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Drakan
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Málaga, Spain
Jun 2004
time: 06:21
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HOW TO WIN ON DEITY BUILDER-STYLE, STEP-BY-STEP.
This article is thought for C3C v 1.22
This article is devised to help deity Noobs or deity wannabes to win confidently on this level as builders. I take for granted you already know basic concepts such as settler-factories, REXing, Prebuilds, trading reputation, AI attitude, Golden Age etc … if you don’t, look them up in the strategy articles section or in the War Academy at CFC.
On Deity the AI has a series of “play balancing” bonuses from the start, such as:
- They start with an extra settler (their biggest advantage IMHO)
- with 8 defensive units
- with 4 offensive units
- two workers
- they have a discount of 40% building rate over the human player.
- two-turn anarchy
- additional free support per city
- AI-AI trade bonus of 170
Is it humanly possible to overcome these bonuses ? Sure it is. The AI remains as dum no matter the difficulty level.
Winning as a Warmonger on Deity is a more daunting task and requires a player to be very skilled and know all the nooks and crannies of the game inside-out. So we’ll leave that type of play style to them.
However, winning Deity focusing as a builder is very feasable and only a matter of practice. Anyone can attain it. I’ll explain you how:
I. Victory type sought: UNs vote or SS victory.
II. The world settings:
1. You’ll choose huge pangaea (not archipiélago) worlds with 60% water (the minimum). (The larger the world the more you'll profit from it being a builder player)
2. No barbarians/ no huts to pop. (benefits more the AI than you)
3. AI agressiveness to the maximum (profit becoming a war scavenger)
4. 15 randomly generated AI civs. (the more the merrier)
5. Accelerated production off.
6. Random seed preserved.
7. All victory conditions enabled (except the Wonder Victory)
III. Picking the right civ:
The civ must be chosen carefully.
A. TRAITS:
I would advise for it to have the agricultural trait . This trait is the most powerful in C3C much as the industrious was back in PtW. Growth is –almost- everything, as highlighted in many articles.
As a second trait you will want it to be either: scientific, commercial or industrious.
You are not interested in playing an expansionist civ because it’s a pangaea world, you’re bound to meet them anyway sending your warriors as scouts. Plus there are no huts to pop which always seem to be more helpful for the AI. This trait is only useful during the REXing phase and you’re looking for a trait that’ll be useful through out the whole game.
You are not interested in a seafaring civ because this is not an archipiélago map, it’s pangaea we are talking of. Forget the Lighthouse.
You are not interested in the religious trait because you are only going to change governments once in the game: from despotism to republic. Plus you are not aiming for a culture victory with this strat. A cultural vic on deity is more difficult and isn't the point of this article.
This is a builder-style game, so obviously the military trait won't be suitable. Perhaps back in PtW when GMLs could rush GWs I would've changed my mind. But in C3C only SGLs can rush GWs and it's the scientific trait that'll be useful.
You want to be scientific: because you may build cheap libraries and above all you'll want your free tech when entering a new era so you can shop it around. You even have a 5% chance of spawning a SGL being the first to discover a tech. Useful trait all game round, probably the best second trait for this strat besides agri.
You want to be commercial: because at Deity you’ll need all the gold you can to trade. It’s useful through-out all the game.
You may want to be industrious: to build things at a faster rate. Again, a useful trait all game through.
Ideal civs for this builder strat:
Sumerians, Mayans, Iroquois, Netherlands, Greeks(*) and any other agri civ.
(*)= o.k. they are not agri but they are good to play with. They’ll prove an additional challenge.
B. For it’s UUs:
On Emperor or below you’re probably more interested in an offensive unit whereas in deity a defensive one is more suitable (from a builder standpoint). The very cheap and early enkidu warrior, the swiss-mercenary, the greek hoplite all suit their purpose, being the MW the exception as a fast offensive UU.
However, I must point out that the AI rates you military according to your offensive power. So the AI will rate more highly two warriors with a combined attack of 2 (one each) than a regular spearman with attack 1. So a builder player should really be building offensive units and not deffensive ones so as to keep the aggressive AI at bay. That’s why your military adviser says you are weak in comparison to other civs because it doesn’t count as much your huge defensive army, amongst other issues.
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Step-by-step guide to win on Deity builder-style:
1. In the Ancient Age you’ll build two or three warriors as scouts to explore the map and meet other civs. You may want to build two canoes or galleys to go on exploring on opposite directions as well (less advisable). You want to meet as much civs as possible for once you have the GL built.
2. You’ll build a granary in your capital. Your capital will act as a settler factory. Starting as an agri civ you’ll start on a river and next to some food bonus (wheat, sugar, banana, cows). If you happen to start on a floodplain it may be not necessary to build a granary in that city. You’ll want two or three cities with granaries.
3. You must start to REX asap. You’ll build warriors (no spearmen), workers and settlers. You ought to have two workers for every city you have on average. You will not escort your settlers. It doesn’t matter If some cities are ungarrisoned. The AI is also busy expanding rapidly and covering all the land still available. Pump out those settlers !!
4. You ought to have between 8-11 cities once the REXing phase is over. It’s ok if you can’t build the FP, no sweat. Even if you build it in the Industrial Age after some war you can still win. You can win this game with ten cities. Don't worry if your city tiles are overlapping with one another, it's only normal at this level of gameplay. Forget the idea of having a 21 radii tile city perfectly used and no overlapping; that only spells for disaster at Deity. Get used to living in cramped quarters. Real estate is overpriced !.
5. Being the AI at its most aggressive setting frequent wars will be unleashed. You just make sure to stay out of them and have settlers ready for when the time comes to fill in the gaps of razed cities. You are taking advantage of the AI way of acting doing the opposite and cashing in on it whether it be wars, derided techs etc…
6. On your best/most productive city, normally the capital where the palace is, you’ll mine most tiles, if you have a cow that’d be great. Start roading the food bonus tile, then mine it, then move to the river tiles to get that extra gold bonus the sooner the better. Whip settlers if required.
7. You’ll trace a bee-line to Literature. Your wonder city should reach size 10 at least 8 turns before you discover Literature and size 12 when building it. You cannot do a prebuild in the capital city (masonry required) and it’s not required either, so don’t worry use as a prebuild a temple or whatever. Join workers to the wonder city if necessary to bring it to size 12 asap.
8. Once you discover Literature put the science slider to zero and have it like that until you learn Education.
9. You will build the Great Library. It takes some practice to do it, so be sure you build it. Don’t conquer it, this is a builder-style game. You’ll do the bashing later on in the game, believe me. This is the only Ancient Age wonder you’ll waste your precious time and resources in. It's well-worth it.
10. You’ll trade your way through to Writing once the techs start pouring in. You’ll build embassies with ALL civs, with your immediate neighbours first. You’ll sign RoP with ALL of them. You give techs, gold, luxuries whatever is reasonably necessary in exchange. You do this to avoid unwanted wars. The AI will not attack you, normally, with RoP signed providing you keep up your good reputation and stay true to your deals. If you can trade workers from other civs, just do it, the earlier on you do it the more they’ll get slowed down in building infrastructure and it'll hurt them, specially if they have the industrialised trait.
11. You will trade techs for lump sum or gpt If you can. Don’t forget to haggle always. GPT is your aim so as to make them broke and slow their fast-paced research rate. The more gold they trade you, the less they'll have for research. It will be YOU who will be doing all the research from the early Middle Ages onwards and cashing on it.
12. You will acquire all the luxuries you can. Being pangaea you don’t have to wait until Navigation to get all of them, from the early Middle Ages you ought to have access to all of them. Your luxury slider should be at zero typically all along the game, except in the initial REXing phase and in the odd war or so. Build granaries, libraries, marketplaces ...
13. You must change governments to Republic as soon as it is available and stick to it untill you win the game.
14. You musn’t start any wars untill you have Military Tradition. You will give into all AI demands, be it gold, maps or techs. Yeah, yeah it’s crap but learn how to kneel first.
