17-06-2005 19:20									#1
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Some early thoughts:

Objective:

• a 1-turn conquest of 4 PK bases in the Central Arcadian neck, followed by a swift acceptance of Lal's submissiion
  
• capture of the Alien Artifacts at UN Planning Authority and UN Commerce Committee

Last edited by Googlie on 17-06-2005 at 22:05

	17-06-2005 19:26									#2
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take as much of UNPA out with the airforce...and i think that hardened plasma sentinel at UNHQ also...if we have the range...that is my first thought and action

	17-06-2005 22:11									#3
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Some questions:

• Do we change again to Fundy next year, prior to the invasion?
  
• do we upgrade any units beforehand (eg the unity rover, and impact infantryman, plus the 3 pens all to missile class?)
  
• Do we kick off the invasion with a probesteal of Neural Grafting from UN High Commission
  
• do we use the navy to bombard first, to weaken any defenders (question - does arty bombardment destroy any facilities, the way a bombing run does?)
  
• presumably our tactic is to empty Planning Authority base by air attacks, then enter it with the amphi unit, then dock the transports and fan out from there

	17-06-2005 22:28									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie Some questions:[list][*]Do we change again to Fundy next year, prior to the invasion?

Do we need to? I mean how much would it help execute the invasion?

quote: Originally posted by Googlie [*]do we upgrade any units beforehand (eg the unity rover, and impact infantryman, plus the 3 pens all to missile class?)

I believe we ought to. After all, we are going after Yang next, so might as well get prepared. (And it is better to prevent losses rather than whine after they happen...)

quote: Originally posted by Googlie [*]Do we kick off the invasion with a probesteal of Neural Grafting from UN High Commission

Ahh, here is my answer to the fundy thing. Personally, I do not care. I think we can wait to get it for free anyway.

quote: Originally posted by Googlie [*]do we use the navy to bombard first, to weaken any defenders (question - does arty bombardment destroy any facilities, the way a bombing run does?)

I think we should, especially if we do not upgrade the attackers after all.

	18-06-2005 00:29									#5
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Brief thoughts:

-- Money shouldn't be a problem when thinking about the unit upgrades. According to the different 2175 saves, Brother Lal has more than 460 but less than 616 credits!
"Give us the money, Lebowsky!"
"All your money are belong to us!"
Off course, that money will go right into our bank as soon as Lal surrenders. (better to make him surrender before he spends it rushing some useless unit!). Anyway, just taking 4 bases will give us a good paycheck!

-- Talking about money to spend: UN High Commission is not on the list of targets. I acknowledge our forces do their maximum but...how much would it cost our crypteia on his way around TH to subvert this city? (It would provide us with our first harbour facing the Angels continent)

-- I'm all for a Live Turnchat to follow the Invasion.

-- Now,a question: what if Lal doesn't surrender?
Where do we stop? How long can we focus on Lal while others would be delighted to stab us in the back (others or Yang! ). Can we accept a 'mere' truce leaving Lal with 3 or more bases at our door? (Leaving him to possibly ally with another human player and seek revenge)

	18-06-2005 00:45									#6
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Well, Lal does have a plethora of unity rovers (19, in fact) of which we can account for 4 in or around the 4 target bases, 3 in his other bases, and 1 beside our scout & spore launcher NE of Iaci Base. That leaves 11 on the loose and unaccounted for. Not a bad counter-attacking force.

On the plus side, he only has one Missile penetrator, currenly in the air, so we don't know where it is. hence our F-6 being part of the support forces, to take it out if we locate it.

If he doesn't surrender, I say we pause for breath and then just keep rolling over him

	18-06-2005 00:49									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie If he doesn't surrender, I say we pause for breath and then just keep rolling over him

Nice.

	18-06-2005 03:29									#8
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Don't know if this has been suggested yet, but in any case:

Instead of declaring war directly, ask Lal to withdraw his (unexistent) forces from our territory. If he declares vendetta as a result:

• We will save our reputation.
  
