29-06-2005 19:21									#31
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The courts have touched on the issue in the past. From 3 years ago:

quote: Gay teen wins fight over Catholic prom Last Updated Wed, 22 May 2002 17:05:24 OSHAWA, ONT. - A Roman Catholic high school student celebrated Friday after a judge ruled that the teen has the right to take his boyfriend to an end-of-the-year dance. The decision came only hours before the prom was scheduled to begin in Oshawa, Ont., just east of Toronto. "I feel at ease now just knowing that we're getting free of discrimination," said Marc Hall, 17, sporting a white tuxedo and blue hair as he prepared to hop in a limousine with his boyfriend. Marc Hall Ontario Superior Court Justice Robert McKinnon granted the student's request for an injunction against the Durham Catholic District School Board. "The idea of equality speaks to the conscience of all humanity dignity and worth," McKinnon wrote in his ruling. "Marc Hall is a Roman Catholic Canadian trying to be himself. He is gay. It's not an answer to Section 15 Charter rights on these facts to deny permission to attend a school function to celebrate the end of his high school career with his classmates." Hall said he's not worried about encountering anyone at the prom who might be upset about the judge's decision. "Most them support me anyway, so I'm just going to go have fun with them," he told reporters. Hall launched the case after officials told him not to bring his 21-year-old boyfriend to the dance at Monsignor John Pereyma Catholic high school. Officials acknowledged that Hall has the right to be gay, but said permitting the date would send a message that the church supports his "homosexual lifestyle." FROM MAY 7, 2002: Gay student a 'bad example' says school board The board had argued that allowing a gay student to bring a date to a Catholic function is "not consistent with teachings of the church." Officials told McKinnon that if Hall doesn't accept the faith's beliefs he could always go to a public school. But Hall said his rights were being violated because the ruling was based solely on his sexual orientation. FROM MAY 6, 2002: Gay teen takes Catholic school to court over prom date His lawyer, David Corbett, argued that the school board doesn't have such sweeping powers under the Constitution. He said the ban contravened the Ontario Human Rights Code, the Education Act, and the provincial Code of Conduct. The school board said it's disappointed by Friday's decision, but will abide by the judge's ruling. It also plans to keep fighting in court. Hall said he, too, is ready for any appeal. "I'm prepared to take it to trial in order to set a precedent so that nobody else will have to go through what I had to go through," Hall told reporters.

	29-06-2005 19:31									#32
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Marc Hall is ugly and completely flamboyant now, BTW.

He goes to the University of Waterloo (same school as the SO) and seems to think he's a massive celebrity with a chip on his shoulder.

	29-06-2005 19:33									#33
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...and he has discontinued the appeal (financial reasons AFAIK).

	29-06-2005 19:34									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Wezil Gay "marriage" wasn't the agenda a decade ago. The agenda moving forward in this country appears to be to force compliance (read: acceptance) by the churches. The campaign to remove their tax free status has already begun. This will be accomplished by showing the Church practices and beliefs are in conflict with the Charter.

Remove the tax exemption status from the cults, I say! We don't need to have government-sponsored brainwashing. It ruins potentially good people.

	29-06-2005 19:41									#35
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Fair enough position but unfair for others to label Ben as 'paranoid' when his concerns are valid.

	29-06-2005 19:57									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Wezil Fair enough position but unfair for others to label Ben as 'paranoid' when his concerns are valid.

Really? I still await any example where a church has even been seriously in danger of losing its tax exempt status over not allowing someone to throw a party on its premesis. Since receptions aren't generally considered part of church ceremony, nor are they even usually held on church grounds, I have to wonder why anyone would think a church would be required to host a reception when they don't even have to host the wedding. It's a pretty damned silly thing to think.

	29-06-2005 20:07									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Really? I still await any example where a church has even been seriously in danger of losing its tax exempt status over not allowing someone to throw a party on its premesis. Since receptions aren't generally considered part of church ceremony, nor are they even usually held on church grounds, I have to wonder why anyone would think a church would be required to host a reception when they don't even have to host the wedding. It's a pretty damned silly thing to think.

For the same reason you can't ban a gay student from bringing his boyfriend to a Catholic Highschool dance. Churches often have reception halls that they rent out. If they rent to some then they must rent to all. Not silly at all, and if we are both still posting here a few years from now I will be glad to post the case showing how wrong you are.

My quick Google search (use the .ca suffix) shows this is a very real issue.

	29-06-2005 20:16									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Wezil For the same reason you can't ban a gay student from bringing his boyfriend to a Catholic Highschool dance.

Catholic Highschool = Public Money....

	29-06-2005 20:20									#39
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As is "tax-free" in a sense since we all pay more to make up the difference.

	29-06-2005 21:20									#40
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What is the extent of status?

Do churches pay:
a) property taxes
b) gst
c) corporate (?) taxes

Do church employees pay:
a) gst
b) provincial sales taxes
c) payroll taxes
d) income taxes
e) ei
f) the Ontario health premium

	29-06-2005 21:20									#41
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quote: Protect? An odd word. But whether a church can discriminate against people who want to rent its facilities would be determined by existing laws. So there is no need to cover it in the new law.

