05-07-2005 21:23									#121
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Good point that - what did atheists ever build? Marxism. Stalinism. Nazism. Fascism.

Which all turned into some kind of religion. They all very similar to religion, let me put it that way.

	05-07-2005 21:27									#122
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Since when did Ah become a godbotherer anyway? Are you really this desperate for a troll AH?

	05-07-2005 21:40									#123
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger You don't need to maintain a nonbelief. It's just there. That's why it is the default.

Why is it the default? Are you arguing that there is insufficient evidence for God's existence or that nonbelief is human instinct?

quote: You are perfectly right that beliefs require maintaining, but that has nothing to do with my point.

Nonbelief is a belief, though. Don't you think it would require some effort to maintain your disbelief in the face of a sudden crisis where you or someone important to you was in a life-threatening situation? When everything humanly possible has been done and all that is left is to wait... When you have nothing to latch onto except hope... Tell me that for even the briefest of moments you will not consider saying a small prayer to God.. I know about this - I've been there..

	05-07-2005 21:42									#124
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While weak, there's nothing wrong with it by itself. Just the same as calling for momma.

	05-07-2005 21:47									#125
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I just see how beyond the mindset of the believer that not believing is, they don't believe there is any other way of living beyond their own narrow and stilted view of existence...quite sad really...

	05-07-2005 22:09									#126
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Kierkegaard once asked the question: "If there was such a thing as an infinite being, would you expect to be able to comprehend it as a finite being?" What is your answer?

	05-07-2005 22:09									#127
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i just don't see why you care so much about what other people believe, ph.

	05-07-2005 22:26									#128
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Well by saying such stupid fallacies as 'non-belief is a belief' with clearly no concept of what is involved.

My answer is it is a hypothetical question with no relevence to the fairytales you are peddling...

	05-07-2005 22:35									#129
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quote: Originally posted by bfg9000 When everything humanly possible has been done and all that is left is to wait... When you have nothing to latch onto except hope... Tell me that for even the briefest of moments you will not consider saying a small prayer to God..

This reaction is perfectly human. It's about hoping that some unexplainable help sorts out the situation. However, it's dependent of your spiritual environment, rather than on your instinct:

An ancient polytheistic Greek, for example, would never ever think of praying a one all-powerful god in such situations. That's because the "default" belief in ancient Greece was polytheism. A modern Chinese, since he barely hears about God in his daily life, would probably sooner call for his mom than for God in dire circumstances. That's because christianty (or even monotheism) is not at all the "default" belief in China.

In the US, the "default" belief is christianty, and even the unbelievers have a position toward the christian religion, and are exposed to christian propaganda. Heck, even in this fairly skeptical forum, there's not one day without reading Jesus' name. Obviously, since the "default" belief in the US is christianty, the "default" call for miraculous help goes toward a single all powerful God, rather than to other things.

	05-07-2005 22:44									#130
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Well by saying such stupid fallacies as 'non-belief is a belief' with clearly no concept of what is involved.

Nonbelief in God = Belief in no God. It's a belief. And I made that statement to refute his assertion that "non beliefs do not need to be maintained".

quote: My answer is it is a hypothetical question with no relevence to the fairytales you are peddling...

If you are referring to the Kierkegaard question, then I'd say it is a damn good hypothetical that provides a serious challenge to the athiest position.... How can you write off something you can't comprehend.. At best you must acknowledge the possibilty of a Supreme Being...

	05-07-2005 22:46									#131
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quote: Originally posted by bfg9000 Nonbelief in God = Belief in no God. It's a belief. And I made that statement to refute his assertion that "non beliefs do not need to be maintained".

Says who? You?

quote: If you are referring to the Kierkegaard question, then I'd say it is a damn good hypothetical that provides a serious challenge to the athiest position.... How can you write off something you can't comprehend.. At best you must acknowledge the possibilty of a Supreme Being...

Well referring back to that question, if we met someone like that we would be extraordinarily impressed by their capabilities in that case. But we haven't met one, your God is nothing but hearsay...