• The alliance with the Angels won't be activated.

	20-06-2005 14:45									#9
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...but if he doesnt then we do need to declare war...

	20-06-2005 19:33									#10
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We could (in order)

• probesteal Neural Grafting (but as we are strong and he is weak he might just "slap wrists")
  
• demand withdrawal (he didn't have forces roaming around last turn and when I just parallel-tested the demand, I got the "You must be aware, my vigilant friend, that I have no forces in your territory" reply)
  
• declare Vendetta

Last edited by Googlie on 20-06-2005 at 19:40

	20-06-2005 19:38									#11
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as long as he doesnt really have any units in our territory it doesnt matter because nothing will be rehomed...

	20-06-2005 19:43									#12
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Ooh - we can mind control that blocking rover with untracreable capture (75% effective" - that doesn't trigger vendetta either!! - so maybe we want the100% odds of revealed mind control - that prolly would trigger vendetta)

(Would get us a cheap veteran upgradeable scout rover able to capture High Commission itself (only has a single scout rover there as a defender)

	20-06-2005 20:01									#13
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i cant remember can a MD unit move in the same turn then?

	20-06-2005 20:10									#14
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Yes - it can (unfortunately it can attack, destroy the defender, but not occupy the base that same turn, as it lacks enough mp's)

Our elite Longstrider could mc the rover, then mc the base itself, as it will have enough mp's. Or as there are other PK troops milling around that area, could try for an untraceable mc of a couple of rovers this next (2176) turn, which will stand us in good stead for the 2177 invasion proper

Note: If we openly mind control, Lal declares vendetta but the Angels don't join in

If we declare vendetta, then the AI triggers the Angels pact with lal and they declare vendetta on us

So for 2176 we migh consider using our elite longstrider to untraceably mind-control 2 PK rovers, then next turn go for another unit, or the base, or Neural grafting and trigger a lal-induced vendetta

or else we just bite the bullet in 2177 and declare ourselves, and give the Angels 1 turn to restore treaty (and if they don't, why then we just build the AV for ourselves under the "all deals are off during vendetta" diplomatic stance

	20-06-2005 20:13									#15
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then i think the untracebles first for a turn is pretty good idea...after that the open MC the same turn a our attack...IF we have the EC...

	20-06-2005 21:36									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie (Would get us a cheap veteran upgradeable scout rover able to capture High Commission itself (only has a single scout rover there as a defender)

OH, yes, YES!!!
Oh, Googlie, please, please, UN High Commission, please!
I need it for Churchillian sea-strategic endeavours...

Another thought: if we probesteal NG to try to get vendetta, why not do it as the "Frame another faction!"?
So, if it succeeds, PK will be at war with, say, Morgan and we are not the only one losing something.
If it fails, then we are in one-in-one vendetta with Lal.

	21-06-2005 06:00									#17
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quote: Originally posted by vishniac Another thought: if we probesteal NG to try to get vendetta, why not do it as the "Frame another faction!"? So, if it succeeds, PK will be at war with, say, Morgan and we are not the only one losing something. If it fails, then we are in one-in-one vendetta with Lal.

This is so sneaky that I like it!! Very Crypteiaic

One point, though .... if we fail, then we'll be obliged under the probe rules to choose the vendetta option with Morgan (the game mistakenly goives the option to the guilty party (us) and not to the in jured party (Morgan) in this instance, and the rules say that we must always choose the vendetta option)

Do we really want to risk that?

	21-06-2005 06:14									#18
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Budget requirements for Operation PW:

Crypteia Division:

• 69 credits to subvert the first PK rover
  
• 72 credits for the second
  
• 100 each to upgrade to Janissary
  
• Total Crypteia: 341 credits

	21-06-2005 06:20									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie One point, though .... if we fail, then we'll be obliged under the probe rules to choose the vendetta option with Morgan (the game mistakenly goives the option to the guilty party (us) and not to the in jured party (Morgan) in this instance, and the rules say that we must always choose the vendetta option)

Ah - we aren't offered a framing option:

	21-06-2005 06:22									#20
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quote: Originally posted by vishniac Another thought: if we probesteal NG to try to get vendetta, why not do it as the "Frame another faction!"?

