21-06-2005 08:10									#31
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by DanS You know that and I know that. But that's a reasonably long-term process. They might want to stick it to the infidel for a while in the meantime.

They can't afford to do it for long, and it would be bad policy anyway.

They aren't interested in you anyway. Your job was to attack Iraq or some other Muslim country and galvanize popular opinion against the pro western secular Islamic regimes.

If they win SA, it is "Mission Accomplished".

	21-06-2005 08:12									#32
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

No, our job was to attack Afghanistan, which we duly did. It might be more convenient for them that Iraq is majority infidel Shiite, but...

	21-06-2005 08:13									#33
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by DanS No, our job was to attack Afghanistan, which we duly did.

Yes, and you won (sort of).

Then you gave them a second chance by invading Iraq.

Dumbest move of the century, bro. Must be that American sense of fair play.

	21-06-2005 08:15									#34
	Support Apolyton

Just a change of scenery. If they aren't attacking civilians in Iraq, they're attacking them in Afghanistan.

It is ironic that we're considering Afghan Sunnis more reliable allies than the Iraqi Shiites. You know, the same Afghans who changed alliances weekly only a couple of years ago.

	21-06-2005 08:18									#35
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by DanS Just a change of scenery. If they aren't attacking civilians in Iraq, they're attacking them in Afghanistan. It is ironic that we're considering Afghan Sunnis more reliable allies than the Iraqi Shiites. I have some sympathy with that view...

You want them onside. Crack down on Israel. Every Arab in the world would kiss Bush's ass.

	21-06-2005 08:21									#36
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

The Israeli problem is something of a strawman, even though obviously it might help with the moderates in the Arab world (where will we find them...). Recreation of the Caliphate doesn't have much to do with Israel, AFAIK. Notice that AQ doesn't talk much about Israel.

Anyway, I think there's a chance that Israel/Palestine will settle. Might be 50 years from now, though. Not something we can really control.

	21-06-2005 08:28									#37
	Support Apolyton

quote: The Israeli problem is something of a strawman, even though obviously it might help with the moderates in the Arab world (where will we find them...). Recreation of the Caliphate doesn't have much to do with Israel, AFAIK. Notice that AQ doesn't talk much about Israel.

OBL does. It's a sore point he can prod.

	21-06-2005 08:31									#38
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

He just tacks it on at the end. He can prod the sore point, but like I said before, it's just a change of scenery. He's got plenty to choose from, or can just make this **** up out of wholecloth. If It's not Somalia, it's Sudan. If it's not Sudan, it's Afghanistan. If it's not Afghanistan, it's Iraq, etc.. The core ideology doesn't really reference the Israeli question.

	21-06-2005 08:33									#39
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Still, it would be worth it just to see the look on LOTM's face.

Don't worry. I doubt it will happen in SA.

	21-06-2005 08:36									#40
	Got spare money?

Besides, I admit to wanting to stick it to the Saudis out of spite as a bonus. A post-modern salting of the fields. Maybe that's irrational.

Last edited by DanS on 21-06-2005 at 08:48

	21-06-2005 09:06									#41
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Believe me when I say that Islamic terrorists are the worst of Americas problems...once people pull away from religion, they'll have to find new reasons to attack America besides the fact that it is run by a bunch of white Christians...no, then they'll start attacking it because it promotes democracy and freedom...

Whatever America does, the Arabs will support the opposite, even if it means supporting an Athiest Police State known as China...

Funny that CCP is very similiar to CCCP (USSR in Russian, of course)...

	21-06-2005 09:07									#42
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Agathon Still, it would be worth it just to see the look on LOTM's face. Don't worry. I doubt it will happen in SA.

Are you that much of a sadist?

	21-06-2005 10:32									#43
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by DanS I don't want our way of life dictated by fundies.

If fundies means religious extremists, you should take care that some large tribes have strong political influence in the US, and ceaselessly they attempt to change your way of life.

	21-06-2005 11:23									#44
	Suffering from ads?

Agathon is completely wrong about the Saudis having to 'eat sand'. They're more or less self-sufficient in terms of food production.

	21-06-2005 11:28									#45
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove I wonder what these Suadi volunteers think about blowing up Shia mosques? Are they really cruising for an inter-national religious civil war?

The Sunni terrorists considered attacking Shites to be a religious obligation since they view Shi'a to be heritics. Even Albert Speer, our poster here, who is a moderate muslim would occationally ramble on about the Shi'a heritics. Further more the Sunnis Arabs have come to the conclusion that in a democracy they will be a small minority instead of the ruling faction they've been for the last 500 years. Under Turkish, British, and even up until 2003 the Sunnis were considered the educated, wealthy, and elite which would retain power in the country. Each foreign invader up until the current coopted the Sunni by allowing them to remain the ruling elite as long as they worked as middlemen. The US/UK in 2003 over throw the Sunni Arab elite and attempted to replace it with a democracy headed by a Shiite-Kurd alliance.

