19-06-2005 23:24									#31
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Why do people post so much about America's flaws where there are so many flaws in other countries?

Why is the sky blue?

Will this circle jerk over China ever end?

	19-06-2005 23:27									#32
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I have to say, my opinion of Che has dropped dramatically today. Yes, he's posted some crazy things in the past, but now he's beginning to sound like a left-wing loony out of touch with reality. I'm sorry, if I sound insulting Che. I do like you, but I can't deny what I see. Your becoming the left-wing version of what you claim to despise. I've been seeing a lot of this among lefties after Bush's reelection. Come back to the light Che. You can still support socialist ideals without dividing everything into black and white and us and them.

	19-06-2005 23:29									#33
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I have no problem with criticism of the Chinese government's political repression. Their support for dictatorial regimes is immoral, but sadly in that respect China is purely normal.

The only thing that gets my goat is when everything in China is assume to be some centrally planned evil, as opposed to the everyday banality of evil.

For example, the chicken virus thread- I can easily see that happening in Latin America also: people with vested economic interests who could not give a rats ass about some theoritical concept such as "the public good". Hey, they don;t think they'll get sick from their behavior (otherwise they would not do it), why assume anyone else will?

	19-06-2005 23:31									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Timexwatch Why do people post so much about America's flaws where there are so many flaws in other countries? Why is the sky blue? Will this circle jerk over China ever end?

I think China has become a fad over the actions of a certain moderator and an easily trolled poster.

I enjoy discussing China. I think its interesting. There's a lot of good and bad here, and it makes for fascinating discussion.

	19-06-2005 23:31									#35
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My opinion of che isn't overly based on the stuff he posts. He's a fixture, part of this funny farm... Interesting guy and one of the many good reasons to keep coming back.

	19-06-2005 23:32									#36
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i made a thread about the congo.
and one about women slavery in europe.
im very passionate about whats happening to
women and children anywhere. starvation..
poverty. abuse.

what have i got against china..
i am against their population policy.
makes their whole population gender nazi's

	19-06-2005 23:32									#37
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In case you hadn't noticed, DaShi, there were two anti-China threads on the front page today. You made an anti-China post for no reason in an unrelated thread, and there are half a dozen, plus, Chinese flag monsters as avatars. Are you seriously trying to make the case there isn't a lot of Chinese bashing going on?

Timexwatch, we biitch about our own countries because they are our own countries, and ones, presumably, upon which we have some impact. We also have a right to be offended by what is done in our name and with our resources and demand change.

	19-06-2005 23:34									#38
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quote: Originally posted by GePap I have no problem with criticism of the Chinese government's political repression. Their support for dictatorial regimes is immoral, but sadly in that respect China is purely normal. The only thing that gets my goat is when everything in China is assume to be some centrally planned evil, as opposed to the everyday banality of evil. For example, the chicken virus thread- I can easily see that happening in Latin America also: people with vested economic interests who could not give a rats ass about some theoritical concept such as "the public good". Hey, they don;t think they'll get sick from their behavior (otherwise they would not do it), why assume anyone else will?

Yes, but it's the nature of this forum to post things with a slightly sensational edge.

However, Chinese culture is very different from that of the west. I think a lot of the arguments come from one side who has seen this and is shocked by it, and the other who refuses to believe it and thinks it's an attack against China.

	19-06-2005 23:34									#39
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara In case you hadn't noticed, DaShi, there were two anti-China threads on the front page today. You made an anti-China post for no reason in an unrelated thread, and there are half a dozen, plus, Chinese flag monsters as avatars. Are you seriously trying to make the case there isn't a lot of Chinese bashing going on?

Those "flag monsters" are one of the coolest looking avatar I have seen.

God bless the

	19-06-2005 23:35									#40
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quote: Originally posted by boann what have i got against china.. i am against their population policy. makes their whole population gender nazi's

It's the culture that makes them gender Nazis. Even without the one-child policy, they'd be doing the same thing, only having multiple boys, instead of just one.

	19-06-2005 23:35									#41
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quote: You made an anti-China post for no reason in an unrelated thread, and there are half a dozen, plus, Chinese flag monsters as avatars.

They're not about China, but a person who takes Chinese policies and applies them to Apolyton.

	19-06-2005 23:37									#42
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quote: Originally posted by DaShi However, Chinese culture is very different from that of the west. I think a lot of the arguments come from one side who has seen this and is shocked by it, and the other who refuses to believe it and thinks it's an attack against China.

I'm not shocked by Chinese culture. In many ways, it's too alien to shock me. I do think China is fascinating to discuss, but lately all I've seen is teh eveil China threads.

	19-06-2005 23:37									#43
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quote: Originally posted by DaShi Yes, but it's the nature of this forum to post things with a slightly sensational edge. However, Chinese culture is very different from that of the west. I think a lot of the arguments come from one side who has seen this and is shocked by it, and the other who refuses to believe it and thinks it's an attack against China.

So what if the culture is different?

Culture is, for one thing, variable. Second, culture does not really totally rule people's lives and it has even less to do with governing.

As I said, I dislike when personal and local greed, incompetence is supposed to exemplify the entire country and 1.3 billion people. I am sure there are people in the Chinese ministry of health aghast at what is going on-they represent China just as much as the people acting ignorantly.

	19-06-2005 23:38									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Asher They're not about China, but a person who takes Chinese MarkG's and DanQ's policies and applies them to Apolyton.

When he banned you, you deserved it.

	19-06-2005 23:39									#45
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You're clueless, che.

	19-06-2005 23:40									#46
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara In case you hadn't noticed, DaShi, there were two anti-China threads on the front page today. You made an anti-China post for no reason in an unrelated thread, and there are half a dozen, plus, Chinese flag monsters as avatars. Are you seriously trying to make the case there isn't a lot of Chinese bashing going on?

