-2005 20:54									#19
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Hmmm, we'll forgive your debt if you open your legs to international capital's phalus.

	13-06-2005 21:02									#20
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quote: IIUC the debt relief is being provided BY the lending agencies, with the rich countries then making good the losses at the lending agencies, so the agencies can still make loans. Im not entirely sure how this maps to the distinction you mention, or what side Wolfie took.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/10/politics/10debt.html

quote: The debt relief negotiations had been bogged down for months over which of two possible methods should be used to eliminate the debt. One approach, favored by Britain, was for the rich nations to take over responsibility for repaying the debts. The second method, favored by the United States, was for the loans to be written off entirely by the lenders.

The article notes that apparantly Blair agreed to a compromise where the lenders get some of the money back.

	13-06-2005 21:03									#21
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that forgiving the debts is like the killer saying he wont kill you very much.
they still have to abaide by the mosntrous world bank economic programs that are designed to suck them dry.

the killer cant be a philantropist

	13-06-2005 21:03									#22
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark about as well as could be expected, considering he is head of the world bank, NOT the IMF, and that i mentioned his title in the OP

sorry mr perfect, i mistyped.
and now, any word on what this guy is up to ?

	13-06-2005 21:05									#23
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and how fitting that blair leader of the country of the most barbaric colonialism leads the effort. that's insult to injury!


meanwhile exploitation of the 3rd world by the "west" has incerased 5 fold the last decade.

	13-06-2005 21:14									#24
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quote: Originally posted by dannubis sorry mr perfect, i mistyped. and now, any word on what this guy is up to ?

hes visiting Africa, this week.

IMF for World Bank - thats some typo? Do you have "mavis beacon teaches typing CD's over there?

	13-06-2005 21:15									#25
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It's certainly a good step.

	13-06-2005 21:34									#26
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 and how fitting that blair leader of the country of the most barbaric colonialism leads the effort. that's insult to injury! meanwhile exploitation of the 3rd world by the "west" has incerased 5 fold the last decade.

2/10

	13-06-2005 21:47									#27
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take out the dionysian aspect and it's pretty apollonian

	14-06-2005 21:00									#28
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1) there already are debt forgivness programs at the world bank
2) if debt forgiveness worked, you wouldnt see countries got back into massive debt. the last round of debt forgivness saw $30 bn in forgivness (this was in the 70s or 80s) to a set of countries, who then turned around and got themselves back into debt to the tune of $40 bn.

	14-06-2005 21:32									#29
	Re: G8 - Debt forgiveness for poorest nations Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark To qualify nations must be both poor and must meet certain standards on economic and political reforms. Some other countries that are currently disqualified cause of lack of reforms, may become qualified.

In other words United States will not want the G8 nations to forgive debts of socialist countries or any other country that has a liberal government, right?

	14-06-2005 21:45									#30
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heres the problem - forgiving debt doesnt change a country's incentive to a) go back into debt and b) not pay it off.

so the same thing happens again.