15-06-2005 09:09									#61
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What kuci just quoted was what i said not ben.

	15-06-2005 09:10									#62
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quote: Originally posted by OzzyKP Who needs a resume?

I did.

	15-06-2005 09:11									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski Im sorry that was mine ben is in sa, and me and the hubby live here I let ben use my laptop pc earlier today and didnt realize the genius didnt sign out my bad

I figured it was something like that, since it looked just like your posting (), but was at a loss as to why you would be posting from his account.

	15-06-2005 09:11									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski What kuci just quoted was what i said not ben.

Oh. But you did get him drinking, yes?

	15-06-2005 09:13									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I did.

You're just lazy then.

All hail Steve Jobs & Bill Gates and all the other incredibly successful pioneers who've pushed the human race forward, not in spite of, but because of getting their asses out of formal eduaction.

	15-06-2005 09:16									#66
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quote: Originally posted by OzzyKP You're just lazy then. All hail Steve Jobs & Bill Gates and all the other incredibly successful pioneers who've pushed the human race forward, not in spite of, but because of getting their asses out of formal eduaction.

Different era. They saw an emerging market and seized it.

Nowadays you can't get in the door of a major company without a degree, and you can't start your own because the Venture Capital people are incredibly picky after the dot-com boom.

If you want to get anywhere in the technology field, you need a degree. Even people with diplomas from a technical school/community college are pretty much doomed to lower levels.

	15-06-2005 09:19									#67
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Oh. But you did get him drinking, yes?

I dont think i did he wasnt drinking last time i saw him. I guess ull have to ask him when he comes back on. Its funny kuci can recgonize my posts

	15-06-2005 09:20									#68
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quote: Originally posted by OzzyKP Who needs a resume? I don't intend on applying anywhere, so what do I need a good resume for? Whatever I do, I am going to make it on my own. Thats what most of the really successful people did, and that's what I am doing. Anyways, even if I did want to get a regular job obeying some mid-level boss in some monolithic corporation I've got a pretty damn good resume without the degree. How many job applicants have built up entire organizations by themselves, gotten significant national media coverage, recruited thousands of members, etc etc. I've gotten more real world experience, more training, more accomplishments under my belt than most people my age whether they've got a degree or not. Plus the added bonus of not having the debt most people my age have so they can pay off the worthless sheet of paper they struggled 4 (or 5 or 6) years to get. All in all, I am pretty damn happy about my situation, and am very glad I dropped out.

I've heard all this before as a teacher. You're delusional.

	15-06-2005 09:22									#69
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Nope, just drinking juice right now. Mrs. Tuberski hogs all the beer.

	15-06-2005 09:24									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Different era. They saw an emerging market and seized it. Nowadays you can't get in the door of a major company without a degree, and you can't start your own because the Venture Capital people are incredibly picky after the dot-com boom. If you want to get anywhere in the technology field, you need a degree. Even people with diplomas from a technical school/community college are pretty much doomed to lower levels.

Then start your own field and begin a new era. There is always something new emerging. Whether you get a cubicle out of the old era or a private jet in the new era is up to you.

Excluding fantasies about being one of the super-rich, even regular folks can make a good living starting up something new instead of following the paths of others. It involves risk and determination, certainly. But I think its more rewarding in the long run.

Do freelance stuff. Start up a small business. There are plenty of opportunities to make it on your own. Honestly, I think that is the way our economy is going. As more things get outsourced overseas, more Americans are going to have to be flexible and make a path on their own.

No degree is going to be able to teach us how to do that.

	15-06-2005 09:26									#71
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quote: Originally posted by OzzyKP Then start your own field and begin a new era.

Oh, if only I had thought of that!

How about children's porn? That's an open market, I'm sure! Porn for children.


Winnie the Poo Goes to Town will be my first book.

	15-06-2005 09:29									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Nope, just drinking juice right now. Mrs. Tuberski hogs all the beer.

Boooo. God gave man beer. It was a far greater gift than the sexes.

	15-06-2005 09:33									#74
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Small thread jack before i get back on topic.. If the dude wanted a beer i told him it was in the fridge. I am a nurse not a maid

	15-06-2005 09:35									#75
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quote: If the dude wanted a beer i told him it was in the fridge. I am a nurse not a maid

I suppose that's why I'm always fetching them.

