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aneeshm
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Indore , Madhya Pradesh
Jul 2001
time: 11:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
quote:
Come on Aggie , answer me . Have you ever used Google ? |
Sure, I'm not best pleased with them either.
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You claim that MS should not censor stuff in Shina , ecause doing so would give tacit sanction to them . If they are an evil company , then you should not sanction MS , by the same logic . This means , however , that Google is equally evil in you eyes , and that you are sanctioning their behaviour by using Google , which means that you are guilty of the same thing as is MS .
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Agathon
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Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Last Conformist
That's simply not what's happening. A blogging service increases the space for people to express themselves. Thanks to state censorship, the extension isn't as large as one might wish for, but if M$ kept out there'd be no extension at all.
In the Aggiverse, restricted opportunities to express oneself is apparently worse than none. |
Are you on crack?
I mean seriously. I know Asher is completely daft and amoral, but you seriously believe this?
Why don't you read the thread? My point is about whether it's ethical for companies to profit from human rights violations. You say that's fine with you because it might be worse. Try generalizing that to other examples and see what happens.
quote:
You claim that MS should not censor stuff in Shina , ecause doing so would give tacit sanction to them . If they are an evil company , then you should not sanction MS , by the same logic . This means , however , that Google is equally evil in you eyes , and that you are sanctioning their behaviour by using Google , which means that you are guilty of the same thing as is MS . |
This is insane. Who mentioned anything about boycotts? Your idea of what counts as logically consistent behvaiour is worse than Ashers, and his is that of a two-year-old.
You need a bit more argument to get to that.
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lord of the mark
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FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Last Conformist
Aggie:
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Because this isn't about a private company censoring its own private service for it's own reasons, but a private company colluding with a government to enforce a nationwide prohibition on free speech. |
That's simply not what's happening. A blogging service increases the space for people to express themselves. Thanks to state censorship, the extension isn't as large as one might wish for, but if M$ kept out there'd be no extension at all.
In the Aggiverse, restricted opportunities to express oneself is apparently worse than none. |
depends how China responds - if MS says no, do they decide to drop the whole idea, or get another provider.
And if numerous providers say no, do they drop the idea, or reduce the more blatant censorship?
And is limited "free expression" thats limited always better than none? Does it ever make sense to boycott a rigged election? In Iran the govt apparently has relaxed its dress codes and so fourth, in an attempt to defuse demands for political change. As the apartheid govt of South Africa gave up on "petit apartheid" in an attempt to continue to deny the vote to blacks. So if China lets folks blog about their day to day problems, their sex lives, their favorite games, while censoring discussion of politics - is that a good expansion of freedom, or a safety valve designed to keep the system in place?
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Agathon
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Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:37
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quote:
Originally posted by aneeshm
Why don't you actually answer me and the points I made ? |
Because it would be a lot of work, and doesn't really change my point.
I've accepted that both Google and Microsoft are engaging in unethical behaviour, but I don't see what good a boycott would do, and I don't think it is justified in this case (solutions to this sort of problem are political IMHO). But the thread is about whether Microsoft's actions are bad, not what to do about it (that comes next).
I'd like to see the Chinese people better off. IMHO the Chinese government is to be saluted for the progress it has made in this direction in the last 15 years. On the other hand, they aren't perfect, and this Orwellian scheme is pure evil. That being said, we may owe our Chinese friends help to get around it if they ask, but we shouldn't be letting corporations from our part of the world collude in their repression for profit. Think of what we would say if the shoe was on the other foot.
As for boycotts. I don't think they would work, and they would not recognize all the good things these companies do. Shaming them out of it seems a better strategy, but this thread is about whether or not it is a bad thing.
There.. I hope you consider that a reasonable answer.
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17-06-2005 10:02
All I said is that you don't have to do something unethical for money.
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