15. In the Middle Ages trade your free tech around if you're scientific (it will normally be Feudalism; gift in, if neccessary, other scientific AIs into the new era so as to trade for their free techs). It's difficult to stop the wonder cascade in the Middle Ages, forget it. Once you learn Education, and when the GL becomes obsolete, you will trigger your Golden Age with your UU the very next turn If possible. I always choose some close feable neighbour. You will have amassed by now at least twenty horses which you’ll upgrade to cavalry. This is a defensive war, don’t play offensive. You’ll make that other civ declare war on you making them mad and asking them to withdraw their troops from your land. Be sure your RoP agreement has finished with that target civ beforehand, don’t renew it planning for your GA-war. You will sign a military alliance (MA) with all civs against your targeted foe. You cannot risk a war with more than one civ. Be sure to spawn some GLM so as to start the Military Academy. You may use later the Armies as prebuilds or as a deterrent to other aggressive civs. Don’t sign peace until twenty turns have gone by so as not to get a reputation hit with the other civs you've signed the MA. Remember you are aiming for a diplo win or SS, your reputation should remain flawless until the UNs vote if you choose this victory type.
16. Use your GA to build banks (universities should be rushed if you are scientific), factories etc… don’t waste your time building military units, you’ll have plenty of time for that later on. Using your GA and combining it with all the gold you will have saved up with your zero research due to the GL will enable you to research at a maximum rate now of 90-100%. I advise reading DaveMcW's article on AI's Favorite Techs to learn what monopoly techs you should be researching and trading for in your game.
17. You ought to have saved a fair amount of gold already. Start researching at the max possible (90-100%) techs that the AI will disregard first in the Middle Ages such as in the top end of the tech-tree: Monotheism, Banking, Economy. You may even start a prebuild on Adam Smith’s. Trade these monopoly techs to all and be sure you get gpt. You want to make them broke. With all the gold you’ve saved up during the effects of the GL and with the added boost of your GA you ought to be racing ahead technologically. Make sure they learn Banking asap (even gifting it to ALL AIs) so they build banks asap and have all their gold funneled to you through smart trading of techs. By the end of the Middle Ages you ought to have 10.000 gold.
18. In the Industrial Age your free tech will normally be Nationalism. Gift in, if neccessary, other scientific AIs into the new era so as to trade for their free techs. Go for Steam Power, Industrialisation, Medicine, Sanitation (build or rush hospitals in every city, you are agri don’t forget it), Electricity, Scientific Method. You’ll have a prebuild on ToE. Build it and choose as your two free techs Atomic Theory and Electronics. You’ll also have a prebuild for Hoovers Dam. You may not have realised it yet, but the game is pretty much over now at this stage once you build this Great Wonder. Make sure they learn Corporation asap (even gifting it to all AIs) so they can all build Stock Exchanges asap and have all their gold funneled to you through smart trading of techs. You’ll start a well-timed prebuild aiming for the United Nations. Trade all these techs around assuring you will complete the great wonders. You might be tempted to steal techs once you trade for Espionage, but If you are using this builder-strategy properly there's just no need to resort to stealing techs; besides, it will be you whose the most technologically advanced civ in the game so there'll be hardly any techs at all to steal anyways ! You ought to have now around 20.000 gold at the end of the Industrial Age. It’s fairly normal to strike deals for up to as much as 320 gpt. Be careful, the AI might go broke (specially if it’s a Warmonger civ such as the Zulus or Aztecs) and declare you war to stop paying all together. You ought to be raking in approx 2.000 gpt from your cities and anywhere between 1.000 and 2.000 gpt from the AI civs in your game. Your science rate will be at 90-100% and your luxury slider at zero (if you have 8 luxs) or 10%. You can easily change your game from builder to warmonger at this stage If you wish but you'll risk losing the UNs vote.
19. You enter the Modern Age. Very rarely do they give you Computers as your free tech being scientific. It will normally be either Ecology, Fission or Rocketry. Gift a scientific civ into the Modern Age if neccesary so as to trade their free tech. Shop it around with all the others. You must build the UNs. Research the lower end of the tech tree: Computers (have a prebuild for SETI), Miniaturisation (prebuild for Internet), then go for whatever suits you. Steal techs safely for 5.500 gold. The AIs will pay dearly in such a huge map for a Modern Age tech. I’ve been paid as much as 47.500 gold for Computers lump sum (it has a wonder associated to it). Be sure you haven’t finished the wonder when you shop it around because that’ll diminish its face value. Avoid at all costs the Wonder Cascade of Manhattan Proyect, SETI, UN, Internet. Delay if neccesary by one turn the trade so as to be sure they don’t build the wonder before you. A human player should have no trouble building all Industrial and Modern Age wonders with the help of well-timed prebuilds at Deity.
20. Choose between an SS or Diplomatic victory. Typically, you ought to finish the game around the XIV-XV centuries for a diplo win and XVI or later for a SS victory in a huge pangaea deity map. You should end up with, at least, 40.000 gold stashed in your bank account (even If you've been cash-rushing units and improvements). It's Builder Power  !
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Takes you around 25-40 hours to complete.
Main point is that you do tech-surf all the time and then cash in on it:
a. Build GL: research to zero and stash gold for future research at a loss if necessary (you will have saved up money for this moment).
b. GL expired. Triger your GA straight away that same turn in Republic so as to continue with you competitive advantage granted by the GL. Build banks, universities and Adam Smith. Put research slab at a maximum , even at loss, you´ll have money saved up for this.
c. Tech bartering all the time with the other civs . Very few wars and only for luxuries, strategical resources and to trigger your GA. Researched techs derided by othr AI's civs. Raking in massive amounts of gold from AI civs. Waited 20 turns until cashflow was liberated to strike a new deal for another tech. Didn't trade If they had no gpt to offer or luxuries.
d. Fueled wars between AI civs by signing a military alliance against my foe/s. Build Hoover Dam.
e. End up with 40-80 cities. Flawless reputation and polite attitude by almost everyone except those AIs you fought, of course.
The point was to always surge ahead techwise and sell them the monopoly techs I discovered hampering their own research by means of signing huge gpt deals. The GL gives you a competitive advantage over the AI for a while. When the GL expires you trigger your GA asap so as to capitalise on that gap or turn-advantage granted by the GL, thus gripping on to it and even boosting your competitive edge over the AI thouroughout the rest of the game. It's like two successive launch pads or rocket boosts, GL first and then GA, you're using, one right after the other.
The GL acts as a "sort of" Golden Age really when you put the science slider to zero. You get all the cash plus all the techs (no double shield output however). So the bottomline is that it's as If you were using two Golden Ages one right after the other, first the GL and when it becomes obsolete with Education you trigger your GA that same turn with your UU. So you are actually playing as If you had two consecutive Golden Ages, like having two rocket boosts, you burn the first one and only then use the second one, GL first and then your GA, so as to overcome Deity's dire AIs bonuses.
It's a sort of broker strategy (War Academy) coupled in with triggering you GA at the right time.
R.L.N.
AKA Drakan
Sample DEITY game Gilgamesh of Sumeria: American version C3C v 1.22
Initial save:
http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php...eity24000BC.SAV
Ancient Age (turn before completing the GL) 590 B.C.:
http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php...deity2590BC.SAV
Early Middle Ages 50 A.D.:
http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php...hdeity250AD.SAV
Industrial Age (with Golden Age triggered by UU) 870 A.D.:
http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php...deity2870AD.SAV
Modern Age (turn before diplo victory, prior vote was inconclusive) 1465 A.D.:
http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php...ctory1465AD.SAV
Sample SID game Builder-style: American version C3C v 1.22 just scroll downwards a few posts for the storyline and the saves ...
Last edited by Drakan on 31-08-2005 at 13:41
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inca911
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St. Paul, MN
Jan 2000
time: 05:21
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A few comments:
I've had ROP with other AI civs, and they still elected to attack. In my current game, it was the Mongols and my military was deemed weak in comparison via F3 (something I try to avoid in successful builder games). I had quickly dropped Settlers into the gaps on the Mongol/French continent created by our successful destruction of the Indians (gaining wines and gems). I had MPP with France (the only other civ still left) and the Mongols attacked anyway. My rep with them has been gracious most of the time, and was polite at a minimum right before the attack. This is my Civ3 experience (not C3C).
Your strategy hinges completely on the Great Library. Not that that's bad, just a lot to assume and count on. Rather than "builder-style", I'd call this approach "GreatLibrary-style."
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Drakan
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Málaga, Spain
Jun 2004
time: 06:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Tattila the Hun
40.000 gold at the end? Wouldn't that be better used rushing stuff? |
I rushed things all game through. Otherwise I would have easily had more than 100k-150k gold.
