27-06-2005 19:32									#61
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I guess the big question is: do we try to mind control Planning Authority, or bomb it into emptyness then invade and capture it?

The simulator is a bit misleading as we don't really know where those wandering PK units are (and I just used Maniac's placement of a handful north of HQ - that effectively prevents us capturing the HQ base in the same turn - but there might not actually be units there blocking the road.)

I guess when we first open the turn some serious reconnaissance is needed first.

	27-06-2005 20:36									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie I guess the big question is: do we try to mind control Planning Authority, or bomb it into emptyness then invade and capture it?

Are you sure we can afford it? Are you sure we would get that kind of cash when taking over the base? If both answers are "yes", I think we can do it.

Maniac, it is time to get some defenders anyway.

quote: Originally posted by Googlie I guess when we first open the turn some serious reconnaissance is needed first.

Ditto.

	27-06-2005 21:05									#63
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Personally I consider it kind of exploiting of an obvious bug.
According to the rules:
"It is not allowed to trade technology to AIs in exchange for credits if as a result the AI's energy reserves would go into the negative."

This here is a bit similar IMO. We get credits out of thin air that Lal doesn't even have.

Also don't be mistaken by the apparent high number of 1500c (which of course has not been confirmed that we'd get it in the real game). You have to deduct the mind control cost of if I understand 6-700 credits from that, and Googlie said that Lal's cash reserves will drop to zero because of this mind control. Meaning that's 6-700 credits we can't get anymore from capturing other bases. So as far as I can tell, there's not that much monetary profit left after all. And of course, the loss of crawler-hurrying.

	27-06-2005 22:42									#64
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I would also not be in favour of using this exploit, and I suggest we summon the attention of a mod to officially outlaw this behaviour. Not until we have succeeded with the proper invasion of course, we don't want to give away our plans

	27-06-2005 23:05									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Personally I consider it kind of exploiting of an obvious bug. According to the rules: "It is not allowed to trade technology to AIs in exchange for credits if as a result the AI's energy reserves would go into the negative." This here is a bit similar IMO. We get credits out of thin air that Lal doesn't even have.

I don't have any definitive opinion on the subject yet.

But...what do you mean?
Lal's pockets are full with about 600 credits.
Selling him some techs prior to attack won't bring him into the negative. And, if probe attacks channel his remaining funds to us, where is the bug or the exploit? Is it not perfectly in-game mechanism?

	28-06-2005 04:56									#66
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The bug is that we get more credits than Lal actually has.

It's analagous to selling the stupid AI tech after tech after tech, and while it may have only 100 credits it gleefully gives you 300 for a half dozen techs and runs a -200 reserve for the next few turns. That's disallowed per the rules. (Although in the simulation, Lal doesn't run a deficit, he just reverts to zero - the excess is conjured out of thin air)

But I don't see where getting excess credits as a result of mind-controlling a base is disallowed. Heck, we don't even know if its just a simulation bug, or if it would really occur within the game itself. If it's disallowed, then mind controlling any base should be disallowed, as we're forbidden to play ahead to see what the result might be (alternatively, if it is to be disallowed, then the Mods shoudld stipulate that if any excess credits are generated, then the excess should be put to overrush the next facility somewhere, as a penalty)

But I sense that the concensus is for a conventional attack. So be it

	07-07-2005 23:20									#67
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Operation PW is now complete. We have captured 6 bases:

• UN Headquarters (5 population)
  
• UN High Commission (2)
  
• UN Commerce Committee (1)
  
• UN Aid Station (2)
  
• UN Planning Authority (3)
  
• UN Great Refuge (2)

	11-08-2005 07:23									#68
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Here's a thought:

When we take that last PK base we'll get ~ 200 credits from Lal (assuming the Angels haven't borrowed from him again!!)

How about repaying our loan to Zak (124 credits) then extorting some credits from him (he'll gift us 325). That way we'll help our cash flow (slightly) by turning the debt into an asset

Or do we want to see Zak with some cash in reserves?

	11-08-2005 18:16									#69
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No, those reserves would be much more useful in our hands. Good idea. Let's do that.