24-06-2005 13:22									#1
	Atrocities? Suffering from ads?

I know there are some of us out there that never commit atrocities. Some of us commit them in every game. And there are a few that only do them when the need arises.

Me? Well, despite my lauding of the use of 'busters (which I really do love) I do not use them in every game. Neither do I use nerve gas. I have obliterated bases a few times, but I tend to nerve staple rioting drones like mad....mostly just for kicks...but not in every game.

I just want to know what everyone thinks of atrocities, and what you commit. Or, if you oppose atrocities, why? RP answer or game mechanics are ok.


I tend to PB because its the most effectual way to get rid of those cluster of bases that just seem too hard to crack. Nerve gas I use on the aliens. Obliteration I use on those factions that just tick me off so much that I'd rather kill them all rather than turn them into productive Hive citizens...

	24-06-2005 23:09									#2
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Let's put it this way...nerve-stapling is a no-no in my book, and is cruel and should be banned...

Nerve-gas is also generally a no-no, however, there are some instances were it would be appropriate... if the survival of my faction and my idealogy depends on it, then yes...

PBs would be treated the same as Nerve-gas, but also would be considered if they could shorten a war or reduce the necessary resources...if I can subdue the enemy by building 2 or 3 PBs, then I don't have to waste energy and minerals on a military, so the PBs would be beneficial...

Unfortunately, the AI won't stop fighting once you commit atrocities, whereas realistically, a prudent leader would surrender and save his people...

	25-06-2005 01:19									#3
	Got spare money?

If i'm playing an important game and i need the treaties i'll hold back on the atrocities but if im playing for fun then you really dont wanna bump into me
I've racked up something like 10,000years of sanctions on a fair few occasions

	25-06-2005 02:01									#4
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It's years since I last made an atrocity, and that was mainly because I wanted to see what a PB did. Oh, there was a period where I nervestapled a lot, but that was before I figured out how to control drones by other means.

Haven't ever build a nerve gas unit - it hasn't been nessecary.

Likewise with those tough clusters you mention - they haven't been a problem - a bunch of missiles, choppers and drop units is more than enough.

Oh, and the feeble forces of the Hive has always been a walkover

	25-06-2005 04:42									#5
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Atrocities (ie. Nerve gas pods) are great if you want to get rid of those gosh-derned aliens.

In all seriousness with respect to gameplay though, they're pretty much the only way to punch through the ridiculous bonuses that the alien races get.

On the other hand, I rarely use atrocities against another human faction unless the situation really calls for it (ie. the enemy is about to capture another faction's key city, which happens to have some valuable SPs, so I capture it and obliterate the base). PBs aren't really my bread and butter, because I usually have more options at my disposal to accomplish the same thing. That, and I tend to launch several tectonic/fungal missiles to screw with them.

	25-06-2005 05:08									#6
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In the base unmodified game I'd have to say no, as there's no real reason to against base AI's.

However as people in our community continue to modify and enhance the AI's to the point where they are now becoming much more competitive against humans, why I had to vote "Maybe", as on "special occasions" now I do take out AI positions with what I consider to be "appropriate means", whatever they may be.....


D

	25-06-2005 05:45									#7
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Have you been gassing my AIs?!

	25-06-2005 06:51									#8
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Staple 'em hard, staple 'em plenty. Theres no reason not to. Staple a large newly captured base and make scout rovers for upgrading. Staple the first B-drone as you haven't met anyone yet and won't lose commerce. Staple a base thats about to starve. Staple because you're pacted with someone you're about to war with and don't wish to give them money. Staple your wife when she tells you to stop paying attention to that machine.

Next Valentines day, why not staple the one you love. Its the caring thing to do.

	25-06-2005 09:45									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Senethro Staple 'em hard, staple 'em plenty. Theres no reason not to. Staple a large newly captured base and make scout rovers for upgrading. Staple the first B-drone as you haven't met anyone yet and won't lose commerce. Staple a base thats about to starve. Staple because you're pacted with someone you're about to war with and don't wish to give them money. Staple your wife when she tells you to stop paying attention to that machine. Next Valentines day, why not staple the one you love. Its the caring thing to do.

	25-06-2005 12:54									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I don't abide by the UN Charter. I live that way Charter or no Charter.
I'm one of the guys who writes the UN Charter to restrain guys like you.

	25-06-2005 14:04									#11
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

"10,000 years of sanctions?" Holy crap! Well...usually once I PB an opponent, I'll continue to PB them, from Fission all the way up to SinBusters. I remember one game where I counted 12 PB's (Fission, Fusion, and Sin mix). That was a fun game.


I think I've committed every atrocity in the game. Nervestaple, PB, Nervegas, and Obliteration (in that order). But I usually don't commit an atrocity against another faction unless there is just cause first. Nervestapling isn't considered a true atrocity in my book....

	25-06-2005 17:03									#12
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I don't commit atrocities- and I do try not to nerve gas those loveable aliens.

	25-06-2005 17:30									#13
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I never dared to try. I have never nerve-stappled, nerve gassed or planet bustered.

Seems like I should at least try the nerve-stapling thing once (I don't really know what it 'll do)

	25-06-2005 19:34									#14
	Inflate your Upload Space

I destroy all enemy bases if they don't line up with my perfect base alignment or if they don't have a secret project.

	25-06-2005 20:02									#15
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quote: Oh, and the feeble forces of the Hive has always been a walkover

Report to senethro, you've obviously shaken loose a few staples.

quote: 10,000 years of sanctions?" Holy crap!