I rushed universities, Armies, factories, stock exchanges, commercial docks and specially units. I was rushing between 10-15 tanks every two turns at an average price of 250 gold per unit. That's roughly 1.600 gold spent every turn only in rushing tanks, Armies were 1.300 gold after the second turn IIRC. That's BIG money if you've been rush-building all sort of stuff for over a hundred turns ....
Other civs were paying me 2000 gpt plus I was making an additional 2100 gold from city income. And on top of it I striked nice tech deals for lump gold; as an example the Greeks paid me 47.500 gold for Computers ... the SETI wasn't built yet, they had like 53.000 gold just before our deal, it's in the saves attached)
I had only discovered tanks a few turns back (10-12) before I won.
Last edited by Drakan on 04-07-2005 at 19:39
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Drakan
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Málaga, Spain
Jun 2004
time: 06:21
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quote:
Originally posted by inca911
A few comments:
Your strategy hinges completely on the Great Library. Not that that's bad, just a lot to assume and count on. Rather than "builder-style", I'd call this approach "GreatLibrary-style." |
Yes it totally hinges on the GL, which I take as my first "Golden Age".
But this strat is devised for Deity nOObs, as the first paragraph of the article states:
This article is devised to help deity Noobs or deity wannabes to win confidently on this level as builders
At times I follow it at times I don't. In more advanced gameplay, why build it at all ? Just capture the GL. But then the game wouldn't be really builder style but more of a warmonger really.
To a greater or lesser extent most players, not all, rely on the GL at Deity and Sid to catch up on techs. A player whose already reached this level of gameplay ain't using the GL as a crutch as say a regent player would.
Its a strategy that can easily be turned round to a warmonger approach. By the late industrial ages none of the 15 civs (well maybe only 12 were left by then) were a military match to my mighty 12 Armies and 90 tanks with the economical power to churn out 15 tanks every two turns. I could easily cut them off their oil supplies (no lethal bombers or tanks) and conquest the mightiest of them, the Aztecs, which in fact, I was in the midst of doing when the UNs vote popped up in 1470 AD and I won. I could have continued to invade the mightiest AI civ militarily If I'd wanted being a "builder". I reckon i could've taken the whole continent If I'd care for. You have the save just before the UNs vote, you can try ignoring the vote and continue the game conquering the pangaea continent If you please.
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Drakan
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Málaga, Spain
Jun 2004
time: 06:21
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Builder-Style Reloaded: SID level; same cool builder strategy, well errm -almost-, same dum AI, same crazy Spaniard. Part I.
After posting this Deity builder strategy in the Spanish forum I promised I would try it for Sid  seeming how wonderfully easy it worked on Deity every time.
I was also encouraged with a post from DaveMcW who wrote that this strategy could be used in Sid albeit changing the map type from Pangaea over to archipiélago and from the scientific trait to the seafaring one.
On Sid the AI has a series of “play balancing” bonuses from the start, such as:
- They start with 2 extra settlers (their biggest advantage IMHO)
- with 12 defensive units
- with 6 offensive units
- 4 workers
- they have a discount of 60% building rate over the human player.
- one-turn anarchy (which it's as If they all had the religious trait).
- additional free support per city
- AI-AI trade bonus of 200
Stubborn as I am, I did try -twice- on a huge pangaea with 15 random civs in Sid but after half an hour I just couldn't follow their tech/building pace. So I gave up with huge pangaea maps, archipiélago it is then. 
So I heeded his advice, which was after all the logical map setting for this difficulty level followed by almost all Sid players (which are all crazy incidentally in case you hadn't noticed already).
An archipiélago map would slow the crazy sid tech pace and would delay contacts between the AIs. So these are the saves posted from my first Sid game ever as proud William of the Dutch.
The Dutch were an obvious choice for an archipiélago map (seafaring trait) and are also agricultural (great) and have an excellent UU which is the Swiss Mercenary which only costs 30 shields, defends with 4 and comes really early in the Middle Ages with Feudalism just perfect timing to trigger a nice GA. Compared to the musketman which comes with Gunpowder (so you must have saltpetre) and costs twice as much, 60 shields, it was an all too easy choice. Perhaps the agricultural trait isn't as useful in this map setting as say in a pangaea, and it would've been wiser perhaps to choose the scientific trait instead (Byzantines ?) to keep up with my freebie tech in the coming of the new ages. Nah, the Dutch will pull off this one nicely.
The map I chose was:
- Huge archipiélago, 80% water
- With 15 randomly generated AI civs.
- No barbarians/no huts, as posted in my deity builder strategy.
- AI agressiveness to the maximum.
- Random seed on
- AP off.
- All victory conditions enabled (except the Wonder Victory which isn't really a victory type but more a game-ending condition)
No cherry picking, no deck stacking.
With the Dutch I start with Alphabet so the bee-line to Literature (GL) was all that easier than say with the Sumerians in my Deity game. Plus I was scared, I must admit, so I didn't want to take any chances at all, I'm a Sid nOOb after all.
The first map the CPU generated was the one I chose. It showed a river, hills (high shield output) and above all it had spices, four that I could see. I suspected I was in an island and that I was going to have a monopoly on a luxury which would come very handy indeed to trade with the other AIs for RoP or whatever.
As a builder game the victory type sought will be: UNs vote or SS victory. Which doesn't mean I won't do my fare deal of warmongering in between (just so I don't doze off and pour my coke over my CPU )
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Sid Storyline, Part I: William of The Dutch.
I founded Amsterdam in the starting location at 4000 B.C. After sending two warriors as scouts (I can also use my seven king units for that, which have two move points) I realized there was a better spot nine tiles away which had floodplains AND one cattle !! That was THE place for my palace. So I sent a settler, disbanded Amsterdam (tears) and founded The Hague on the coast adjacent to the cattle and floodplain tiles, the home of the future GL.
I figured that from The Hague I would be able to create a settler-factory and colonise my small island asap; better than the spot where I founded Amsterdam initially. I sent suicide curraghs all over the place to make contact with other AI civs so the techs poured in the GL when it was finally completed. Established embassies with all AI civs to improve the AI attitude and signed RoP with all of them.
I started getting jittery when I saw portuguese curraghs and then, worse of all, russian galleys with settlers colonising all the small islands nearby (they built The Great Lighthouse). I was becoming increasingly anxious. But eventually I settled my home island with 14 overlapping cities. 
The Celts finished the SoZ, uh-oh ! Wouldn't want THEM as neighbours in a Sid game !
I built the GL in 30 A.D. Compared to my sumerian Deity game in which I built it in 590 B.C. the tech pace of this game was going to be slow, very s-l-o-w 
Only a few techs poured in the next turn. Archipiélago maps do take their tolls on the tech pace.
I made my second palace jump over to Maastricht in 400 A.D. So that's three cities that held my palace in this sid game, I'd never done such a stupid thing, but I had a plan on the back of my mind.
Just before learning Education I gifted The Hague (with the GL in it) to the most feeble nearby civ I found, the Portuguese with 5 cities now, hardly a fledgling empire. I had brought down The Hague from size 12 to size 3 or 4 just before gifting it building workers. Thank you SirPleb for this neat trick. I surrounded The Hague with my units with a signed RoP, even with three galleys in the coastal tiles. No one was going to mess up with the Portuguese, at least before I did, anyways. When I captured it back it would trigger my "third" GA.
I would build units until I had my first war with the Portuguese. The Hague flipped back to me twice and both times I had to rebuff the rebels.
I concentrated in expanding to other islands. I filled my galleys with settlers. The Celts were the runaway civ with 40 cities already in 1000 A.D. they had killed the Russians and Hittites in their island (the largest in this game, more like a continent) with the help of the SoZ and the excellent AC units. I had like 26-29 cities. 14 in my home island and the rest were cities in small islands or sprawled in other bigger inhabitated islands.
The Celts declared war on me. This took me by surprise, I felt flummoxed. We had a RoP, they were gratious towards me, they referred to me as their "friends"my rep was flawless etc...curse them ! They had sent a galley and a lone longbow to attack one of my cities. When the AI lands an offensive unit from a boat right beside one of your cities that spells for war on the intraturn. So I did the only thing that I could: ask for a loan. I got their 3.000 gold and promised to pay it in twenty turns -he he-. Next turn they declared war and I got no rep hit for it. I Immediately signed a MA with all the AIs against the Celts  using the Celt's very own gold (except with the Japanase which I happened to have forgotten to sign them in out of sheer laziness and they joined the Celts the very next turn). The whole world was in war now with the Celts.
