16-06-2005 22:10									#31
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by General Ludd High standards of living?

beat me to it

	16-06-2005 23:11									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I have no medical insurance and I'm doing fine.

though it helps I never get sick. not that I would ever go to the doctor anyways.

though I did go to a clinic last fall for a rash. They gave me a presription for some creme that didn't work.

doctors are all quacks.

	16-06-2005 23:58									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

US company after US company is going bankrupt due to medical costs. GM says that medical costs add an estimated $1500 to the price of every single car they make and if you look at every large American company they are all in the same boat.

If we had universal insurence then risks would be spread out over a much larger pool thus making per unit costs much lower. We're talking economies of scale here. Currently private insurence can cherry pick the best then drop the seriously sick people on to medicaid thus leaving the government with none of the healthy people but most of the long termsick people. It would be much efficent & lower cost just to get a universal health insurance system in place.

	17-06-2005 00:39									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I dont know bout other states but in texas we have community hopspitals where the indigant go or shipped to. For the most part those that seek care there dont end up paying for the service. They are billed and if they dont pay these folks arent sued their credit rating gets messed up. The quality of care isnt as hi as for those in private hospitals because most of the drs seeing patients are residents being supervised by licenensed physicians. And for the record this doesnt really matter, but we do have some type of free insurance unfortunatly to get it you have to be poor and pegnant or mainly a child, its called medicaid

	17-06-2005 03:02									#35
	Tired of ads?

http://www.justhealthcare.org/

How American can afford full heath care for all.

	17-06-2005 03:49									#36
	Inflate your Upload Space

That's a nice idea but without some profit we will see underinvestment in the health sector. A better way would be to have a national insurance plan which all hospitals would be required to accept. Like any other plan agents would decide how much the insurance company would pay for any procedure and that is how much the health care provider would get. The more efficient the health care provider the larger their profits while inefficient providers would lose money and go out of business. Elective procedures could be covered by private insurance just like most European and several Asian countries do while the national insurance would cover all basic medical care.

This would reduce costs since insurance is essentially a statistical game which becomes more precise the larger the number of people involved. We could effectively spread costs around among 300 million people and that kind of bargaining power & economies of scale could wring out all sorts of cost savings from drug companies, health care providers, and medical equipment manufacturers.

	17-06-2005 03:57									#37
	Support Apolyton

This i find very entertaining Franky prolly gona choke after he reads it . My 14 yo old just had to have his appendix out last month. I just got a break down from insurance co. on the cost of the whole deal er charges ex rays and 3 day stay in hospital or 2 .5 day stay and surgery cost totaled 67,000 dollars. my part is 3500.00 dollars

	17-06-2005 04:33									#38
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara We don't have it because Southern politicians were worried it would lead to segregated hospitals. Later, Nixon, who was also a proponent of it, was crippled by Watergate. After that, the GOP was taken over by conservatives.

Yep. One thing that people don't know about is that Nixon was about to propose a national health care system similar to the one Canada has now until the Watergate scandal hit.

quote: I'm still trying to think of a reason why this would be a bad thing. Anybody got an answer to this?

Che covered it. If a doctor messes up and you can never walk again, is $250,000 fair?! Why protect negligent doctors?

And the states that have put malpractice caps have similar, if not greater, rise in insurance premiums. If you want to find an answer, look at the insurance companies.

A national health care plan would fix a lot of problems.

	17-06-2005 07:10									#39
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Why should the government set a limit on punitive damages if the doctor cuts the wrong leg off? You still need to have the other leg removed, so now you're limited to a quarter million dollars for your loss and you can never walk again. Is that anything close to a fair trade? The problem isn't malpractice awards, it's unrestricted raising of premiums. Caps have not produced savings anywhere they've been tried . . except for the profits of the insurance companies.

Ok, there you go. A reason why malpractice caps might be bad ( however I still think there is room to argue here, but I'm just not going to).

The scary thing is that we appearently agree about "Evil Impersonal Insurance Companies".

	17-06-2005 07:12									#40
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

malpractice caps are a good thing. I can't believe you people support people getting millions of dollars.

What you guys fail to realize is these caps only limit pain and suffering. Which is all bullshit anyways. They will still pay for all medical costs for the rest of their life, and for lost time at work for the rest of their life.

	17-06-2005 07:16									#41
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: What you guys fail to realize is these caps only limit pain and suffering. Which is all bullshit anyways.

So losing the wrong leg and thus not being to walk again is something which deserves bubkas? You don't have medical costs for that, really, after they are cut off.

Malpractice caps are a bad thing. They prevent people from getting the money they should when companies and doctors are a bunch of negligent *******s.

When are the doctors going to take personal responsibilty for their actions.