Oh - ignore the above post. You were referring to framing another faction for probestealing NG, not for mind-controlling that rover!!

Previous comments apply - vendetta option, etc etc

	21-06-2005 08:43									#21
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Wow, after we spank Lal we're going to have this awesome invasion force just sitting there doing nothing. How could we keep these boys busy after the Lal invasion? Yang, perhaps?

	21-06-2005 12:30									#22
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I think war with Morgan would completely alienate us. That looks like no go for the framing.

As to the invasion force... well... the Angels happen to be pretty close, too.

	21-06-2005 13:44									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Modo44 I think war with Morgan would completely alienate us. That looks like no go for the framing.

But would someone know it? Lal would just declare vendetta on Morgan and the others would just *suspect* that we are behind this.
And it would provide the perfect casus belli:
"Brother Lal, in a rare display of bureaucratic anger, declared war on Morgan. In order to protect our investment in the trade with the Corporation, we had to intervene to stop the self-righteous wimp to hurt our commerce partner too badly!"

	21-06-2005 14:22									#24
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Oh, I see. That is no big problem. I thought it would be us declaring on Morgan.

	21-06-2005 14:38									#25
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as i currently dont have a computer with smax on it (i know shame on me) can some one perhaps post a picture with or warplans drawn on it?

	21-06-2005 19:35									#26
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quote: Originally posted by vishniac But would someone know it? Lal would just declare vendetta on Morgan and the others would just *suspect* that we are behind this. And it would provide the perfect casus belli: "Brother Lal, in a rare display of bureaucratic anger, declared war on Morgan. In order to protect our investment in the trade with the Corporation, we had to intervene to stop the self-righteous wimp to hurt our commerce partner too badly!"

But the PeaceKeepers are already in Vendetta with both Morgan and the Gaians (at our instigation)

So it's only the Angels that we could frame, and as they are the PK's pactmates, they might just get an "overlook for now" reply - not worth it, really

	21-06-2005 19:53									#27
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As there might be lots of units around UN High Commission, while Tegea Harbour is only defended by a CDF IIRC, would it be advisable to keep two or so aircraft near TH to prevent a massive rover march towards our lightly defended border?

	21-06-2005 20:07									#28
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We should use our planes in Iaci Base to make quick surveys of northern Lalaland in 2176 (returning them to base, of course). We must know what's there.

	21-06-2005 20:27									#29
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quote: Originally posted by DeathByTheSword as i currently dont have a computer with smax on it (i know shame on me) can some one perhaps post a picture with or warplans drawn on it?

Northern and western task Forces will reach the staging area next turn (2176)

Also next turn, Crypteia ops will subvert a couple of PK units using "untraceable capture"

2177: Air assault on Planning Authority to empty the base of defenders, then the R-112 amphrover lands and secures the base. task forces then dock, and fan out to take the remaining 3 bases

Simultaneously, the subverted units will converge on and take UN High Commission

The whole exercise should net us 5 PK bases in 1 turn (don't know if the AA survives an air attack - we might have to capture the base from the sea with a unbit still in it - need to simulate that preturn)

At some point during the exercise Lal will undoubtedly call and want to surrender - the question is, do we wait until we have all 5 bases, or acept it partway (maybe after we take Planning Authority and Commerce Committee, which has the AA's, and also High Commission, which gives us our port on that ocean

	21-06-2005 20:33									#30
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Interesting thought - when I closed the 2175 turn, we got the message that Lal had started the Neural Amplifier. I wonder if he'll move those 2 AA's to the SP base to assist in the build?

We don't (yet) know which base he's building it in, but if he does move the AA's, and if we can't capture them before they get allocated to the SP, do we want to stall the invasion until the SP gets completed, then snag it though conquest or extortion?