I had to abandon a medium sized island right beside the Celts which had iron and saltpetre. I had my UUs guarding the three cities and no way was I gonna trigger my GA offtime against the Celts. So I rushed two galleys, filled them with a worker and three Swiss Mercenaries, sold off the most expensive improvements in the cities, set all the citizens to taxmen and abandoned the small island. I'll be back ! 
Years went by and I sued for peace after the twenty turns of MA had gone by. The Celts kept fighting everyone for ages to come. So hardly surprising they are now at a Fascism so their tech pace has grinded to a halt. So I had fueled wars amongst all the AIs and I had managed to neutralise the dreaded Celt sid powerhouse.
But someone had to take over the leading Sid AI role after the Celts had tumbled off the top-end ladder and the task was beared upon ... The Vikings. They are the second AI to watch after crushing the innocent Spaniards (sniff) and nearly killing off the Zulus. I vowed revenge upon the Vikings in a muffle on behalf of my dear Queen Isabella. I settled on all the razed cities planning ahead for this moment. The settlers where already there, on the spot, just waiting for the spanish and zulu cities to be razed. That allowed me gems and incense. The Vikings overtook the Celts by about 5 techs I guess in the Industrial Ages.
The tech pace was unbearably slow, so muchs so, that in 1430 A.D. I gifted all AIs with all the techs up to Gunpowder to have them up to date and to help decrease the burden of research on the Celts and, specially, the Vikings. The tech speed was just ... 
After watching intensely every tile in the Celts territory I found that they had one tile with railroads. The vikings already had plenty. That meant that two civs knew already the secrets of Steampower. It was time to pay a visit to Henry of the Portuguese and talk business.
Naturally Henry was rather adamant in giving me back The Hague. So I declared war on him in 1470 A.D. btw that was the year I won on my Sumerian deity game the UNs vote, this Sid game was going to take looooong. 
I had made sure we had no RoP at the time of declaring and that no units of my wre trespassing his territory, no trades of luxuries or anything. Portugal lay to the north of Netherlands, my home island. I had sent 18 galleys with 36 Swiss Mercenaries and perched them atop a mountain on the portuguese island, just outside the cultural boundaries of the Portuguese, waiting ... two galleys were sunk by Privateers (viking). The (viking) privateers sunk a further three galleys loaded with two settlers each. I also lost galleys loaded with settlers in ocean tyles to the elements. All in all I was lucky being a seafarer civ. The Hague (GL) fell in 1.475 A.D.
The galleys returned to fetch my 81 knights. I had to travel back and foth thrice. The first time to pick up the pikes, the second and third to transport the knights and a settler.
I created a diversion for the Portuguese. Landed my 32 swiss pikes on the northern side of the portuguese island luring their army to come and get me, let two turns go by and then landed 48 knights and a settler on the southern part of their island on the tile which had one of their two horsies and pillaged it the next turn. Henry had moved 4 of his seven king units to the south expecting me to attack from the north with the pikes. Big mistake. My 48 knights swiftly took charge of his 4 king units to the south and eight or so pikeman which were in garrison mode. Only three Henrys to go.
All the tech secrets (a total of 15 techs IIRC) popped into the GL at The Hague after capturing it. That called for a massive upgrade of my knights, safe the 5 elite ones, of course. 40 something knights were upgraded to cavalry on the spot in Portugal.
Back home, I sent the remaining 30 knights, which were now upgraded to cavalry, with my ever loyal fleet of galleys. So that left my army with a total of approx IIRC 70 cavalry, 5 knights (because elite), 70 swiss mercenaries, six riflemen, and 23 upgraded galleys to galleons and seven -very- mean and ambitious (and rather ambigous, I might add  ) King William units.
In 1500 A.D. my first MGL, Abel Tasman, was spawned with the attack of my first elite cavalry to a regular portuguese pikeman, that was plain dum luck, thanks RNG, The Portuguese were finished off in 1510 A.D. only eight turns after we started our war. I settled their island. Only razed two cities, the last one holding the last king unit was autorazed. Don't want to raze much because I want to win with a UNs vote/ or SS vic, whatever. I'm meant to be a "builder" for goodness sake. Aw well wth ...
I am now in my ninth turn of my GA, 1510 A.D. raking in 700 gpt from my cities and a further 200 gpt from the AIs making a grand total of 900 gpt in the midst of my GA  . I'm building banks and universities in my core cities in this GA. I have eleven turns until it finishes. I disbanded Delft in my home island which was size 5 and had no improvements. That left me down from 14 to 13 cities in my home island. Delft's only purpose had already been fulfilled: to build the fleet of loyal galleys.
I needed lebensraum for the city that held my FP, Harlingen, which was now busy building my Military Academy while my capital, Maastricht, built the HE. I had sixty something cavalry units, 70 swiss mercenary and seven riflemen. No trebuchets or cannons. No artillery whatsoever. Mistake ? 
When I finish building universities I'll switch to Builder mode, rush a factory and prebuild for ToE and hopefully win this game builder style -ehem-. But....on the meantime I think that cute Byzantine empire with eight size-12 cities is looking verrry compelling  almost becoming me welcome and wait, lo and behold, look at the gullible Japanese further away with only five cities. Cough, yeah I'll switch to builder mode -err- -umm- sometime, maybe later, perhaps, I promise, now I want some fun ! I'm so spoilt. 
11-07-05 update
I only had one iron source next to my FP, so I unhooked and rehooked it at the beginning of every turn with nine workers and a swiss mercenary to pillage it at the end of every single turn until I gained access to a second iron source in Byzantium. I just couldn't afford to deplete my only iron source and just couldn't afford to pay what the AIs asked for.
Byzancium lay to the north east of Netherlands and to the east of Portugal. I would use Portugal as my base of operations to start the amphibious assault. The byzantine cities were -almost- all size 12. They knew Gunpowder, which I myself had giften them and everyone else btw, and had saltpetre, unlike me, which I had to trade for with the Arabs.
The war started in 1540 A.D. Similar scheme to that employed with Portugal: I sent 26 galleons with 16 rifleman, a further 28 swiss mercenaries, 48 veteran cavalry, four settlers and a three cavalry Army for cover. There was a nice hill tile adjacent to Constantinople; it was there that I intended to make landfall.
Continued Sid storyline Parts II and III in posts below:
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THE SID SAVES as proud William the Dutch:
SAMPLE SID GAME: American version C3C v 1.22
Initial save 4.000 B.C. promises to be a spicy game (couldn't resist the pun ):
http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php...msid14000BC.SAV
ANCIENT AGES: turn before completing the GL in 30 A.D. :
http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php...msid1GL30AD.SAV
Ancient Ages: third palace jump over to Maastricht in 440 A.D. :
http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php...cejump440AD.SAV
Ancient Ages: gifting of The Hague to the Portuguese in 510 A.D. :
http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php...orgift510AD.SAV
MEDIEVAL AGES: War with the Portuguese: second turn GA. Recapturing The Hague (GL) in 1475 A.D. :
http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php...vator1475AD.SAV
1500 A.D. 7th turn of my GA. My first MGL, Abel Tasman, is spawned against the Portuguese:
http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php...A-GML1500AD.SAV
INDUSTRIAL AGES: 1.510 A.D. 9th turn into my GA, end of war with the Portuguese. Byzantines and Japanese are up next ?
http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php...rn9GA1510AD.SAV
Start war with the Byzantines in 1540 A.D. 15th turn GA
http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php...neWar1540AD.SAV
Start war with the Japanese 1655 A.D.
http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php...anese1655AD.SAV
SGL Cristiaan Huygens is spawned in 1750 A.D. after researching the derided tech of Sanitation:
http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php...awned1750AD.SAV
Ranked in the F11 screen as the number one approval rate civ in 1772 A.D. :
http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php...erone1772AD.SAV
Vikings start building the UNs in 1.804 A.D. Time is running out for me ...
http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php...d1UNs1804AD.SAV
1822 A.D. sitting pretty at the UNs waiting to be appointed its chairman ... and waiting.... and waiting....
http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php...svote1822AD.SAV
1866 A.D. the turn before the war with the Vikings. My golden years stealing techs and raking in 1.600 gpt.
http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php...msid11866AD.SAV
1868 A.D. After getting caught tech stealing the Vikings declared war on me. Watch out for those viking SoD approaching my cities !
http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php...rewar1868AD.SAV
MODERN AGES: 1884 A.D. I now master Computers with my eyes on Miniaturisation and Internet.
http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php...msid11884AD.SAV
End of war with the Vikings 1910 A.D.
http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php...kings1910AD.SAV
Two turns before capturing the UNs at Trondheim 1959 A.D.
http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php...dheim1959AD.SAV
Capturing Trondheim in 1961 A.D.
http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php...msid11961AD.SAV
Turn of diplomatic victory 1962 A.D.
http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php...ctory1962AD.SAV
--- THE END ---
Drakan
Last edited by Drakan on 26-07-2005 at 13:36
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Drakan
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Málaga, Spain
Jun 2004
time: 06:21
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Continued Sid storyline ... II
After scouting briefly to the north it soon became apparent that due to the ongoing war with the Celts, the Byzantines had almost every single tile which was either a hilltop or a mountain covered with at least five units. No chance of obtaining a defensive bonus landing on the northern part of their island.