	15-06-2005 09:36									#76
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The only problem with your theory Ozzy is that, you know what? there might actually be NO new fields coming up that will make that kind of money.

The statistics are simple- people who get degrees in general make more than those that did not. The higher the degree the higher the average earnings.

Outliers like Jobs exist, they always do. The chances you will be one of those outliers thought are not particularly high. So don't kid yourself.

	15-06-2005 09:37									#77
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on topic i get real tired of hearing bout the rich little kids boo hooing bout going to class after the parents pay for the school. and everything else that goes with college. As far as delusional, i belive its most folks that think they can move along with their lives with out any education

	15-06-2005 09:38									#78
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quote: Originally posted by OzzyKP

Clearly I'm better off with my degree, is that what you're saying?

	15-06-2005 10:09									#79
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Pretty tough (If not illegal) to be a doctor, lawyer, professor of whatever, school teacher, dentist, etc etc without a degree or multiple degrees.

But I guess those aren't satisfying careers, personally or financially. :hmm:

What do I know. I wouldn't have my career without my degree.

	15-06-2005 14:51									#80
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quote: Originally posted by OzzyKP Do freelance stuff.

In what? Who's going to give you a contract without seeing something first?

quote: Originally posted by OzzyKP Start up a small business. There are plenty of opportunities to make it on your own.

You can't be a CPA without an accounting degree. You can't be a PE without an engineering degree. Without a license you aren't going anywhere in these fields.

Computer Science is more lenient in that respect, but you probably won't know the maths without going to university. However you still need all kinds of certificates if you want to go anywhere.

quote: Originally posted by OzzyKP No degree is going to be able to teach us how to do that.

Then again, you are worse off without a degree.

Lets suppose you and Asher are both soliciting the same client. If all else are equal, who is he going to go with - the man with a degree or the man without?

	15-06-2005 20:13									#81
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Did anyone actually read the speech?

Jobs was saying that he dropped out formally, and that this enabled him to spend 18 months on campus auditing interesting courses like calligraphy. That sounds like it's useless, but then Jobs creates the first computer where typography is a really big deal (it wasn't on the Lisa).

He's not saying that dropping out of school is always good, but that being freed from restrictions sometimes has unexpected results, as was the case with his calligraphy class.

	15-06-2005 20:15									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Here's the whole speech. Typical stuff, although I thought the final third was very good, and indeed a masterful piece of rhetoric in some places.

Did you jack off while reading it?

	15-06-2005 20:16									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Nope, just drinking juice right now. Mrs. Tuberski hogs all the beer.

Then you must have been eating Che's brownies again.

	15-06-2005 20:18									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Did you jack off while reading it?

My Dad died of pancreatic cancer a couple of years ago. I guess that the last part of the speech was rather close to home for me.

So the answer is no.

	15-06-2005 20:19									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Did you jack off while reading it?

Most people stop doing that so much after they reach full adulthood.

	15-06-2005 20:26									#86
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Way to miss the point.

	15-06-2005 20:31									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Most people stop doing that so much after they reach full adulthood.

Only the old men with diminished sexdrives like yourself...

	15-06-2005 21:27									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Way to miss the point.

The point is that if your father had died from pancreatic cancer, you would have come closer to understanding the last third of Jobs' speech.

In fact, that speech has improved my (somewhat low) opinion of Jobs as a person.

	15-06-2005 21:29									#89
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quote: Then you must have been eating Che's brownies again.

It is what I believe, and what I have said previously. School costs too much time and money at this point for me. When I have more money, I am sure that the opportunity cost will drop, and it will make sense for me to go back.

As for freelancing, you don't need a degree, you need a portfolio, which means doing volunteer work along those lines, or working on your own. Once you have the portfolio, and start freelancing, then you continue to add to your porfolio after each freelance contract.

I have had a freelance contract given to me for data entry, based on my portfolio, which turned out great, and now I have some work experience to show people for the next contract. What I don't have is any formal credentials.

	15-06-2005 22:28									#90
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The opportunity cost never drops. It keeps increasing.