04-07-2005 18:26									#61
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I tend to avoid using atrocities, simply because I run a very high commerce game, but I've certainly got no problems with throwing around the PB's or Nerve Gas should the situation warrent it. I've never needed to bring them to bear on an AI opponent as of yet, but in at least one of my current PBEM's. I'm looking to deploy gas within a few turns to deal with an opponent who's really dug themselves into their defensive positions.

I find obliteration of bases to be rather handy as well. Nothing like scorched earth tactics to ruin the day of drop troops, and give yourself a nice defensive buffer zone.

	04-07-2005 21:03									#62
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for me it's rather matter of faction i choose to play - i would never use atrocities playing Gaia, Cult or... Morgan (but here it's a matter of money than ideology )
when i play the game i try to act as the faction i play and if i play the Pirates (for example) you can await the worst things you can expect from the Pirates

	06-07-2005 00:06									#63
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I've never actually reached the level of research where I could utilize a Planet Buster- so I haven't had that opportunity. I probably wouldn't use it though.

I do tend to nerve staple droids though, from time to time if a revolt is going on for multiple turns. I figure, if they revolt long enough, despite leniency- they deserve to pay.

Sadly, atrocities are bad for trade- and my favorite factions are Morganites and University Free Market... and Lal's PK's would never nerve staple.

however, since I usually become amazingly powerful, everyone's generally at war with me anyways, so the CEO and the Academian usually get to have a little fun with thankless unfaithful citizens.

*edit: as an addenum: I always nerve staple any free drone base I come across. I basically do my best to completely destroy the free-market-hating fiends.

In my games I never make peace with the Cult, Believers or Free Drones- ever.

I also never pay extortion money- so Santiago and Yang are frequently at war with me. And I see no problem utilizing atrocities against them and their citizens as they obviously deserve *** for tat.

Last edited by DarkCloud on 06-07-2005 at 00:16

	06-07-2005 01:04									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Archaic I tend to avoid using atrocities, simply because I run a very high commerce game, but I've certainly got no problems with throwing around the PB's or Nerve Gas should the situation warrent it. I've never needed to bring them to bear on an AI opponent as of yet, but in at least one of my current PBEM's. I'm looking to deploy gas within a few turns to deal with an opponent who's really dug themselves into their defensive positions. .

I agree. I don't use atrocities much . In solo play it seems unnecessary but in PBEMs I have tossed a PB or two, though usually only in situations where their impact was so crushing as to be game ending

	06-07-2005 03:23									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Flubber I agree. I don't use atrocities much . In solo play it seems unnecessary but in PBEMs I have tossed a PB or two, though usually only in situations where their impact was so crushing as to be game ending

Yeah, Archaic and I can probably remember at least one instance of this occuring....


D

	06-07-2005 05:10									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Darsnan Yeah, Archaic and I can probably remember at least one instance of this occuring.... D

ya the combo of a PB strike and mutiple ODP launches can be potent

	18-07-2005 08:52									#67
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I'm in the "Special Occasion" group (always in solo games).
Even if I have to march my troops out under an iron shower of every sort of nastiness (including from the Progenitors), I'll restrain myself from launching any sort of retaliatory atrocity as long as is humanly possible.
I'm usually able to send out Bombers and bring forward Probe Teams and Paratroopers to mess up production and divert defenses so my Infantry and Armor can break through and finish the job.
In those unfortunate circumstances that call for more extreme measures, well, don't dish it out if you can't take it.

	18-07-2005 09:33									#68
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quote: Originally posted by gwillybj I'm in the "Special Occasion" group (always in solo games). Even if I have to march my troops out under an iron shower of every sort of nastiness (including from the Progenitors), I'll restrain myself from launching any sort of retaliatory atrocity as long as is humanly possible. I'm usually able to send out Bombers and bring forward Probe Teams and Paratroopers to mess up production and divert defenses so my Infantry and Armor can break through and finish the job. In those unfortunate circumstances that call for more extreme measures, well, don't dish it out if you can't take it.

Thought you left Poly dude.



My point is, if your opponent is PB'ing you into submission or gassing you, etc...would you still try to restrain yourself EVEN IF you have the unit capable and ready?

Is M.A.D. a viable option IF, and only IF, your opponent does the first act?

	18-07-2005 17:23									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Flubber ya the combo of a PB strike and mutiple ODP launches can be potent

*Vows revenge, someday*
To this day, I'm still not sure what scared me more. That you got into a position to instabuild those without me or Darsnan even noticing, or that you were out-teching our Uni-Gaian alliance with the damn Believers.

	18-07-2005 21:06									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Archaic *Vows revenge, someday* To this day, I'm still not sure what scared me more. That you got into a position to instabuild those without me or Darsnan even noticing, or that you were out-teching our Uni-Gaian alliance with the damn Believers.

It wasn't me-- My predecessor had an amazing amount of crawlers--the only problem was he had them prettty much all on forests. When I empasized food and started boreholing, that hidden industrial might just boomed. It made all that rushing easy too. It was sort of like taking over a faction that looks pathetic and then seeing that they have 20,000 energy credits and 20 unused colony pods.

It was a bit scary facing TWO opponents with PBs but my fear was that I would be unable to out-tech two folks in the long run -- you could leapfrog in ways I might not manage so the PB seemed a more certain win. If you can get one of those babies into an opponent heartland, you can shred an empire in one strike

I actually had the same thing happen against Mongoose. One PB ended a game. Again relative tech parity but the reactor FOUR PB took out about 4-5 of his bases and a bunch of his SPs. It was a case where I had more ODPs and shot down all of his before firing the PB. He had PB's too but was facing soemthing like a dozen ODPs and I was rushing even more.

