02-07-2005 07:51									#1
	Incense City & North Ishtar site poll Got spare money?

This Poll is a TWO function Poll. See Pictures in the 2 following posts for site info.

First Part - Settle North Ishtar site
It asks if we want to settle the North Ishtar site. This will overlap the AM city of Unreal Estate. This might cause problems with them. It will also be more vulnerable to attack, but then we can keep enough forces there to prevent that.

Settling North Ishtar also gives us the tiles between the 2 city sites to use by either or both cities.

Culturally, we are not too far behind AM and fast catching up with Lib and Temple builds. As our Libs are cheaper, they can be built faster and we get the better of the cultural curve. So, culture flipping is not a problem for us. We also have the better Government, so that helps until our Culture can fully catch up with them.

If you want North Ishtar built, choose the options that have Incensity (either site) WITH North Ishtar. If not, then choose the options that have WITHOUT.


Second Part - Incensity site choices
Incensity at site #1: (See follow-up post #1 for picture)
This site will overlap the AM city of Unreal Estate. This might cause problems with them. It will also be more vulnerable to attack, but then we can keep enough forces there to prevent that.

It has Immediate access to 1 Flood Plain and 1 Forested Game. It will culturally expand into one more Flood Plain, one more Forrest and a Grassland. Coupled with the Hills, could be a fair Producer and can get up to a decent Population.

Culturally, with both Cities overlapping Unreal Estate, there is a very good chance that we can get it to Flip to us.

Incensity at site #2: (See follow-up post #2 for picture)
This site doesn’t overlap AM city, but will have expanded border overlap with Unreal Estate (a non issue really). Safer site as we are further from AM border

It only has Immediate to a good food source is North Ishtar is settled and only on that one game tile. With Cultural expansion, it can also access 1 Flood Plains, 1 Forested Game and 1 Plains. The Forested Game tile might have a cultural contention with Unreal Estate, until the city has a higher culture than it does.

[EDIT]Both Incensity sites DO NOT have access to Fresh Water!![/edit]

Other Options
Don’t build Incensity but do build North Ishtar
or
Don’t build either cities.
or
Banana Inanna (Abstain)


Poll is open for 5 days OR until we have to play the turn that we need the decision finalized (towards end of our time limit, that is).


HPotW E_T

Last edited by E_T on 02-07-2005 at 21:59

	02-07-2005 07:55									#2
	Follow-up post #1 - Incensity Site Option #1 Remove this text

Incensity at Site #1 - See next post for other picture

E_T

Attachment: incensity option #1.jpg
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	02-07-2005 07:57									#3
	Follow-up post #2 - Incensity Site Option #2 Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Incensity at site #2 - See Previous Post for other Picture

E_T

Attachment: incensity option #2.jpg
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	02-07-2005 07:58									#4
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I apologize for how I had to set this up, as somehow I can’t upload these pictures and can only attach 1 picture per post, so 2 follow-up posts.

I support the Incensity at site #1 with North Ishtar being also being built.

E_T

	02-07-2005 21:09									#5
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I much perfer #2.

#1 is one tile away from fresh water acess.

#2 is also avoids using up a good food tile in a food shortage area. Additionly, #2 gets the hills defensive bonus.

Both of these cities are going to need local Baracks, Temples, Libaries, and also military units brought in to defend them.

	02-07-2005 21:15									#6
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This is going to take some thought.

	02-07-2005 21:50									#7
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Neither site has fresh water access

[EDIT] Updated Original post to reflect that fact.[/edit]

E_T

Last edited by E_T on 02-07-2005 at 22:09

	03-07-2005 06:58									#8
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Definitely build #2 Incense site.

Not so sure about North Ishtar though.

	03-07-2005 22:51									#9
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Yes, but #2 is two tiles away from fresh water instead of just one. (Mountain tiles don't count for this purpose except in the MesoAmerica conquest)

In fact #2 would fit in really well with say AM founding a city 8-8-8 of there and in the distant future maybe us taking it over.

quote: Originally posted by E_T Neither site has fresh water access [EDIT] Updated Original post to reflect that fact.[/edit] E_T

	06-07-2005 08:13									#10
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Had to give this some thought. I went with Incensity at #1 and building North Ishtar.

The second part first - I would not want to build Incensity (edit - I meant Icensity not Ishtar) without having a two city 'base' to support it. I think it would simply be too exposed. Hence the support for North Ishatr.

Incensity site #1 is clearly the better site, and would have been the choice if AM had not built. So I say we drop in the two cities and rush the culture builds (and walls)

Some other considerations - this is fairly aggressive move at a time when the world political scene is somewhat touchy. That would argue against this - and going with #2 alone. But my view is "in for a penny, in for a pound", let's build both.

The other viable option is to forget about the site altogether, and concentrate on building closer to home. It is somewhat of a tenuous site to obtain a luxury - but I suppose also a strategic centre site. That may be helpful.

So - the three viable options IMO are:

#1 with North Ishtar

#2 alone

Nada-nothing-zip.

And it is a close call. I could be persuaded to go with #2 (despite my penny and pound bravery) given the political situation - and we are only using one settler.

Klo and jon - your thoughts on #2???

Last edited by Beta on 07-07-2005 at 07:03

	06-07-2005 09:09									#11
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Other Settler gets built very soon (1225BC), the other city would be founded 2 turns after the Incensity site does (less distance to travel).

E_T

	06-07-2005 09:50									#12
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Overall, I don't see much benefit to North Ishtar. It's not going to be a very good city and it's going to have to fight with AM for tiles. It gives us some options for invasion, though, which is about all I see to recommend it.

Still not sure...

	07-07-2005 07:01									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Kloreep Still not sure...

That's about wher I am.