So I resorted to use the 3-cavalry Army to protect the assault task force and secure the beachhead knowing well that the AI doesn’t attack Armies on open ground (at least not until they have artillery and/or lethal bombers, that is). So I chose a small hill-top right beside Constantinople to land an Army for cover, 48 cavalry and 20-28 swiss pikes which I upgraded later. The (celtic) privateers to the north had taken their toll on my unescorted scouting galleon.
The Army would cover my SoD. I took Constantinople. Killed a lot of AI units. Only seven or so cavalry died. My military adviser rated me weak compared to the Byzantines. Their defenders were musketman.
In the ensuing byzantine war nine MGLs were spawned. 7 from attacking cavalry and 2 passively from defending rifleman which were by now almost all elite. I had to take all seven cities to conquer them. By 1615 A.D. the war had ended. I'd conquered Byzancium. The war would've finished earlier on had I been smart enough to pillage the byzantine saltpetre and iron tiles asap from making landfall with one of my 3-cavalry Armies. I founded four more cities on their island to ease the limit on my Armies so I could bring them up to eleven. The Armies were only uploaded with three cavalry (one elite* and two veterans) so I could transport them round in galleons despite having the Pentagon.
I set as my next target Japan.
------------------
Digression:
Why was I warmongering so much If this was meant to be a builder-style game ? Well first, out of sheer boredom, I must admit -gulp-, but I was also following a plan, really. In order to win a diplomatic vote at the UNs. you need either to:
1. Build the UNs
2. Control 25% of the land
3. Have 25% of the world population.
So If I could take my pop up to 25% or more from the 18% I already had, I would ensure myself, at best, a diplo victory despite having the Vikings the UNs built in Trondheim and, at worst, it would neutralize the UNs power because the Vikings wouldn't call for a vote If they knew I was going to win. The AI is not designed to win the game, it's designed to deprive you from winning, which is wholly different.
End of digression
--------------------
The Celts had changed to Democracy and although the Vikings were still in Democracy the tech pace was fast. The Vikings were going to complete the UNs before me. So the Vikings were going to be one of the potential candidates. My plan was to become the second candidate.
After retaking the GL in 1.475 A.D. from the Portuguese at The Hague I got all medieval techs and Communism, Steampower and Nationalism. Perhaps I should've waited longer for Industrialisation to trigger my GA and beat the Vikings to ToE which they eventually built. I had to trade for Espionage. I had a prebuild ready (the Pentagon) for the Intelligence Agency. From that moment onwards I started stealing techs safely with a regular spy (at 68% success chance) at a price of 4.400 gold from both Celts and Vikings following Oystein's article on Espionage.
After stealing Replaceable Parts I stopped stealing techs all together. I had my Artys and Infantry now. I started building Artys. I didn't want to trigger some unwanted war by failing an espionage attempt on the Vikings or Celts despite the 68% success chance (that's only an odd of 2/3 of success chance in a Republic or 1/3 working against you). If war was unleashed with the Vikings I would loose all my cities in his island to him and two luxuries (gems and spices). That would hurt my increased population plan for the UN designee vote, so it wasn't worth the risk. So I started saving all the gold at zero research and spending it rushing hospitals, granaries, harbours and food related improvements. I also modified tiles from mines to irrigation to get the pop spike going in my core cities.
However, I noticed that the AIs had ignored a dead-end tech as Sanitation  ! Being agricultural this was a must for me. Besides that, If I could place hospitals in all my core cities and negate that tech to the AI by not trading it I could bring my population up to well and above 25% of the world population and be one of the two -or three- potential candidates for the UNs vote. So I researched Sanitation and spawned a SGL in 1750, Cristiaan Huygens !! That was lucky. In my last twenty games or so I haven't spawned a sigle one. However It won't be in time to rush-build the UNs I'm afraid.
Japan was never going to vote for me because they had allied with the Celts earlier on the game thanks to my diplo MA blunder, so they could be conquered to prune the voting (Golden Bear  ). I needed a fair amount of land to hit the 25% population mark anyways.
In the year 1.655 A.D. I sent 15 galleons over from Byzancium to Japan, which lay to the east of Netherlands, loaded with 10 Armies, 10 rifleman (mostly elite) and 10 elite cavalry. I like number ten . I landed an Army, further south, at a choke point which united both parts of the japanese island, cutting off effectively the japanese reinforcements from the eastern side of their island. I landed my 9 Armies to the north-western side of their island and fell on Tokyo IIRC. In 1700 A.D. the war had ended. I had spawned my 11th GML. In the Military Academy I built the 12th Army which meant I had more than 48 cities under control in the XVIII. I had now under control 4 medium sized islands at the center of the map plus 4 other smaller ones and many cities sprawled all over the map. The Vikings killed off their zulu neighbours. The Vikings built Hoovers in ... Madrid !! 
After this, I had my doubts on whether I should invade the Iroquois or not, which were to the west of Greater Netherlands. The Iroquois, unlike the Portuguese, Byzantines and Japanese had five luxuries (dyes) and were trading them actively, so invading them could cause attitude problems with other AI trading partners which could hurt my UNs vote.
I had no doubts whatsoever that I could've conquered the Iroquois, the Americans, the Mongols, the Zulus and probably the English aswell. Not sure about the Arabs though and definately not the Celts and the Vikings.
The problem being that in doing so the game would stop being definately a builder's one (and it's rather tainted as it stands now) and that I would also leave the Celts and Vikings unchecked for too long proving disastrous perhaps (If they both change to demos and research ahead whilst I'm at still at war with everyone else).
While pondering all this, the Arabs sneaked attacked on me  on Portugal island taking two ungarrisoned cities with Ansars and so the Iroquois invasion was called off indefinately. I signed MA with both Celts and Scandinavians against the Arabs. Couldn't risk these two MA with the Arabs against me. The Celts were already at war with them, I had to pay through the nose with the Vikings. That brought the Celts again down from Dem to a Fascist government, he he. That would slower the tech pace yet again, buying me precious time to steal techs. I placed a spy with the Arabs and they had some nice massive army: over 100 ansars, over 100 MI, over 100 swordsman, over 200 pikes, over 100 musketman, over a 100 archers ... more than 800 units were waiting for me If I dared take their challenge. I didn't, I'm a builder at heart -cough- coward -cough-.
Peace followed and I MMd my cities for maximum growth. In 1772 A.D. the game ranked me in the F11 screen as the number one civ. In 1792 A.D. I was the civ that held the most population in the world.
I had successfully hooked/traded all 8 luxuries ages ago. I negated trading two luxuries to the Celts to keep their pop unhappy and remain in Fascism. I had four oil supplies and only one rubber in my home island. I had one coal, two saltpetre, two iron, five horsies and nine incense on my home island. I thought by mistake they were spices  I pillaged the rubber tile besides The Hague unless I wanted to upgrade my rifleman for just 30 gold. It was cheaper to upgrade the rifleman in a turn than rather have them building infantry and risk depletion of my only rubber source. The difference was only ten shields between rifleman (80 shds) and infantry (90 shds) so there was hardly any building time difference.
In 1804 A.D the Vikings which were researching under Communism at 30% science rate started building the UNs. Trondheim of size 12 (just the same as all the other AI cities which didn't have Sanitation except me) built the UNs in 1820 A.D. at 50 shields per turn in eight turns.