As for the tech thing, I BELIEVE that that game used some modified factions such that the Believers didn't take their normal research hit. I wasn't in the game from the start so I could be wrong on that

	19-07-2005 06:07									#71
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Being from SMAC the granola and sandal crowd, I'd have to say no to:

Planetbusters
Nerve stapling
Nerve gassing
Genetic warfare

The only exception is that I have nerve gassed aliens, which as a Gaian I can rationalize since Planet doesn't seem to mind (which is rather strange, when you think about it - or fodder for a story...). Of course, they were GOOGLIE ENHANCED ALIENS! ACK!

In all these years of solo and PBEM I've never committed any atrocities against another player or human AI. In one memorable recent PBEM the other human player (Miriam) PBed the heck out of me (Lal). PBs were flying everywhere, and the Believers - true to form - literally scrapped their entire empire to get the resources to try to take me out. I also got PBed by the Cult, too. But I was the last man standing - a desperate and scary game for a while. It felt good that I could stand on principle and not stoop to their level; a very Lal thing to do, btw.

That said, one reason I don't play standard PBEMs with all the ruthless and amoral players out in SMAC-land is that my attitude will typically doom me to be crushed like a bug. SMAC/X has no real penalties for committing atrocities (economic sanctions? PAH! Mindworm attacks? More Planet Pearls for me! Sea level change? GREAT!), and not using this vector puts a player at a huge disadvantage against a human player.

Hydro

	19-07-2005 06:53									#72
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Nerve stapiling is very rare for me. I usually find a better way around, some sort of tech, a few new facilities, a secret project, or just slap a few talanets down cause the base is over producing any ways. Can I get a growth penalty with this? I think I need one.

PB's, avoid when I can, but some times the NPC just won't stop being an jerk. Complains out the rear, threatens you to no end, demands this and that. Some times it is like, "ok, you won't shutup and let me build in peace, TIME TO DIE!!!"(2 thumbs up, with a smile)

(some happy cheerful go lucky song from your favoret band)
(picture of sun shine breaking throught the clouds)
(happy girl and cute puppy runs across a field of grass)
(image of planet busters going off all over the hive)

(happy girl and cute puppy make cheerful noise, and the puppy gives the girl suger)
(everyone happy, the hive is dead)

(lang, in a torn up suit) I WILL NOT SURRENDER! *coughcough* with every last breath *coughcough*GAG*choak* I will stab at the!

*sigh* oh well, at least you can't ever become a threat to me ever again. Wait? Where you a threat to me when I desided I didn't want to hear you complain, threaten, and demanded?

	19-07-2005 06:57									#73
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quote: Originally posted by jadenstriker ...the base is over producing any ways...

Impossible.

	19-07-2005 06:59									#74
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Supply crawlers are good.

I usually have 30 or more laying around collecting resources remotely.

When technological development allows you to harvist resources from fungus, crewlers in a patch make for nice clear deep radars harvisters, more so with PSI armor of some kind, and large moral mods.

Coupled with green econ, any green mod you can get really, with like modding facilities and projects, extream nutrance harvisting doesn't do much eco-damage.

Besides once you base pop is so high that all you can do is assign talants and make new collonies, the only way to get more stuff harvisted is through a crawler, for those bases. At that extent I find my self changing tree farms for farms and soler cause the tech is causing mining abilities to causing damage and the planet needs a shot of shade, again. Also find my self changing the harvist of those crawlers as well. First part of the game they will be sitting on rocks, trees, miniral bonus, boreholes or any other remote high miniral pockets.

My land is usually littered with some crawler some where. At the beggining of the game is the best time for them cause you can build more crawleres then you base expands in population any ways.

Last edited by jadenstriker on 19-07-2005 at 07:12

	22-07-2005 03:52									#75
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Anything about torturing people without consequences in the real life is ok to me

	22-07-2005 12:12									#76
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quote: Originally posted by jadenstriker Nerve stapiling is very rare for me. I usually find a better way around, some sort of tech, a few new facilities, a secret project, or just slap a few talanets down cause the base is over producing any ways. Can I get a growth penalty with this? I think I need one. PB's, avoid when I can, but some times the NPC just won't stop being an jerk. Complains out the rear, threatens you to no end, demands this and that. Some times it is like, "ok, you won't shutup and let me build in peace, TIME TO DIE!!!"(2 thumbs up, with a smile) (some happy cheerful go lucky song from your favoret band) (picture of sun shine breaking throught the clouds) (happy girl and cute puppy runs across a field of grass) (image of planet busters going off all over the hive) (happy girl and cute puppy make cheerful noise, and the puppy gives the girl suger) (everyone happy, the hive is dead) (lang, in a torn up suit) I WILL NOT SURRENDER! *coughcough* with every last breath *coughcough*GAG*choak* I will stab at the! *sigh* oh well, at least you can't ever become a threat to me ever again. Wait? Where you a threat to me when I desided I didn't want to hear you complain, threaten, and demanded?

Heh, I can relate. But a couple of Deathspheres gets them off your back too.

They still whine and threaten though, despite over-whelming odds against them, which is silly (some factions do admit they were ill-advised to test my patience.)

	03-08-2005 10:52									#77
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quote: and Lal's PK's would never nerve staple.

I actually had a game with Lal and Yang at war and obliterating every single city captured from the other side

	04-08-2005 14:20									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Datajack Franit I actually had a game with Lal and Yang at war and obliterating every single city captured from the other side

That sounds about right.

Take that, stupid PK'ers!