Its not even my record i love the games where i play the Chairman in a totally ruthless form

	25-06-2005 20:10									#16
	Suffering from ads?

I just think it is dumb that SMAC/X doesn't have regular nukes and jumps all the way to the disbelief-snapping PBs. So I usually use an Alpha.txt with PBs disabled.

	25-06-2005 20:39									#17
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Why ? We could develop weapons now with a greater impact then nuclear weapons, downside being they're too great for us to currently control.

	25-06-2005 21:18									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Straybow I just think it is dumb that SMAC/X doesn't have regular nukes and jumps all the way to the disbelief-snapping PBs. So I usually use an Alpha.txt with PBs disabled.

What's so disbelief-snapping about a fission PB?

Sounds similar to the atomic bombs used in WWII... To me anyways.

And we all know they don't bust Planet, they just make her bleed mindworms

	25-06-2005 21:42									#19
	Put an end to popups!

Planet's surface area = 7.18*10^8 km^2 (from planets.txt)
Size of a standard map = 3200 tiles
Area/tile = 2.24 * 10^5 km^2
Area obliterated by a fission PB = 9 tiles = 2.02 * 10^6 km^2

Total area of the US = 9.63 * 10^6 km^2

Thus, a single fission PB takes out an area equivalent to more than a fifth of the entire US. A fusion PB takes out 25/9 times as much, or 5.61 * 10^6 km^2.

Let's analyze the volume vaporized/thrown into orbit/ejected from Planet's gravitational well by a fission PB as it lowers its impact tile by 1 km, assuming the nearby tiles started at the same elevation. For simplicity, assume the volume vaporized is all in the central tile. 1 km * 2.24 * 10^5 km^2 = 2.24 * 10^5 km^3.
This much rock (5000 kg/m^3) masses 1.12 * 10^18 kg. All of Planet masses 1.10 * 10^25 kg, so a fission PB vaporizes 1/10 millionth of Planet.

A Singularity PB obliterates 81 tiles (1.81 * 10^7 km^2, or 1/40th of Planet's surface) and vaporizes 1 + 9 + 25 + 49 = 84 km-tiles of rock, for 9.41 * 10^19 kg, about 1 part in one hundred thousand of Planet's mass.

	25-06-2005 22:02									#20
	Got spare money?

Once Yang dropped a PB on my beautiful capitol city Morgan Industries, while I was doing my best to stay peaceful the whole game (while supplying my friend with units and tech to fight my wars for me)

I went over the edge, and decimated all his cities with nervegas. YOU DONT TOUCH MY CITIES!

	25-06-2005 22:38									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Chaos Theory Have you been gassing my AIs?!

Not yet, but Yang is starting to try my patience, what with his continually infiltrating AAA cruisers into my crawlered tidal harness parks!

However, I may have to PB a few AI bases pretty soon - yang is jumping way out into the Power Graph lead. I wonder how you managed that, CT...


I'll see about getting those saves off to you tonight, along with an explaination of my approach, how things are going, etc.....


D

	25-06-2005 22:39									#22
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

the russians once had the schematics for a H-bomb that would have been strong enough to wipe out most of the US during the cold war didnt they ? or am i imagining again ... sure i heard something like that in a documentary

see straybow, a fission PB doesn't exactly destroy that much as chaos has shown

	25-06-2005 22:41									#23
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quote: Oh, and the feeble forces of the Hive has always been a walkover

quote: However, I may have to PB a few AI bases pretty soon - yang is jumping way out into the Power Graph lead. I wonder how you managed that, CT...

Go Yang !!

	25-06-2005 22:48									#24
	Tired of ads?

I generally use PB's when someone is using ICS too much to my liking...

makes a nice hole in their one-base-per-tile layout

	26-06-2005 09:31									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Lazerus the russians once had the schematics for a H-bomb that would have been strong enough to wipe out most of the US during the cold war didnt they ? or am i imagining again ... sure i heard something like that in a documentary see straybow, a fission PB doesn't exactly destroy that much as chaos has shown

Quite interesting, actually...during the Manhattan project, the idea of the H bomb was actually introduced, but never used until much later when the threat of the whole atmosphere combusting become relevant...

I'm not 100% sure, but the bombs you may be referring to might have been in the Cuban Missile Crisis, as most of the missiles IIRC could easily have targeted Washington D.C. and still destroy Chicago...

	26-06-2005 16:11									#26
	Got spare money?

The apparent strength of them IIRC was something strong enough to wipe out 1/5 of the planet and as such they really were the ultimate MAD because your own weapon would end up destroying you with the backlash aswell, so Stalin decided (he had a soft heart lol) not to build one.



Franky - 2400 years of sanctions by 2178 using staples alone in current PBEM, and it's time to kick in rather alot of nerve gas units to the front line in my war against santi, whos got something like 100 units still, so thats 100 * 30 (possibly rising) years of sanctions to come The Chairmans being a right mean b*****d this game

On the note of atrocities, staples causes no eco damage but gas does, right ? ... might have to use carefully

	26-06-2005 16:52									#27
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The Chairman being afraid of Planet?

	26-06-2005 17:08									#28
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Nah, just the sea, once i get super formers pumped out then i'll try drowning everyone else for a laugh

	26-06-2005 19:14									#29
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Er... I don't think you need formers - just push your mineral production way up.

	26-06-2005 20:14									#30
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yeah, but he'll probably use those formers to make sure the Hive doesn't drown, right ?