I was expecting to win the next turn in 1820 A.D. having 27% of the world's population when the vote was called, but the clever Vikings didn't call for it knowing all too well that I'd surely win because I had hardly autorazed three cities (the last portuguese, byzantine and japanese cities) and except for the Celts (which were gratious) and Arabs (were annoyed) the rest of the AIs would surely vote for me as the Vikings had been in war with almost everyone else and I had a been a good trading partner and had been "generous" towards them. Following the finds in Bamspeedy's article "AI attitude" I gifted 100 gold from time to time, every ten turns or so, to selected AIs throughout the whole game, specially Celts and Vikings.
Now I'm all dressed up and nowhere to go. I'm kinda stuck. I have 13.000 gold in my bank account. So I guess I'll have to resort to stealing techs safely once more every five turns ( I'm raking in 1350 gpt; 350 gpt from other civs and almost 2.000 gpt from my cities) and meanwhile wait every 11 turns for the elections to be held at the UNs.
I won't sell Sanitation, the Celts with more than 40 cities and being agricultural would surely overtake me as a potential second candidate to the UNs after the Vikings.
The Celts, the last time I checked on them with my spy at the Military Advisor screen had more than 800 infantry, 400 cavalry etc ... one heck of an army, sheesh.
Quoting Ision:
quote:
"The AI is stupid and remains so at Emp and above. BUT, the quantative advantage of the AI is so pronounced that it goes a very long way towards making up for the stupidity."
Monarch to Emperor: The Great Leap |
Out of the 16 civilizations which started this Sid game only eight remained: Iroquois, Americans, English, Celts, Vikings, Mongolia, Arabs and Netherlands.
Spanish -snif-, Hittites, Russians, Ottomans, Zulus, Portuguese, Byzantines and Japanese were eliminated.
Only one would win.
So it seems I'm going to have to win by heading for Alpha Centauri, oh well. The SGL might come handy after all. I'm half way through the Industrial Ages and the Vikings know at least Fission (UNs built) and Rocketry (they have TOWs) the Celts remain in the Industrial Ages. So I'm running behind on eleven techs (nine industrial, two modern ages) from the leading tech civ, the Vikings. Will I be able to make it on time ? If It takes five turns to steal a tech safely, that's 11*5= 55 turns to play catch up on Sid, sounds rather daunting to me. Although I do have 13.000 gold on hold which can make for two and a half safe tech steals reducing the turn-advantage of the AI to approx 42 turns only. On top of that I have to deal with a cultural win at the 160 K mark by the Vikings and they already are in 114.000 points, I'm not sure I'll make it on time, we'll see. I'll have to fuel wars amongst the AIs to reduce their culture points by half and keep them at bay on Commie or Fascist governments. One just has to goad the AI into these governments even by gifting them Fascism or Communism so as to hinder them.
I'm counting on a UNs election held every eleven turns to pull this one off.
12-07-05 update
I could also send 150-200 artys in transports, tanks and 12 armies loaded with 4 infantry each (or mechs) so as to RoP rape the Vikings, and take Trondheim (home of the UNs). I only need to hold it one turn to hold the elections. The problem is that Trondheim could flip in those two turns. I would take with me my SGL and rush a Palace the same turn I capture it preventing any flip and guaranteeing my win, or the next once the resistors have been quelled. Trondheim is only size 12; so 12 Armies, tanks etc... would quell the resistors. Besides, capturing Trondheim would destroy the Viking's space ship. I only have around 50 artys right now. I would have to disband my cavalry Armies to make those 12 new infantry (or mechs) Armies.
Both options are risky. The war with the Vikings is only a matter of time. I keep stealing techs from them and they are bound to catch me some time or other and declare war on me.
I only steal techs from the Vikings because I want to remain friends with the Celts which are currently at war with the Vikings and besides, are less advanced due to their fascist government. I wonder whose to blame for that ? 
I'll try to steal my way through to Miniaturisation to complete the Internet perhaps using the SGL If I make it on time to the SS victory.
War with the powerful and tech advanced Vikings cannot be held out for any longer. I would lose seven cities in their continent and 3 luxuries. I already lost gems because three of my cities flipped to them. I would probably lose Japan island aswell.
What I decide now will prove critical to win or lose this game. I really don't know what to do. I have to wheigh the pros and cons carefully. SS vic or UNs vote. 
Btw, the Vikings have just built S.E.T.I. they have Mechs.
(From where the hell does Moonsinger, the Goddess, get her 40 cavalry Armies to attack ? That's 160 cities in Sid,  My 12 Armies will have to do for now -sigh- )
13-07-05 update
I continued stealing techs safely (approx 4.700 gold) exclusively from the Vikings.
I studied what techs the Celts and English had already. So I stole Electronics and traded it with Mass Production for Flight from the Celts. The English paid me 75 gpt and I think they threw rubber in the deal IIRC.
Mass Production brought dockyards which helped to propel my gpt from 1.350 gpt to over 1.600 gpt, nice. Being seafaring you get an extra gold from coastal tiles. Out of my 13 core cities in my home island, ten were able to build dockyards. I had placed my cities to be in the coast except for the palace (Maastricht) which was in the middle of the island, the FP (Harlingen) and another city I cannot remember.
Life was nice in 1866 A.D. I had eight luxuries, peace and more than 48 cities. It was then when disaster struck. I failed an espionage stealing tech mission. I was caught and flagged.
The allmighty Vikings  decleared WAR on me in 1866 A.D.
The following turn (1868) they took over three of my luxuries in their home continent and I lost 8 cities to them. New Amsterdam size-20 was burned to the ground. My last city was conquered in 1870 A.D. The SoD they sent after New Lawersoog were most impressive (check the save !).
The Celts army was bigger (900 infantry, 500 cavalry), but the Viking's was more modern (well over 500 mechs and 50 tanks, TOWS ... you name it. My world population dropped from 29% to 25% and many cities are starving with so many entertainers. I put the luxury slider up to 20% from 0%.
That's why I had cash-rushed before hospitals in Japan, Portugal and Byzancium so that even with a war with the Vikings (and losing my eight cities in their continent) I would still remain up and above 25% of the world population should there be a UNs vote.
I immediately signed MA's against the Vikings with the other six AIs. Some were already at war with him. In exchange I gave incense (which surprisingly I hadn't been trading this luxury to anyone. I didn't trade in purpose to the Celts so they would remain in Fascism but I thought I was trading my other incenses with the remaining AIs, oh well.)
I had 12 Armies and 4 islands to defend. I sent 3 four-cavalry Armies in transports to guard each of the four islands. I disbanded two Armies in my home island and harvested 100 shields each in Harlingen ( I had a stack of 50 artys so I didn't really need Armies defending back home) because I wanted to build new Armies and fill them with 4 mechs so as to resort to Plan B (taking over the UNs at Trondheim with artys) should Plan A (the SS race) fail. With horror I realized that because I had lost 8 cities to the Vikings I was now unable to build those two disbanded Armies because I lacked the neccesary cities. I was stuck with only 10 four-cavalry Armies. Unacceptable !
I quickly rushed 8 settlers in Portugal, Bizancium and Japan to found new cities (somewhat crowded) and bring back again my Armies to 12.
The Vikings started their amphibious assaults and took some cities. I quickly took them back killing off their mechs with my 4-cavalry Armies. Horsies against Mechs  . Back in my home island I pounded with my Artys any Viking ships or transports that arrived. Many tanks were promoted to elite after engaging red-lined viking units which had been previously softened with Artys.
Following Oystein's great Espionage article I planted a spy four turns after I was flagged with a minimum percentage of being caught. I stole Computers from the Vikings using the most risky espionage mission (immediately) at only 2.400 gold, I was already at war with them and only made 875 gpt, so what the heck ! I succedeed, brave but foolish.
I entered the Modern Ages in 1884 A.D.
I am now 8 turns into this war with the Vikings and they are offering me peace already. I could sign it, trade for their 3 luxuries and I could rocket ahead of them to Miniaturisation, prebuild for Internet (or misuse my SGL) and start my SS victory. Everybody else will still be tech backwards and at war. The Vikings are only two techs ahead of me (Fission and Rocketry); stealing techs sure pays off in Sid. In Deity I never need to steal techs with my builder strategy.
The downside to this would be that I would get a rep hit for the first time in this game. So that'd be the end of the diplo victory for good. On the other hand, the Vikings cannot win them either after being at war with the whole planet ... So the diplo win would be ruled out for good should I impatiently sign for peace now when 13 turns of MA are still pending. I'll have to think it over.