In order:

Anti-China is a matter of perspective. See some of my previous posts. Also, people are free to discuss what they want. China is a rising power. It's a new and unique culture that is emerging in a way never before. Of course, there will be discourse on it. Plus, the reason I mentioned earlier.

Yes, Spiffor caught the meaning of that immediately. I was trying to point out how it is often done to the US (which you have been guilty of on more than one occasion). Also, I wasn't lying. I do hear a lot of stories here, mostly from other Chinese people, that shake my faith.

Che, come on. We all know those avatars are not really about China.

	19-06-2005 23:40									#47
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara It's the culture that makes them gender Nazis. Even without the one-child policy, they'd be doing the same thing, only having multiple boys, instead of just one.

thats true , it just makes it quite clear
how they feel about women in general.
i think they will find one day .. as their female
population keeps shrinking...
well duh.. who makes the babies...
as it is now.. i think its 20 to one or something like that
last time i cked.

	19-06-2005 23:40									#48
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quote: Originally posted by GePap For example, the chicken virus thread- I can easily see that happening in Latin America also: people with vested economic interests who could not give a rats ass about some theoritical concept such as "the public good". Hey, they don;t think they'll get sick from their behavior (otherwise they would not do it), why assume anyone else will?

You must've missed the part where this was official government policy.

	19-06-2005 23:43									#49
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I'm not shocked by Chinese culture. In many ways, it's too alien to shock me. I do think China is fascinating to discuss, but lately all I've seen is teh eveil China threads.

Of course you're not shocked. You haven't seen it, and you don't believe it.


Please post some teh goood China threads

	19-06-2005 23:45									#50
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Timexwatch, we biitch about our own countries because they are our own countries, and ones, presumably, upon which we have some impact. We also have a right to be offended by what is done in our name and with our resources and demand change.

I'm being a bit dense here, but does this mean that we should get a moratorim on Europeans posting about the U.S.?

And this whole row reminds me of the occasional "Why does everyone hate Russia" flare-ups that we sometimes get here.

	19-06-2005 23:46									#51
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Steering the thread to something substantive:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0614/p09s02-coop.html

quote: What the world media are missing is one of the deadliest conflicts since World War II: 3.8 million people have died in the Congo since 1998, dwarfing not only the biggest of natural catastrophes, such as December's South Asia tsunami, but also other manmade horrors, such as Darfur.

	19-06-2005 23:46									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker You must've missed the part where this was official government policy.

No, I did not.

My point is that your statement that China is threatening the world is assenine.

That is bad health policy, not immoral health policy. Would you claim that SA's AIDs policy under the M'Beki government puts the whole world in danger by allowing more cases of a disaese that has already killed 20 Million plus? (as opposed to an unknown danger?)

Just look at Shawnn's post in that thread.

	19-06-2005 23:48									#53
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara When he banned you, you deserved it.

Just like the citizens of China deserve their censorship. How dare they break China's laws!

	19-06-2005 23:51									#54
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quote: Originally posted by GePap So what if the culture is different? Culture is, for one thing, variable. Second, culture does not really totally rule people's lives and it has even less to do with governing.

Then you don't understand China.

quote: As I said, I dislike when personal and local greed, incompetence is supposed to exemplify the entire country and 1.3 billion people. I am sure there are people in the Chinese ministry of health aghast at what is going on-they represent China just as much as the people acting ignorantly.

And what can they do? If they speak out someone higher up will lose face. Often those that do are labelled "China-bashers." They could lose their jobs or worse. When a football on a Chinese team spoke to a reporter of the corruption in a match between Hangzhou and Shanghai (which was obviously rigged), the reporter twisted his words. He was labelled a traitor and suspended from the team. This is a part of China's culture, and it greatly affects their politics and lives.

	19-06-2005 23:53									#55
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quote: Originally posted by DaShi And what can they do? If they speak out someone higher up will lose face. Often those that do are labelled "China-bashers." They could lose their jobs or worse. When a football on a Chinese team spoke to a reporter of the corruption in a match between Hangzhou and Shanghai (which was obviously rigged), the reporter twisted his words. He was labelled a traitor and suspended from the team. This is a part of China's culture, and it greatly affects their politics and lives.

And you think this attitude would be the same in a democratic China?

	19-06-2005 23:54									#56
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quote: Originally posted by GePap No, I did not. My point is that your statement that China is threatening the world is assenine. That is bad health policy, not immoral health policy. Would you claim that SA's AIDs policy under the M'Beki government puts the whole world in danger by allowing more cases of a disaese that has already killed 20 Million plus? (as opposed to an unknown danger?) Just look at Shawnn's post in that thread.

I'll agree that some posters go to far. They do on both sides of the issue. But that's no reason to dismiss entire threads and points and label anyone who criticizes China as a "China-basher."

	19-06-2005 23:56									#57
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Also, che sure knows how to stir the pot.

	19-06-2005 23:58									#58
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quote: Originally posted by GePap And you think this attitude would be the same in a democratic China?

I think this attitude will slow the progress of a democratic China.

	20-06-2005 00:08									#59
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Those "flag monsters" are one of the coolest looking avatar I have seen. God bless the

Yet another reason of Eventis' superiority. It's already a smiley there

	20-06-2005 00:08									#60
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And how is Hong Kong different from China itself?

They had a democratic system that seems highly popular and they are Chinese (yes, the system set up by the UK, but the participants are Chinese). I don;t see Chinatown's around the world as dens of undemocratic corruption, anymore than any other ethnic neighborhoods- that's one reaosn why I perhaps don;t buy the "culture" arguement heavily.