The population of Iraq is:

60% Shi'a Arab
15.5%-16% Kurd (mostly Sunni about 10% Shi'a but they all put Kurdish nationalism ahead of religion)
3% Assyrian-Chaldean Christians (same group but with minor religious differences. Chaldeans claim Pope is head of Church, Assyrians claim local Patriarch is head but rites are the same)
1%-1.5% Turkmen
20% Sunni Arab

The Sunnis clearly can't hold on to power since the Shi'as want power after being denied it for centuries while even Sunni Kurds hate Arabs more then they like fellow Sunnis. The other groups don't amount to enough to mean much of anything.

	21-06-2005 11:32									#46
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Sandman Agathon is completely wrong about the Saudis having to 'eat sand'. They're more or less self-sufficient in terms of food production.

This is done via massive farm subsidies which would make even the most fat cat EU farmer drool with envy. There isn't much water in the country but the Saudis use petrol dollars to desalination sea water in order to irrigate crops. Talk about uneconomical. Yet the water is free from the king to his subjects if they don't meddle in politics and they do as they're told. It's a tremendous waste of money since it would be cheaper just to give everyone free food then pay for such massive cash and assistance subsidies but the economy sucks so bad and the Saudi people are so untrained for any other form of economically useful work that this is done as a make work program.

	21-06-2005 11:36									#47
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Yeah, but a fundamentalist Saudi Arabia wouldn't starve right away if they stopped exporting oil, as Agathon suggested.

	21-06-2005 11:57									#48
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Agathon Again, what are they going to eat? That country exists on its oil exports. Without them they don't have jack to eat. They can't but sell it to the highest bidder. This "oil weapon" stuff is pure fantasy. There are far too many people living and eating in SA now for it to be effective.

I have to agree. For once Aggie has it right. Saudi Arabia has nothing else to sell but oil and gas and it has massive obligations since virtually everything else must be imported. The Saudi education system is a dismal failure where half of the students get degrees in theology or don't even bother with free education and instead become manual laborers at construction or farms. This society would still be happy as desert nomads except for the discovery of oil which allowed them to think like nomads but live in a more modern fashion. They literally export and make nothing else.

	21-06-2005 12:48									#49
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by DAVOUT If fundies means religious extremists, you should take care that some large tribes have strong political influence in the US, and ceaselessly they attempt to change your way of life.

This is a good point.

Bush believes (I'm sure there is an EXACT quote out there) that he has been given a direct mandate from God. And also that's his total power base.

Regarding the Saudis, it is frustrating. Maybe one of our puppets (Iraq or Afghanistan) can go public and criticize them for creating an incubator for these idiots. I doubt that would ever happen though.

	21-06-2005 13:46									#50
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Lord Nuclear Are you that much of a sadist?

Don't you know that the world revolves around petty point scoring on Apolyton's OT Forum?

Shame on you!

	21-06-2005 19:38									#51
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by DAVOUT If fundies means religious extremists, you should take care that some large tribes have strong political influence in the US, and ceaselessly they attempt to change your way of life.

You have some strange notions about the U.S.

	21-06-2005 19:44									#52
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Christian fundamentalists want to destroy our democratic republic from within and Islamic fundamentalists want to destroy it from without.

	21-06-2005 19:47									#53
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by DanS You have some strange notions about the U.S.

It is not the notions that are strange, but some people ... You should read The last crusade by Barbara Victor.

	21-06-2005 19:50									#54
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

why would KSA have to stop all exports of oil to wield the oil weapon? Coudnt they just use their status of swing producer to generally disrupt markets? (granted, at great cost to themselves - but not starvation) Alternatively, they could use their money to support terror elsewhere (overtly and massively, for y'all who think they already do)

	21-06-2005 19:52									#55
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by MrFun Christian fundamentalists want to destroy our democratic republic from within and Islamic fundamentalists want to destroy it from without.

yeah, cause putting idiotic stickers on biology texts, and denying gays a right that they probably ought to have, but have done without for the first 224 years of American history, will surely destroy the Republic. Yeah, right.

	21-06-2005 19:54									#56
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by DAVOUT If fundies means religious extremists, you should take care that some large tribes have strong political influence in the US, and ceaselessly they attempt to change your way of life.

large tribes? I think we have a translation problem here.

	21-06-2005 19:59									#57
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Saudia Arabia is on a good way. For example currently they are debating if women can be allowed to drive cars or not.

	21-06-2005 20:02									#58
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Much as I dislike American fundies, most of them wouldn't want to topple democracy or destroy western civilization.

As for SA, we should train squirrels to steal their sand till there's nothing left of the place.

	21-06-2005 20:06									#59
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Agathon There'll be jack you can do about it if they do anyway, so that's wasted effort.

They could invade a neighbour Arab country, with idea of having a friendly (puppet?) democracy there to use to make war "indirectly" just in case Saudis go fundy.

	21-06-2005 20:23									#60
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Agathon Don't you know that the world revolves around petty point scoring on Apolyton's OT Forum? Shame on you!