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Kaak
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i would think rome would have a lot of viable candidates...
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Solver
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Apolyton Duke Of Something
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Latvia, Riga
Sep 2000
time: 07:19
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Thinking about the civs in this poll.
Aztecs - probably one leader. Except Montezuma, most people don't know any others. If there was a second leader, I'd add Axayacatl, for taking Tlateloco, but he's a pretty obscure figure, so it's probably just one leader.
Babylonians - Hammurabi and my second choice would easily be Nebuchadnezzar. Both very likely and recognizeable.
Egypt - tons of figures to choose from for a second leader. Ramses II, Amenhotep IV (Ehnaton), Tutankhamen for his recognizability, Seti I and Tuthmosis IV - just a few of the candidates.
Greece - many candidates except Alexander named above.
Incans - Atahualpa would be the first choice, seeing how he's like the Incan Montezuma being the most known one. Since Pachacuti conquered lots, he's also viable.
Japanese - there are probably other worthy leaders, but I don't know Japanese history, so can not suggest anyone else.
Persia - Cyrus is meh, I want Xerxes! Definitely a worthy second leader.
Rome - ohh, maybe Pontius Pilate  ? Charlemagne is also eligile, theoretically, as he was crowned Emperor of the Roman Empire, although if he were in, he'd be more likely as French. Marcus Aurelius and Titus Flavius are two interesting candidates.
Russians - quite a selection. Ivan the Terrible, Peter I, Vladimir Lenin and maybe even Nikolai II are interesting persons. Stalin isn't going to be in, obviously. Catherine is also an option, although less interesting than Ivan and Peter, IMO.
Spain - Isabella and Ferdinand would be my bet, but I don't know many more possible candidates.
Mali - I'm fairly certain there is only one Mali leader, this is hardly a civ with two recognizeable leaders. Even Mansa Musa isn't a very known person .
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Alexander01
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quote:
Originally posted by Solver
Thinking about the civs in this poll.
Aztecs - probably one leader. Except Montezuma, most people don't know any others. If there was a second leader, I'd add Axayacatl, for taking Tlateloco, but he's a pretty obscure figure, so it's probably just one leader.
Babylonians - Hammurabi and my second choice would easily be Nebuchadnezzar. Both very likely and recognizeable.
Egypt - tons of figures to choose from for a second leader. Ramses II, Amenhotep IV (Ehnaton), Tutankhamen for his recognizability, Seti I and Tuthmosis IV - just a few of the candidates.
Greece - many candidates except Alexander named above.
Incans - Atahualpa would be the first choice, seeing how he's like the Incan Montezuma being the most known one. Since Pachacuti conquered lots, he's also viable.
Japanese - there are probably other worthy leaders, but I don't know Japanese history, so can not suggest anyone else.
Persia - Cyrus is meh, I want Xerxes! Definitely a worthy second leader.
Rome - ohh, maybe Pontius Pilate ? Charlemagne is also eligile, theoretically, as he was crowned Emperor of the Roman Empire, although if he were in, he'd be more likely as French. Marcus Aurelius and Titus Flavius are two interesting candidates.
Russians - quite a selection. Ivan the Terrible, Peter I, Vladimir Lenin and maybe even Nikolai II are interesting persons. Stalin isn't going to be in, obviously. Catherine is also an option, although less interesting than Ivan and Peter, IMO.
Spain - Isabella and Ferdinand would be my bet, but I don't know many more possible candidates.
Mali - I'm fairly certain there is only one Mali leader, this is hardly a civ with two recognizeable leaders. Even Mansa Musa isn't a very known person . |
My thoughts:
Aztecs - Cuauhtemoc was Moctezuma II's short-lived successor. He might work, but I don't think the Aztecs will get two.
Babylonians - Hammurabi and Nebuchadnezzar for sure. A little redundant though.
Egyptians - You bring up some good alternatives. I might suggest Khufu, Khafra, Thutmose III, Narmer, Cleopatra (hopefully not).