	17-06-2005 07:18									#42
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: What you guys fail to realize is these caps only limit pain and suffering. Which is all bullshit anyways. So losing the wrong leg and thus not being to walk again is something which deserves bubkas? You don't have medical costs for that, really, after they are cut off. Malpractice caps are a bad thing. They prevent people from getting the money they should when companies and doctors are a bunch of negligent *******s. When are the doctors going to take personal responsibilty for their actions.

you think being a doctor is easy? The doctors don't do this on purpose. Accidents happen. We don't sue drivers that get in an accident with you and cause you to lose a leg.

	17-06-2005 07:21									#43
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Dissident you think being a doctor is easy? The doctors don't do this on purpose. Accidents happen. We don't sue drivers that get in an accident with you and cause you to lose a leg.

Yeah, and when you have an accident that causes someone pain or harm, you have to pay. That's called a tort. OF COURSE we get to sue drivers that drive negligently and cause you to lose a leg in an accident... which country do you live in? It happens all the time!

	17-06-2005 07:23									#44
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

a woman just killed 3 teenagers at a bus stop. She's not being sued. Unless you are drunk (or on drugs), you can't be sued or arrested. They are called accidents. Perhaps my state laws are different.

	17-06-2005 07:25									#45
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Dissident a woman just killed 3 teenagers at a bus stop. She's not being sued. Unless you are drunk, you can't be sued or arrested.

It's called negligence. I suggest you look it up. If the woman was driving negligently, the parents of the kids would be fully justified in filing for wrongful death actions.

Just because they haven't yet, btw, doesn't mean they won't.

People are sued all the time for driving recklessly and causing injury as a result.

	17-06-2005 07:27									#46
	Remove this text

this woman in question was actually on drugs. But they were prescribed drugs she was authorized to take. She didn't even get a ticket for killing 3 teenagers.

And she's not being sued. And she probably fell asleep at the wheel. Though that's not something anyone can prove.

	17-06-2005 07:31									#47
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Dissident this woman in question was actually on drugs. But they were prescribed drugs she was authorized to take. She didn't even get a ticket for killing 3 teenagers. And she's not being sued.

Did she take too many? Was she not supposed to drive when on the drugs. Or was it an unintended side effect of the drug?

Because the parents don't want to sue her (or her doctor for not telling her to stop driving while on the drug) doesn't mean she can't be.

Like I said, people are sued all the time for driving negligently and causing injury. I suggest you trust the guy who just graduated from law school on this one, Diss. One person not being sued doesn't lead to a general rule. Tort liability extends to reckless driving and always has.

	17-06-2005 07:31									#48
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Jesus H. Christ, Dissident, sometimes I can't tell if you're doing this intentially or you really are this ****ing stupid.

	17-06-2005 07:32									#49
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Jesus H. Christ, Dissident, sometimes I can't tell if you're doing this intentially or you really are this ****ing stupid.

doing what?

you think I'm ****ing lying. I don't like being called stupid.

she's not being sued. What more can I say. She may be sued in the future, but so far she's not. The family probably has no case because she wasn't even cited for a traffic violation. Just be glad you don't live in a ****ed up city like mine. We have the most unsafe streets in the nation (in my opinion at least)

	17-06-2005 07:34									#50
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: you think I'm ****ing lying. I don't like being called stupid.

He's referring to:

quote: Diss wrote this We don't sue drivers that get in an accident with you and cause you to lose a leg.

	17-06-2005 07:36									#51
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Dissident doing what? you think I'm ****ing lying. I don't like being called stupid. she's not being sued. What more can I say. She may be sued in the future, but so far she's not. The family probably has no case because she wasn't even cited for a traffic violation. Just be glad you don't live in a ****ed up city like mine. We have the most unsafe streets in the nation (in my opinion at least)

First, provide a link to the story so we can get the real details. I'm not saying you're lying, just that you might not know what you're talking about (a strong possibility, given your track record).

Second, you're always making these specious extrapolations. You find one example and say it's proof something is always the same way. Every hear of an invalid extrapolation?

But what I really couldn't believe is you'd say something as stupid as "We don't sue drivers that get in an accident with you and cause you to lose a leg." This has to be one of the most absurd things I've ever seen you claim. Lawsuits over car accidents happen ALL THE DAMN TIME. Courts are replete with them.

	17-06-2005 07:39									#52
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov First, provide a link to the story so we can get the real details. I'm not saying you're lying, just that you might not know what you're talking about (a strong possibility, given your track record). Second, you're always making these specious extrapolations. You find one example and say it's proof something is always the same way. Every hear of an invalid extrapolation? But what I really couldn't believe is you'd say something as stupid as "We don't sue drivers that get in an accident with you and cause you to lose a leg." This has to be one of the most absurd things I've ever seen you claim. Lawsuits over car accidents happen ALL THE DAMN TIME. Courts are replete with them.

how can they sue someone if they did nothing wrong? The woman did not break any traffic rules. I'm sure lawsuits happen. But I doubt they go anywhere if they can't prove you were speeding or driving recklessly.