Right, and we all know how that will be resolved.

	29-06-2005 21:23									#42
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quote: Are you really this paranoid? Can you cite me any instance where any church was forced to host a reception "and the rest" at all? The notion that legalizing gay marriage will force any church to do something like this is simply absurd.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/nati...ing-050124.html

Right, Boris. Paranoid I am, when there is this case that is already being fought! The bill, as worded, provides no protection to religious institutions who do not want to affirm gay marriage.

	29-06-2005 21:25									#43
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quote: Remove the tax exemption status from the cults, I say! We don't need to have government-sponsored brainwashing. It ruins potentially good people.

Potentially good? So only by leaving the church would they become good people?

The churches and their charities take a significant burden off of the states, and they ought to be encouraged to continue doing so.

	29-06-2005 21:31									#44
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This must be one of the single greatest things our country has ever done, if only because it bothers Ben so much.

Next step - force churches to perform aboritions.

	29-06-2005 21:33									#45
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No its the second. The best was legalising abortion in the first place.

1000 years from now, that will be Canada's greatest legacy...

	29-06-2005 21:34									#46
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If only they'd less kill our old.

	29-06-2005 21:56									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Right, Boris. Paranoid I am, when there is this case that is already being fought! The bill, as worded, provides no protection to religious institutions who do not want to affirm gay marriage.

Excellent citation Ben. I knew such a case would be out there but couldn't be bothered looking for it. I found this bit interesting:

quote: The women claim it's discriminatory to offer a facility to the public and then say a particular group can't use it.

Now where did I hear that recently...?


Leo - Excellent question that I too would be curious to hear the answer. Anyone?

	29-06-2005 22:12									#48
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On a related note, Harper claimed that the separatists forced gay marriage into the federation.

	29-06-2005 22:16									#49
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Martin was certainly in bed with the separatists (no pun intended).

	29-06-2005 22:24									#50
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Quebec is where everything starts in this country.

I'm very happy the Bloc Quebecois got Martin to do something useful for once. All that scandal and bickering was getting tiresome.

	29-06-2005 23:08									#51
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo What is the extent of status? Do churches pay: a) property taxes b) gst c) corporate (?) taxes Do church employees pay: a) gst b) provincial sales taxes c) payroll taxes d) income taxes e) ei f) the Ontario health premium

They should pay all of the above, there is no logical reason for them not to.

In fact, some people consider them a scourge.

	29-06-2005 23:11									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Wezil Martin was certainly in bed with the separatists (no pun intended).

So was Harper a month ago, and disbanding their alliance now is dumb.

	29-06-2005 23:13									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Asher They should pay all of the above, there is no logical reason for them not to. In fact, some people consider them a scourge.

You are telling this to an atheist extremist like me?



Anyways, I forgot to celebrate.

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arty:
w000p w00p w0p w000p w00p w000p w000p w00000000000000p w00p w00p w00p w000p
arty:
w00p w00p w000p w0000p w000p 0w0p w00p w00p w00p w00p w000000p w00p w0p w0p w0pp w000p

	29-06-2005 23:14									#54
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Both the Liberals and the Conservatives would sell their own children to get what they want.

The only parties who stand for anything are the NDP and Bloc, because they've got nothing to lose.

	29-06-2005 23:14									#55
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo quote: Originally posted by Wezil Martin was certainly in bed with the separatists (no pun intended). So was Harper a month ago, and disbanding their alliance now is dumb.

I agree, hence I chuckle at the Liberals having both ways and the public (including posters here) letting them. We're not dumb though.

	29-06-2005 23:16									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Wezil I agree, hence I chuckle at the Liberals having both ways and the public (including posters here) letting them. We're not dumb though.

We aren't?

	29-06-2005 23:20									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Ninot We aren't?

No sir. We are a politically savvy people. We can overlook gross corruption in Our Ruling Party in order to keep the hidden agenda folk out of power. We are indeed quite clever.

	30-06-2005 00:33									#58
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Canada!

	30-06-2005 00:53									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Right, Boris. Paranoid I am, when there is this case that is already being fought!

I asked for an instance where such an event had been forced to occur. That's just one couple in the process of a complaint. Get back to me when the commission decides the church has to comply.

Anyone can bring a suit like this. That doesn't mean it will be deemed to have merit.

quote: The bill, as worded, provides no protection to religious institutions who do not want to affirm gay marriage.

The very article you posted notes that the Supreme Court of Canada ruled that churches can't be compelled to officiate same-sex unions if they don't want to. So whatever the wording of the bill is quite irrelevant, since their right to refuse has been confirmed by the court.

	30-06-2005 01:09									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Wezil ...and he has discontinued the appeal (financial reasons AFAIK).

Who has? Hall? So he was in the process of an appeal? Wouldn't that indicate he had lost a ruling?