I am now leaning to #2 without North Ishtar. But I have already voted. Where are all the other votes????

	07-07-2005 09:00									#14
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Beta, can you reopen this poll and give it 5 to 7 more days? I had originally set it at 5 days, as I wasn't counting on the game slowing THIS much with the holiday.

E_T

	07-07-2005 20:01									#15
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Sorry I haven't voted yet.

I know building these cities would be an aggressive move. But the world has other things to worry about. I am leaning towards grab it while we can.

I have tried to make contact with AM regarding or border (not a new letter) and other issues. They have yet to respond. In what a week? Lost Boys claim they have no border issues with us.

So, since no one has put a claim on this site, I am leaning towards building the Incense city.

Open the poll and I'll vote for an option.

	08-07-2005 01:44									#16
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No - I can't open the poll. Need a mod - which I am not.

skro - simply state your vote. We are a small enough team, and I'm sure our Babylonian education will allow us to count the votes.

	08-07-2005 01:48									#17
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So count my vote as "Number one with NI". Saw this poll too late...

	08-07-2005 02:37									#18
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my vote:
Incensity at #1 with North Ishtar

In for a penny in for a pound. Incensity at 1 or 2 plus North Ishtar is going to pi55 off AM. Too bad. I tried to open border talks and got no response. Besides, AM is nuetral they'll never attack

	08-07-2005 04:25									#19
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Consider this my ride in vote as well:

#2 and North Ishtar based on the in for a penny, in for a pound principle.

Piss on em, lets give them a reason not to talk borders.

	08-07-2005 07:27									#20
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Hey Con, MZ is on AM....

Want to be our War Priest?

E_T

	08-07-2005 17:48									#21
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quote: Originally posted by E_T Hey Con, MZ is on AM.... Want to be our War Priest? E_T

	08-07-2005 20:37									#22
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Am I missing something?

	08-07-2005 21:02									#23
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by skrobism Am I missing something?

Ya its an MZO thing, MZ and I are like oil and water, the fvcking snot nosed self centered punk he is.

I chose which team I was going to be on very carefully. The reason Im here is because of the great people on it, Beta of course being the exception Every other team had some smart ass punk that I did not want to spend any of my online time with.

But I wont tell you how I really feel.

Guys on the war priest, Im going to have to decline, my work troubles are winding down but they aren't over yet. I just dont want to commit to something Im not sure I can stick out.

I still feel kind of bad dumping my PBEM's several months ago..........

But Ill pop in here from time to time to see how things are going and offer occasional opinions. Because opinions are like a$$holes, everyone has one.......

	09-07-2005 10:48									#24
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quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 Consider this my ride in vote as well: #2 and North Ishtar based on the in for a penny, in for a pound principle. Piss on em, lets give them a reason not to talk borders.

Con, I want to make this clear, you want #2 with NI, but your also taking the stance that strobism is taking of "in for a penny, in for a pound". He voted for #1 with NI (which is more along that stance than #2 with NI).

So, just to be clear, which is it?

E_T

	09-07-2005 10:53									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Kloreep Overall, I don't see much benefit to North Ishtar. It's not going to be a very good city and it's going to have to fight with AM for tiles. It gives us some options for invasion, though, which is about all I see to recommend it. Still not sure...

Klor, did you ever post your final vote? If not, are you still undecided as to NI?

E_T

	09-07-2005 19:43									#26
	Put an end to popups!

The more I look at the map - the more I am convinced it is North Ishtar and #1. It is tight and aggressive - but I like the layout. It is just too bad that #1 is 4 tiles from the North Ishtar site. If we moved North ishtar one tile 9 (onto the floodplain) we would would have a nice 3 tile spacing for defensive purposes. And furthermore - moves it away from the mountains which I generally like (as adjacent mountains are the best way to attack a city.)

	09-07-2005 19:45									#27
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quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 Ya its an MZO thing, MZ and I are like oil and water, the fvcking snot nosed self centered punk he is. I chose which team I was going to be on very carefully. The reason Im here is because of the great people on it, Beta of course being the exception Every other team had some smart ass punk that I did not want to spend any of my online time with. But I wont tell you how I really feel.

C'mom con, tell us how you REALLY feel.

After the shared-victory debacle that was the end of the PTWDG, I do tend to agree with you.

Take care Bro. Hope the work stuff is going OK.

	09-07-2005 20:12									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Beta The more I look at the map - the more I am convinced it is North Ishtar and #1. It is tight and aggressive - but I like the layout. It is just too bad that #1 is 4 tiles from the North Ishtar site. If we moved North ishtar one tile 9 (onto the floodplain) we would would have a nice 3 tile spacing for defensive purposes. And furthermore - moves it away from the mountains which I generally like (as adjacent mountains are the best way to attack a city.)

But Both are 3 tiles from Lake Ishtar. Where we can have a ready reserve force, to move in either/both directions, if need be.

And the road from Lake Ishtar to NI will be build very soon after NI is (and long before the road from Felinicity will be built). So, movement of troops will be o.k.

Plus, we can always do the troop shuffle, from Inc to LI and LI to NI.

E_T

	10-07-2005 08:09									#29
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quote: Originally posted by E_T Klor, did you ever post your final vote? If not, are you still undecided as to NI? E_T

I voted before the poll closed. (#2 w/out NI)

	10-07-2005 17:27									#30
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quote: Originally posted by E_T But Both are 3 tiles from Lake Ishtar. Where we can have a ready reserve force, to move in either/both directions, if need be. And the road from Lake Ishtar to NI will be build very soon after NI is (and long before the road from Felinicity will be built). So, movement of troops will be o.k. Plus, we can always do the troop shuffle, from Inc to LI and LI to NI. E_T

OK - you convinced me.