16-06-2005 10:34									#1
	I am shocked. Shocked I tell you. Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

http://news.com.com/PC+makers+snub+...711.html?tag=nl

quote: PC makers snub Windows sans media player Published: June 15, 2005, 8:08 AM PDT By Ingrid Marson Special to CNET News.com TrackBack Print E-mail TalkBack Four major PC makers have no plans to sell the media-player-free version of Windows, which Microsoft was ordered to offer by Europe's competition commissioner. Microsoft will make an updated version of Window XP N available on Wednesday, but none of the computer manufacturers that ZDNet UK spoke to are considering preinstalling it on desktops or laptops. Dell, Hewlett-Packard, Lenovo and Fujitsu Siemens all said they have no firm plans to install Windows XP N, citing a lack of customer demand. A Dell representative added Tuesday that customers expect to have a media player included. Windows N "Dell will continue to offer European customers Microsoft's Windows operating systems including the Windows Media Player utility on Dimension desktops and Inspiron notebooks," the representative said. "Customers purchase computers expecting them to come equipped with the capability of playing back digital media files, and it's our obligation to meet this need. (Windows XP N will) not (be offered) at this time. We'll monitor the market to see if XP N is in high demand." Lenovo, which last month completed its purchase of IBM's PC division, and HP expressed similar sentiments. "At this time, HP has no plans to support Windows XP Professional Edition N on commercial notebooks in 2005," said an HP representative. A Lenovo representative said: "At present we have no plans to preinstall Windows XP N on desktops and laptops. We will continue to monitor customer demand going forward." The only company that conceded it may preinstall Windows XP N was Fujitsu Siemens, which said it would do so on request. "We will not preinstall as standard," said a Fujitsu Siemens representative. "It will only be on special requests, and we have had no such request from any of our customers to date." Acer, another PC manufacturer, has been unable to provide a comment on this issue during the past week. The lack of interest from computer manufacturers for Windows XP N raises questions over the effectiveness of the EU's antitrust ruling, particularly the fact that Microsoft has been allowed to offer Windows XP N for the same price as the standard version of Windows XP. The slow road to Windows XP Google readying Web-only video search High-stakes start-ups Microsoft looks to extinguish LAMP Previous Next A European Commission representative was reluctant to comment on the issue. "Given that Windows XP N has not even been shipped yet, it is too early to start drawing conclusions," he said. Microsoft said it bears no responsibility for making PC manufacturers use Windows XP N. "Microsoft has made these products available through its standard distribution channels," a company representative said. "Whether or not customers or distributors offer this product in Europe is a decision for individual computer manufacturers, enterprise customers and retailers." One of Microsoft's rivals in the media player market, RealNetworks, criticized Microsoft earlier this year for failing to provide a fully functional version of Windows that is unbundled from Windows Media Player. RealNetworks declined to comment on the updated version of Windows XP N.

Apparently PC makers see no incentive to bundle a Windows without WMP on their computers, because...customers want a media player by default?

Jesus christ, who could have had the foresight to see this?

I honestly expected all of the major manufacturers to switch to the crippled version, since it costs the same with less features!

Europe.

	16-06-2005 10:37									#2
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Oh, Asher -- be sure you don't insult anyone in this thread.

	16-06-2005 10:39									#3
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IMO everyone should boycott Europe, because the decision to force MS to release a WMP-less OS is unethical.

Who's with me?!

	16-06-2005 10:40									#4
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Probably the Bush Administration.

	16-06-2005 11:26									#5
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Yeah! Europe should have done much worse things to MS! Those wimps!

	16-06-2005 11:32									#6
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quote: Dell, Hewlett-Packard, Lenovo and Fujitsu Siemens all said they have no firm plans to install Windows XP N, citing a lack of customer demand.

That's mighty interesting, seeing that it hasn't been for sale yet.

	16-06-2005 11:38									#7
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Yes, because companies never do any sort of research before releasing new stuff.