It's you guys who don't know the definition of an accident.

	17-06-2005 07:43									#53
	Get a bigger avatar today!

okay, I looked it up. It appears the family is filing a lawsuit. But I seriously doubt they will win. It was an accident after all. The family is also suing the bus company. I guess the bus company should make bus stops out of solid steel so people aren't killed in them. The family is also suing our entire county (we dont' really live in a city, but unincorporated town)

The family is also suing the doctor who prescribed the xanax.

and it appears I was wrong, becuase the police are recommending she be charged with speeding and failure to maintain a travel laine. Though she still hasn't be ticketed.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_h...s/26189453.html

Last edited by Dis on 17-06-2005 at 07:48

	17-06-2005 07:56									#54
	Put an end to popups!

quote: okay, I looked it up. It appears the family is filing a lawsuit.

quote: and it appears I was wrong, becuase the police are recommending she be charged with speeding and failure to maintain a travel laine. Though she still hasn't be ticketed.

quote: It's you guys who don't know the definition of an accident.

And negligence doesn't lead to accidents? People sue over car accidents all the time. A lot of accidents are because of negligence. Because someone wasn't paying attention or something.

	17-06-2005 07:57									#55
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Dissident how can they sue someone if they did nothing wrong?

You can sue someone for ANYTHING. I could march into court right now and file a lawsuit against you, claiming your posts give me migraines and stop me from sleeping. That doesn't mean it has merit, but it's still something I can do.

quote: The woman did not break any traffic rules. I'm sure lawsuits happen. But I doubt they go anywhere if they can't prove you were speeding or driving recklessly.

Doesn't matter. My brother was involved in a bad car accident 2 years ago. An 18-year-old rear-ended him going 45 mph while he was stopped in traffic. The impact pushed my brother over the median, where he was hit by an oncoming car from the other direction.

Now, how does my brother (thankfully only minorly injured) recoup his losses? He sues the kid. But guess what the driver from the other lane does? He sues my brother. Wasn't my brother's fault at all, mind you.

quote: It's you guys who don't know the definition of an accident.

No, we do. It's you who doesn't know the definition of "lawsuit."

	17-06-2005 07:59									#56
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Dissident okay, I looked it up. It appears the family is filing a lawsuit. But I seriously doubt they will win. It was an accident after all. The family is also suing the bus company. I guess the bus company should make bus stops out of solid steel so people aren't killed in them. The family is also suing our entire county (we dont' really live in a city, but unincorporated town) The family is also suing the doctor who prescribed the xanax. and it appears I was wrong, becuase the police are recommending she be charged with speeding and failure to maintain a travel laine. Though she still hasn't be ticketed. http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_h...s/26189453.html

Can you possibly see now why your assertions sans evidence are very problematic in arguments?

	17-06-2005 08:00									#57
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Now, how does my brother (thankfully only minorly injured) recoup his losses? He sues the kid. But guess what the driver from the other lane does? He sues my brother. Wasn't my brother's fault at all, mind you.

Yep... then your brother has to bring the 18 year old into the suit cause the teenager was the idiot driving negligently. The 18 year old SHOULD be sued in such a case. What, the guy just says, whatever, I'll pay for my own damages and forget about it? Don't think so.

Though I bet he brought your brother in just in case the lawyer for the 18 year old tries to pin it on your brother. If they sue your brother, they know that he'll bring in the 18 year old. If the guy didn't sue both your brother and the 18 year old in the original complaint.

	17-06-2005 08:02									#58
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Now, how does my brother (thankfully only minorly injured) recoup his losses? He sues the kid. But guess what the driver from the other lane does? He sues my brother. Wasn't my brother's fault at all, mind you. Yep... then your brother has to bring the 18 year old into the suit cause the teenager was the idiot driving negligently. The 18 year old SHOULD be sued in such a case. What, the guy just says, whatever, I'll pay for my own damages and forget about it? Don't think so.

That's what I was saying when I said "kid"--my brother sued the 18-year-old who rear-ended him (who, as it turns out, has no insurance, surprise surprise!). But the third person involved sued my brother (also because the kid had no insurance).

	17-06-2005 09:52									#59
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara The problem isn't malpractice awards, it's unrestricted raising of premiums. Caps have not produced savings anywhere they've been tried . . except for the profits of the insurance companies.

I forgot who, but some Polytubbie posted in a different thread that the insurance companies have gone mad with premium increases is because they lost huge amounts of $$$ during the dot-com bubble. Something like that.

	17-06-2005 11:45									#60
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Dumping SS in favor of a nationalized health care system would be a better idea, but I don't see than being possible politically.

Agreed, against my better judgement. I don't like the idea of government funded health care, but our current system of (some) employer funded healthcare is puting us at a significant competitive disadvantage. Best of all would be people paying for their own insurance as offered by "insurance unions" structured similarly to credit unions. Customer owned non-profits.