At War I'm only making 875 gpt, half of what I was making during peace time. It would take me 38 turns to research Miniaturisation at war. perhaps it would be wiser to just steal it from under the Viking's nose and rush Internet with my SGL.
Things ain't looking so bad after all. I've cut their tech advantage from well over ten techs down to only two. If I sign a peace treaty and research monopoly techs they would soon become my puppy fueling my research with their viking gold. Life is good for the Dutch.
I have to calculate If the Vikings are going to beat me to a cultural win at the 160 K mark. Perhaps I should've taken over Trondheim with a RoP rape after all and won diplomatically rushing armies and forgetting to steal any further techs. A space race is going to take far too long. At least while the Vikings are at war -with everyone- their culture points are halfed so that slows their chance to a cultural victory. I forgot to do my maths. Damn it !
continued Sid storyline Part III (and final) seven posts below ...
Drakan
Last edited by Drakan on 26-07-2005 at 13:50
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Drakan
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Málaga, Spain
Jun 2004
time: 06:21
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Continued Sid storyline ... III. The End.
18-07-05 update
The Vikings beat me to Internet. So there go my hopes on a SS victory. Plan B it is. After twenty turns I sued for peace and signed a RoP with the Vikings. In this way I kept my flawless reputation with the other civs.
My population went down from 29% to 21%. They shelled the cities, units in garrison mode and all improvements in Japan and in Byzancium. They made like 4-5 landings on my homeland. Three cavalry Armies were killed defending. I'm now mm'g my cities to spike the pop growth up to previous levels of 25%.
The Americans were killed off by the Mongols. Now all civs have their islands all to themselves. I count with the Iroquoi, Mongol and English votes plus mine. Celts, Vikings and Arabs will abstain because I fought them in the past. That's 4 votes out of 7. A diplo win. Must avoid any further wars.
I've now sent 70 artys, 4 mechanized Armies, 8 tanks, 40 mechs etc... off to take over Trondheim. I'll rush the palace in one turn with my SGL. This first wave will take strategic positions around Trondheim. I'll send a second wave of units aswell (tanks preferably and 6 more mechanized Armies aswell as my precious SGL). No more tech-stealing for now, it's all cash-rushing Armies and units. I'd love to learn Miniaturisation however for my coastal cities.
I hope I can hold on to Trondheim for at least two turns with 10 mechanized Armies of 4 units each. I'll try to save the artys and pull them in Trondheim the next turn of the attack. I'll pillage the adjacent tiles to stop the Vikings capturing my artys the turn after I fire them. His lethal bombers are going to pulverize my units.
Something surprising. The Vikings are commy, so they get veteran spies. They've failed to plant twice (or thrice, cannot remember now) planting a spy in my capital. I have the Intelligence Agency there (Maastricht), I wonder If that has something to do with their failures (and although they get flagged when caught, they actually waited more turns than 3 turns each time before attempting another mission, so that isn't the explanation).
It's going to be rough.
19-07-05 update
Already have 100 artys, eleven 4-mechanized Armies and 48 tanks. I would need to cash-rush a further 30-50 tanks. Spying size 12 Trondheim reveals it's defended by 3 artys, 12 mechs, 5 TOWs and 3 tanks. Problem is that I cannot use my 11 mech Armies for attacking, only to pillage the tiles around Trondheim and move into it once captured and hold onto it for two turns. So its really up to 100 artys and 80-100 tanks to take over the city. A hell of a lot of units for just one city. Problem is that the Vikings would attack me with well over 500 mechs and a 100 tanks once I take over Trondheim. I need those 11 mech Armies green lined to hold them off at least one turn, supposing they actually can ... 
21-07-05 update
In the interturn of 1958 the Vikings extorted me Sanitation or else ... I gave in. That was the final straw.
They already had 8 tactical nukes. They had 5 parts of the SS built. I had to attack them before they got to Synthetic Fibers (Modern Armour) and ICBMs. I just didn't feel like pitting myself against an evil sid AI armed with nuclear warheads.
Next turn, in 1959 I declared war on them. I had 300 units ready to take over Trondheim and one of my king William units was there personally supervising the preemptive assault , my Plan B.
Just before attacking I took a peak at Trondheim. It was defended by well over 25 veteran mechs and a further 15-20 units including a GML. More than 40 Viking units ...
I had deployed over a 100 artys, over 100 tanks, 12 mech Armies, 25 or so mechs (13 drafted), 12 swiss mercenaries, 8 cavalries, one AA gun, one SGL and one king unit. All in all, just over 300 units.
I fired an arty. Immediately I signed MA with everyone against the Vikings. Everyboby was already at war with them except for the Iroquois.
I used my mechs, cavalry and swiss mercenaries to pillage all tiles within a radius of 3-4 tiles around Trondheim. I pillaged mountains because that would consume two movement points of the viking units. That would, hopefully, buy me enough time -two turns- to hold UNs elections and become elected.
I fired the remaining 100 artys, only one hp was removed from each of the defender's units. I stacked-attacked my SoD of 100 tanks. 50 or so persished. Trondheim was captured.
After the Armies pillaged every tile they could I moved all the units which had remaining movement points to Trondheim. In 1960 all the artys were moved into the city. I rushed a palace (which would take 800 turns) my SGL in one turn so as to avoid any flip chances.
The plan was very successful. I actually managed to ward off the viking units for two turns, 1960 and 1961.
And guess what ?
After all the nuisance and hard work the elections were not called up by the CPU. WTF !!! 
So in the interturn of 1961 I was literally steamrolled by the overwhelming viking forces: over 100 cavalry, over 300 tanks, 800 mechs etc ...
I haven't continued the game. But I believe I should've won. It's like when you take over the GL, the techs pour in the next turn. Well it should be the same with the UNs. The next turn of capturing it, elections should be held. I wonder If I should've counted every 11 turns from 1820 onwards and timed it with its capture, so just the turn after I capture it, elections are held for the post of chairman.
I have no idea what's gone wrong. Anyways, I don't have a standing army now and my income has jumped 300 gpt with all the lost units. Tragedy.
Oh well, it was my first go at Sid anyway. And it was a heavily tainted builder's game at that, more like softcore warmonger really. I should've turned out completely warmonger . I'll be back !
N.B.: So If the UNs follow an 11-turn cycle I have to resort to maths:
It was built in 1820. The first elections should've been held then. So the dates it will hold elections would be:
1842
1864
1886
1908
1930
1951
and 1962
Damn it. Had I waited two turns more I would've won the game by a diplo victory.
Huh ? How crazy is that ! I'll test this tonight and If I'm right I'm not going to call this sid game a loss, NO WAY, how the hell was I suppose to know that 11-cycle thing that rules the UNs !! I thought the cycle restarted once you captured it, on the consecutive turn. Man, I'm enraged. You can tell I always build the UNs and never need to resort to stealing it from some poor AI civ.
Trondheim must be taken over, If my maths are right, on 1960-1961. I hold to it for two turns and the elections should crop up sometime in 1962 unless I've done some miscalculation. 
22-07-05 update -and last-
This time I just waited two turns to atack. Instead of attacking in 1959 like I did the day before yesterday, I just skipped two turns and attacked Trondheim in 1961 carrying out a RoP rape. I signed MA with everyone against good old Ragnar. I wouldn't consider it reloading because my troops were already in position way before 1959 and I had no idea that the 11-year cycle takes place since the UNs is built (1820 in this case) and not since its owned/captured like I thought. You just won't find that info in the civilopaedia or anywhere else, it's experience.
The following turn in 1962 the elections to the UNs were held.
The two candidates were myself and Ragnar the Viking (because he had managed to hit the 25% world population limit ironically with two of the cities he captured me on his continent which had hospitals and grew well over size 20: New The Hague).
The results were staggering: I got the five votes from all the AIs and my own vote. Ragnar voted for himself. So it was 6 Vs 1. I was elected chairman and won the game. I would've expected that having been at war wit the Arabs and Celts they would've abstained but it just wasn't the case. Except for that last RoP rape my rep was flawless all game through and I only razed three cities (autorazed really). Queen Isabella had been avenged at long last !
The number crunching: 61 hours and 25 minutes. William the Magnificent. 5400 lousy points. In any deity game I always score a minimum of 7000 points (but that's pangaea of course). 18 pages to tell this Sid story and 20 saves which show the development of the whole game from 4000 B.C. through to victory in 1962 A.D. A picture (save) is worth a thousand words. Only 7 civilizations survived the onslaught out of the 16 which started this game.