They just throw whatever it is out there and hope that it does well.

	16-06-2005 11:43									#8
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quote: Originally posted by ixnay Yes, because companies never do any sort of research before releasing new stuff. They just throw whatever it is out there and hope that it does well.

Maybe you can cite some researches on this Windows N or whatever its name is.

	16-06-2005 11:50									#9
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Maybe you can tell us how often businesses release its marketing research to the general public

	16-06-2005 12:03									#10
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I would gladly buy a Windows without Media Player. Save me the effort of untangling it from everything.

	16-06-2005 12:05									#11
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it costs $ to have 2 versions of marchines with different pre-installed windows. so they are just giving excuses on not spending those $...

	16-06-2005 14:40									#12
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They should've forced M$ to charge less for the WMP-free version.

	16-06-2005 14:45									#13
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

How do you determine the fair market value of WMP? You can download it for free after all.

	16-06-2005 14:52									#14
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Who said anything about "fair"?

	16-06-2005 15:43									#15
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Asher called Europe 'unethical'. Ban him!

	16-06-2005 20:15									#16
	Increase Your PM Length

Here I'm with Asher . The EU decision was idiotic and unethical , and , in the long run , irrelevant .

This is one of the biggest double standards - Linux can come with five terminals , ten text editors , four media players , and two office suites , all at a total price of zero . Completely predatory pricing . Yet when MS tries the same , they are reviled as "t3h 3vil m0n0p0li5ts !!!!!!11!!!!1!!" .

	16-06-2005 20:59									#17
	Got spare money?

The biggest problem with the EU decision is not the WMP issue, but forcing them to release code for some of the MS Server products. While I dislike the predatory and monopolisitc business practices of MS, forcing them to release code makes me, well, nervous. It flies in the fact of copyright and patent protections. Forcing them to release the appropriate data so that others can write programs that tie into MS prodcuts - fine. Release code? That makes me very uncomfortable.

	16-06-2005 21:06									#18
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

The law doesn't force anyone to buy it, it just compels Microsoft to give customers the choice. So, like most Asher threads, this is much ado about nothing.

	16-06-2005 21:12									#19
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Hey didn't some doofus say that Microsoft has to obey the laws of the countries it operates in, even if they are stupid and evil?

	16-06-2005 21:21									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Hey didn't some doofus say that Microsoft has to obey the laws of the countries it operates in, even if they are stupid and evil?

Yup, which is why MS obviously complied, rather than leaving Europe.

It doesn't change the fact that the decision was remarkably stupid, as the people who will actively choose a WMP-less Windows vs. one with WMP for the same price can be counted on one hand -- internationally.

The EU spent a lot of time bickering about this, and it's all so pointless. No one ever sat to think about how the consumers are affected, it appears.

I guess that's a secondary concern to trying to screw with the big, bad, American corporation.

	16-06-2005 21:22									#21
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Agathon The law doesn't force anyone to buy it, it just compels Microsoft to give customers the choice. So, like most Asher threads, this is much ado about nothing.

And, like I predicted, consumers really aren't getting the choice because it makes no sense for the OEMs to offer the crippled Windows to users.

The product is available, no one is buying it.

There's a solution if I ever saw one.

	16-06-2005 21:51									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Yup, which is why MS obviously complied, rather than leaving Europe. It doesn't change the fact that the decision was remarkably stupid, as the people who will actively choose a WMP-less Windows vs. one with WMP for the same price can be counted on one hand -- internationally. The EU spent a lot of time bickering about this, and it's all so pointless. No one ever sat to think about how the consumers are affected, it appears. I guess that's a secondary concern to trying to screw with the big, bad, American corporation.

They whined and *****ed about this one. One wishes that they had shown similar spine when dealing with the Chinese.

	16-06-2005 21:53									#23
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Asher And, like I predicted, consumers really aren't getting the choice because it makes no sense for the OEMs to offer the crippled Windows to users. The product is available, no one is buying it. There's a solution if I ever saw one.

