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Alexander's Horse
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Panmunjon, hands up!
Jan 1970
time: 15:33
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I saw the screenshots and didn't like them for a few reasons:
The landscapes are very busy - this tiring for the eyes - and a problem for quickly finding units, resources etc.
The colour scheme is unattractive - civ 2 had the most attractive and it was very simple - nice rich primary colours - you could easily find resources, units cities etc.
The sprites are way too big - they need to be more in proportion to the landscape - they just look like giants now, and rather ridiculous - but I like the fact the sprites are groups, something I proposed years ago - though I'd rather see little legions and phalanxes with battle flags than what look right now like wresting teams. Can you give us an option for that?
The cities are way too small - this game is about cities. The graphics for cities should give a sense of their wealth, power and military strength, even at a long view. It would also help if their underlying terrain was evident so defensive strength could be quickly calculated. When you look at a group of cities you should be able to easily see which is powerful and which is not.
The graphic team needs to consider players will spend hours staring at the game maps - simplify the graphics and make the colour scheme more attractive please and the essential gameplay relevant bits easy to find and we'll all be grateful. It helps us manage our civs - id new places for cities, find our units, special resources, work out what needs terraforming etc.
If you want that "one more turn feel", players have to be comfortable looking at their monitor for long periods. After the first game or 2 noone cares what the freakin mountains look like or how many loops there are on the rivers, as long as they easy to identify and look at. You want to build something beautiful by your civ, not the underlying terrain.
Get those damn graphic artists under control - these games aren't about eye candy - they are a distraction and really show no understanding of what gamers need from a map. All game graphics and map features should assist gameplay and ease of reference, allow for a wholist view of the state of play, economic development, military strategy etc.
If they don't, get rid of them, or allow players to remove them in an options menu. We want clean utilitarian maps.
Jeez I hope the world map scrolls this time and there are adequate zooms. I couldn't believe civ 3 wouldn't recentre so you could look at the map from different angles the way civ 1 and 2 did - what a giant leap backwards that was.
On the whole I thought the graphics and sprites were ugly and not very play friendly. Its worrying - another gameplay graphic disaster like civ 3 in the making I fear. Civ 3 also had dreadful non gameplay friendly maps and graphics. You could never tell what the state of play was at a glance.
Go play civ 2 and you'll see what I mean. Probably too late now.
Last edited by Alexander's Horse on 18-06-2005 at 10:09
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Solver
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Apolyton Duke Of Something
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Latvia, Riga
Sep 2000
time: 07:33
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The good thing is that some of the graphics do make it easier to figure out stuff - you can see which resources are being worked through animations, and at close zoom, you can city what your city has built.
I agree, of course, that there should not be too much eye candy, but, unfortunately, to sell a game nowadays, it must have some eye candy, or it simply will not have good sales - Civ4 will sell over a million copies anyway, and of these people, 5% top will be diehard hardcore civvers like many of us here, and even of them, not all have the same opinion about graphics.
Zoom seems to be a strong point in Civ4, though, as you can zoom in close, and also zoom far out to play the game in a fashion more like Civ1, where you could see a lot on the screen at the same time.
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Vince278
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I must say I agree. Maps look too busy, cities too small, units too big, and the coloring. I hope some things, like unit size and coloring, are customizable.
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ISTANBUL
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silicon valley
Jul 2003
time: 21:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
I saw the screenshots and didn't like them for a few reasons:
The landscapes are very busy - this tiring for the eyes - and a problem for quickly finding units, resources etc.
The colour scheme is unattractive - civ 2 had the most attractive and it was very simple - nice rich primary colours - you could easily find resources, units cities etc.
The sprites are way too big - they need to be more in proportion to the landscape - they just look like giants now, and rather ridiculous - but I like the fact the sprites are groups, something I proposed years ago - though I'd rather see little legions and phalanxes with battle flags than what look right now like wresting teams. Can you give us an option for that?
The cities are way too small - this game is about cities. The graphics for cities should give a sense of their wealth, power and military strength, even at a long view. It would also help if their underlying terrain was evident so defensive strength could be quickly calculated. When you look at a group of cities you should be able to easily see which is powerful and which is not.
The graphic team needs to consider players will spend hours staring at the game maps - simplify the graphics and make the colour scheme more attractive please and the essential gameplay relevant bits easy to find and we'll all be grateful. It helps us manage our civs - id new places for cities, find our units, special resources, work out what needs terraforming etc.
If you want that "one more turn feel", players have to be comfortable looking at their monitor for long periods. After the first game or 2 noone cares what the freakin mountains look like or how many loops there are on the rivers, as long as they easy to identify and look at. You want to build something beautiful by your civ, not the underlying terrain.
If they don't, get rid of them, or allow players to remove them in an options menu. We want clean utilitarian maps.
Jeez I hope the world map scrolls this time and there are adequate zooms. I couldn't believe civ 3 wouldn't recentre so you could look at the map from different angles the way civ 1 and 2 did - what a giant leap backwards that was.
On the whole I thought the graphics and sprites were ugly and not very play friendly.