The other AIs don't take into account the RoP rape and you don't get a rep hit If you sign a MA against someone. So it wouldn't affect their vote at all. But once the war is over you do get that rep hit from them as explained in Bamspeedy's AI Attitude. But who cares ? I had won already.
This I must highlight is not a very good example of the Builder Strategy because there was a fair deal of warmongering going on. Also the great elevator is not neccessary at Deity whereas in this Sid game it was almost the only way out. But still it may act as a tainted example of a builder strategy at Sid.
Voluntas Omnia Vincit
Drakan
come to think of it I should start a new game tonight with the Mayans or Byzantines. This game is sure more addictive than crack !
--- THE END ---
Sid conclusions
After playing a finished Sid game (huge archipiélago, 80% water, 15 random civs) over the weekend I drew the conclusion that there are basically three different types of AI civs regardless of their traits and depending solely on their geographical location:
1. AI which started on very small islands and only managed to build 5 or less cities. They were stuck in the Ancient Ages all game through. They were extremely backwards technologically with huge AAs armies and massive upkeeps which hampered any further development or research.
2. AI which started on an intermediate island big enough to harbour 6-15 cities. They managed to research and trade and somehow plod ahead. They were kind of intermediate.
3. AIs which started in huge islands by themselves or in a huge island with other AI civs but they had a more powerful early UU (such as GS or Berserk) and quickly took over their home continent wiping out the remaining civs on it. They became the games powerhouses and the runaway Sid AIs which were way ahead of everyone else with more than 15 cities.
So my point is that the geographical starting location of the AIs in Sid completely determined how well they fared regardless of their civ traits.
And when two or three of them started on the same island, the one with the most powerful and early UU takes over the whole continent.
In deity the geographical location is important for an AI civ to thrive but it doesn't determine it as much. But in Sid in an archipiélago map the AIs just seem to fall in one of the three categories aforementioned.
.- Another conclusion is that the AIs don't research Sanitation. (?)
.- Also, when in the configuration screen I set the AI agressiveness to be at the maximum , this probably made the smaller civs with less than 5-6 cities to build military units non stop due to their fast sid build rate and remain stuck in the Ancient ages throughout the rest of the game due to the high upkeep costs which hampered any futher research. This became very useful for me when invading them with more modern units (cavalry and rifleman). So in truth, I had turned around their own Sid strength to play up against them !
.- At Deity the Builder Strategy works fine (I've used it more than 15 times and have never had a problem winning with it using different civs in huge pangaea with 15 random AI civs).
The problem is that in Sid the building rate for the AI is increased from 40 to 60% over the human. This means that you are almost forced to play on an archipiélago map to delay contacts amongst the AIs and this way hinder their fast tech pace buying you time to develop and play catch up from behind. But this goes against the very best interests of this Builder Strategy which requires all the civs to be very advanced and well developed so you can funnel all the gold out of them to propel your own research of monopoly techs and surge ahead.
At Sid the AIs seem to be always cash-strapped because they build far too many military units and the upkeep costs just pulls them down from having any spare cash at all. Perhaps If I had selected the AIs to be the least aggressive in the configuration screen they wouldn't have built as many units and would have allocated more cash to research and to building improvements which would've speeded up tremendously the game techwise and helped the builder strategy to shine.
Even the most advanced AIs are under Fascism or commie so they are not making much money. The Vikings were only researching at 30% ! The most gpt I made in a turn in this Sid game from them was only a meagre 300 gpt which is just peanuts for this strat to work out properly.
At Deity I was raking in from the AIs anywhere between 1.000-2.000 gpt plus all the lump gold they had, which in some cases was well over 40.000 gold (Greeks in my Sumerian game).
So all in all I must conclude that my builder strategy just won't work at Sid due to the fast building rate which almost forces you to play archipiélago maps which happen to be the most unsuitable for my builder strategy. On pangaea you get the 8 luxuries well before Navigation, at the beginning of the Middle Ages. At Sid you have to wait for Navigation in an archipiélago map to trade for them.
Although I have seen some german players (Kronic ?) who manage to win Sid peacefully with no military units at all (!) playing as builders (so he doesn't even resort to the GL trick as I did which would trigger necessarily a war unless it flips back to you at the right moment, wow !).
But then again I would love for someone to prove me wrong and play with my builder strategy on Sid and win !
-- End conclusion: I should've waited longer to capture the GL at The Hague. I should've waited and made sure that Entremont (Celts) were building a factory with the help of my embassy. I've I'd learned Industrialisation things would've certainly been different I guess. I could've had a shot at ToE and Hoover's. Perhaps aiming for a prebuild of the UNs instead of having to capture it from the Vikings at Trondheim in 1961 which would've brought about a more "pure" builder game
Last edited by Drakan on 27-07-2005 at 15:02
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Drakan
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Málaga, Spain
Jun 2004
time: 06:21
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Hi Jimmyh. You don't need to prebuild the GL at all at Deity with a palace or whatever. Even the GL in the game I posted sid level with William the Dutch was built without any class of prebuild (perhaps a few turns with a temple can't remember really). In fact you don't even need to start off with alphabet either to build it first.
Do not trade Literature (or Writing) before you are sure you'll complete the GL even under extortion. Build embassies and sign RoP to mitigate wars out of extortion.
The trick is to mine all useful tiles in the city that's building it and bringing it to size 12 asap by joining workers if neccesary. Look at my saves. I have saves for both Deity and Sid that'll show you the wonder city the turn before the GL is completed. You'll see that the ciy is size 12 and all tiles are carefully MM so as to maximize the shield output which on average will be somewhere between 17-21 spt enabling you to finish the GL in 400/21= 19 turns or less without a prebuild. It is paramount to get your wonder city to size 10 at least a few turns before you actually start building the GL.
In any case, once you switch production to building it, your city should definitely be size 12 and all citizens working tiles, no entertainers whatsover. You put the research slider to zero and increase the luxury slab to 30-50% so as to make sure all the 12 citizens are content/happy and are all working on the 12 tiles which highest spt value. If the city happens to starve you join a worker each turn but I doubt it will be necessary.
Once you finish the GL you lower the luxury slider to zero If needed be again. You ought to have hooked/traded all the luxuries you can.
It takes some practice to get it right. But once you are able to build the GL confidently at Deity everything will become easier following this Builder strategy, trust me.
With the Builder strategy you will be able to exercise a fair amount of power in a game with as little as 10-12 cities. You don't need more really to win builder-style at Deity.
Last edited by Drakan on 20-07-2005 at 19:39
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Drakan
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Málaga, Spain
Jun 2004
time: 06:21
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Hmm. The AI will typically deride the tech of Literature for last in the AAs coupled with Republic, so even If they learn Writing before you, trade for it (pay gpt, lump sum whatever it takes) and set your research slider to the maximum so you make sure you'll be the first to get to Literature.
Just focus in the beeline Writing---Literature researching at max speed.
Even if you only have one turn advantage over them when they start building the GL themselves that'll be 21 shields in your advantage with a size 12 city. More than enough to win them.
The wonder cascades are usually over by the time they learn Literature ironically because of their increased build rate over their human conterpart at Deity.
If they get to Writing before you you, perhaps you have to practice more your trading skills.
EDIT: from turn one of the game you should increase the luxury slider to 30-40% so as to prevent unhapiness when the city grows. As your workers build roads and mines, you'll hook up luxuries or trade for them thus enabling you to lower the luxury slide.
In any case, the first tech you research (Writing I suppose) will take 50 turns in C3C If you have the research slider at 10% or at 100%. After 10-20 turns as you build up infrastructure with your workers, and commerce (i.e. gold) starts to pour in the time to research the tech decreases significantly. Now you are able to allocate more cash to research techs moving on up tech slider.
My advice is to fiddle around with your luxury slide and see how it affetcs your citizens. Below Emperor you hardly need to move it, because by default you get two content citizens per city, whilst from Emperor onwards you only get one content citizen per city and it takes a whole lot more of MMg.
Last edited by Drakan on 20-07-2005 at 20:09
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jimmyh
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Sunny Old England
Sep 2001
time: 05:21
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I had nothing to trade with...the only techs i researched my self were alphabet...I bought writing for 338g and 12gtp which i didn't like doing :s. And any one had the techs i started with...maybe i'll try again and choose some one who starts with alphabet.
Oh i was playing as the Sumerians
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28-06-2005 17:03
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