It is. That is as much as the court can do. They can't ban Microsoft from selling it, but the alternative is there now, and no-one can complain about Microsoft media player violating anti-trust legislation, because it is no longer compulsory.

I find it funny that you have wasted a thread about this. The court got exactly what it wanted, so you're accusations fall flat.

	16-06-2005 22:03									#24
	Tired of ads?

I would buy Windows without a media player. I always have to try to untangle it from everything.

	16-06-2005 22:14									#25
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Agathon It is. That is as much as the court can do. They can't ban Microsoft from selling it, but the alternative is there now, and no-one can complain about Microsoft media player violating anti-trust legislation, because it is no longer compulsory. I find it funny that you have wasted a thread about this. The court got exactly what it wanted, so you're accusations fall flat.

The court wanted to provide an equal footing for MS' competitors like Real.

If they didn't care if anyone bought it, why did the Court make a huge deal out of it when it was called "Windows XP Reduced Media Edition"?

The ruling changes absolutely nothing, because its -- surprise surprise -- impractical.

That one word, impractical, is such a foreign concept of governments and academics...

	16-06-2005 22:32									#26
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quote: The court wanted to provide an equal footing for MS' competitors like Real.

It has on the only conception of "equal" that they could enforce. Stopping MS from selling it would be illegal.

quote: If they didn't care if anyone bought it, why did the Court make a huge deal out of it when it was called "Windows XP Reduced Media Edition"?

Because they wanted to make people aware that it was now possible to buy it?

quote: The ruling changes absolutely nothing, because its -- surprise surprise -- impractical.

Yes it does. People now have an opportunity that they didn't have before. That's changed something - i.e. what the law was designed to change. That's the point. The law did its job.

quote: That one word, impractical, is such a foreign concept of governments and academics...

You're on a roll today. Two threads in which you've demonstrated your complete misunderstanding of a topic.

	16-06-2005 22:37									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon It has on the only conception of "equal" that they could enforce. Stopping MS from selling it would be illegal.

That's pretty odd. They can force MS to modify and remove and cripple their software, but can't force them to modify pricing or whether it's sold? All of the above should be illegal.

quote: Because they wanted to make people aware that it was now possible to buy it?

What the hell does that have to do with the name choice?

My point was MS originally named it "Windows XP Reduced Media Edition". The Court told them they couldn't name it that, it would deter potential buyers...so it became "Windows XP N".

quote: Yes it does. People now have an opportunity that they didn't have before. That's changed something - i.e. what the law was designed to change. That's the point. The law did its job.

Where do they have that opportunity? The whole point is no one is offering the product for sale, ie...they don't have the opportunity.

quote: You're on a roll today. Two threads in which you've demonstrated your complete misunderstanding of a topic.

Which is more of a statement about you than anything else, as I chose the topic as this is my thread.

	16-06-2005 22:42									#28
	Got spare money?

quote: Where do they have that opportunity? The whole point is no one is offering the product for sale, ie...they don't have the opportunity.

But they can offer it if they want to - that's the point. Stop trying to change the subject because you have posted (another) silly thread.

	16-06-2005 22:43									#29
	Put an end to popups!

The fact that the court could prohibit them from naming the software what they wanted is outrageous. It's not as if they named it "The Turderific Version the Dumbass EU Wants Us to Release." If the whole point was to appease those folks who want Windows but don't want Media Player, wouldn't "Reduced Media" make them more inclined to buy it?

	16-06-2005 22:46									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov The fact that the court could prohibit them from naming the software what they wanted is outrageous. It's not as if they named it "The Turderific Version the Dumbass EU Wants Us to Release." If the whole point was to appease those folks who want Windows but don't want Media Player, wouldn't "Reduced Media" make them more inclined to buy it?

A terrible outrage. The court didn't fall for MS crap.