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I ABSOLUTELY AGREE.
Eventually someone spoke up about how ugly the screenshots look. 
Civ3 looked much more beautiful than CTP2 and Civ4 is back to frame number 1.
Last edited by ISTANBUL on 19-06-2005 at 13:45
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Qwi
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Yeah, the games going to be fine guys... Take a look at the screens from before and during e3 and the ones that came out just recently and theres a huge difference in quality and "busy-ness". It's going to look great... but if whinning about it now is your way of passing the time till it releases by all mean don't let me get in your way.
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Adm.Naismith
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Milano - Italy
Oct 1999
time: 06:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
The landscapes are very busy - this tiring for the eyes - and a problem for quickly finding units, resources etc. |
You have a point about user interface, still it seems we can modify the map to a very schematic view from the top, ala Civ 1. I'll wait more info about it.
quote:
Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
The sprites are way too big - they need to be more in proportion to the landscape - they just look like giants now, and rather ridiculous |
I have the feeling the "giant effect" is collateral to unrelated zoom level: you zoom in/out the map, but units doesn't resize properly.
Maybe it happens because the graphic work is still in progress, maybe it is so by design: I hope for the former, still this is not a showstopper for me.
quote:
Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
The cities are way too small - this game is about cities. The graphics for cities should give a sense of their wealth, power and military strength, even at a long view. It would also help if their underlying terrain was evident so defensive strength could be quickly calculated. When you look at a group of cities you should be able to easily see which is powerful and which is not.
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IIRC there was an old CivIII suggestion to show the city as enlarged on the map, to fill with suburbs every worked tile. Current mix of animated worked tiles and buildings on the main map, could be a balanced approach; IMHO to judge it we need to see more well developed map (usually modern time game), to evaluate how filled up they became. You know: net of roads and RRs, irrigated and mined everywhere... any graphic modder know how a nice single, alternative tile, can became a mess at end game. 
quote:
Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
If you want that "one more turn feel", players have to be comfortable looking at their monitor for long periods. After the first game or 2 noone cares what the freakin mountains look like or how many loops there are on the rivers, as long as they easy to identify and look at. You want to build something beautiful by your civ, not the underlying terrain.
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Well, a mix of both seems to me less a "concrete carpet" than your "city over everything", approach  Maybe it's my fault. 
quote:
Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Jeez I hope the world map scrolls this time and there are adequate zooms. I couldn't believe civ 3 wouldn't recentre so you could look at the map from different angles the way civ 1 and 2 did - what a giant leap backwards that was. |
I didn't used to zoom around in Civ 1 and 2, nor to change angles. My bad.  I liked to move on SMAC map, but it used a kind of 3D terrain, with "line of sight" needs. As far as I have seen on the preview clip Civ IV scrolls and zoom quite well, so it seems to me you are too much worried.
quote:
Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Probably too late now. |
For an engine change? You can bet on it, it's late.
For some polishing of the graphics? Some can be in final development, but I think we can't have too much "last months changes", because they are probably already using the graphic (human) resources to add some scenary or "conquest" custom units, resources and environment, or wonder movies.
Don't worry, IMHO there are some very good modders around here that can offer some different set of graphics in a couple of months.
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ThaddeusAlexander
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Toronto, Canada (Canada's TRUE capitol :))
Dec 2000
time: 00:33
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I understand the minimalist view on Civ ... I mean, the game has that top-down feature that I'm sure, with some simple mods, can make the game look basically like Civ1 
For me, I like the graphics that I've seen. I'm very casual and visual when it comes to games, and I must admit that if the game isn't pleasing to me, then I simply can't get into it. For me, Civ4 looks good.
Heck I just bought a new computer and I can't wait to run Civ4 with all the bells and whistles at the highest quality possible.
But like I said, I'm casual. I enjoy sitting back and looking at a beautiful map, not rushing and number crunching. I know some people love to crunch numbers and thats fine. I think the key to Civ games is places like Apolyton and CFC where people can grab the mods that'll make the game more personalized.
Thank God civ has such a wonderful community.
Cheers
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Lancer
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Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:33
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It might be good to make an enemy ship invisible unless it is in the same square as your ship. Might be hard to implement, but it would make the oceans bigger. Way too small in all the early civ games.
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Vince278
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That would be like making the fog of war apply to units as well as the map.
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Aphex_Twin2
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I keep wondering if Civ 4 will be moddable at the level of game interface. One old-time dream would be to make a Civ3-like game (what C4 will likely be) with Civ2 interface (and possibly some improvements). Civ games are extremely long lasting so why hog system resources with JUST the game? This is what put me off Civ3 and I suspect will do the same with Civ4. I liked the extra features, but it was SO slow and bloated. I don't mean that because it ate into system resources (which was a more minor issue), but you could be surfing the web, doing work, listening to music and have a piece of civ stacked in a window somewhere back with Civ2.
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Vince278
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Neither of which is on the Iranian flag.
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Apolyton Time is 00:33. |
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18-06-2005 09:28
That's a weird view.
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