Greeks - Previously mentioned Pericles, Drakon, Themistokles, Kleisthenes, Leonidas, and Brasidas, and I could add Solon, Hippias, Alkibiades, Nikias, and Agesilaos.
Incas - Pachacuti and Atahualpa are the best options. If they've kept the Incas, that is.
Japanese - I'd suggest Shogun Minamoto Yoritomo, the Daimyo Oda Nobunaga, and Toyotomi Hideyoshi, the Emperor Meiji, who modernized Japan, or Emperor Hirohito from WWII or Tojo Hideki, the War Minister in WWII.
Persians - Xerxes is cool, but I think Darius the Great is better, personally. I think the Achaemenids are the best option. Or Arsaces the Parthian, or Ardashir or Khusrau or Shapur II of the Sassanids. Or any of the Middle Ages' Muslim Safavids. They could always pick Ayatollah Khomeini, for a modern option.  Not likely. I think we're stuck with Cyrus. He's not that bad! 
Romans - Not Charlemagne. He was Frankish, so he'd get either French or Germans (leaning towards German, because old Frankish is more Germanic thatn Latin). Perhaps any of the following Caesars: Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius, Nero, Vespasian, Trajan, Hadrian, Marcus Aurelius, Diocletian, Constantine. The rest were mostly pushovers.
Russians - Rurik, St. Vladimir, Aleksander Nevsky, Ivan the Great, Ivan the Terrible, Peter the Great, Catherine the Great, Nicholas II, Lenin (he was in CivII), Stalin (wasn't he in CivI?).
Spanish - Isabella, El Cid, Ferdinand, Philip II, Franco. Not my choice, they'd all behave relatively the same.
and the Malinese - Mansa Musa or Sundiate Keita. No one else is noteworthy.
In other words, as I've previously said, I think it will be Egypt, Rome, Russia, or Greece.
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sophist
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quote:
Originally posted by Alexander01
Romans - Not Charlemagne. He was Frankish, so he'd get either French or Germans (leaning towards German, because old Frankish is more Germanic thatn Latin). Perhaps any of the following Caesars: Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius, Nero, Vespasian, Trajan, Hadrian, Marcus Aurelius, Diocletian, Constantine. The rest were mostly pushovers.
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Caligula, Claudius, and Nero? Za?
Someone else pointed out how Pericles would be good because he ruled during the Golden Age of Athens, so that's definitely a vote for either Augustus or 4 of the 5 good emperors Tiberius, Trajan, Hadrian, and Marcus Aurelius (but not Nerva, as he only ruled for 2 years). Diocletian is a good dark horse candidate, since he pulled the empire out of a downward spiral (no emperor lasting more than 2 years over more than 50). Constantine, though, I think is a pass, since he's in between Rome and Byzantium, and so not truly of either. The Christianity thing throws a bit of a wrench in his Roman-ness in my eyes as well.
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Solver
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Apolyton Duke Of Something
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Latvia, Riga
Sep 2000
time: 07:19
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quote:
I don't see how Stalin was any less offensive then as he is now. As for your first arguement, Russia had the majority of power in the USSR. So, I don't see any problem with any Soviet leader being a leader of the Russians. |
Very simple. People in Western countries are quite unlikely to be really offended by Stalin being in the game. They have not directly suffered from him. And Civ1 was simply not available in the USSR - no games were. In 1995, when Civ2 was released, a computer was still a pretty rare thing over here, and there were definitely no games except a few places of pirated games being sold. In fact, here they started selling legal games about 2 years ago, and still sell few.
In other words, when Civ1 came out, there was a nearly zero chance of anyone from the USSR getting his hands on it, and obviously Microprose couldn't know it would collapse soon. Now, though, when players in former USSR will be playing Civ4 as well, there will be tons of those who may be offended by Stalin. There are, after all, many people here whose family members Stalin ordered sent to Siberia or shot.
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xen001
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Germany. -------Hitler. Okay he was a bad leader, but he was a big part of the German Evolution. He did great things, very evil things, but still great things. Besides most of us wanna have the chance to kick his butt.
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xen001
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I understand that we have to take into consideration the sensibilities of the majority of gamers. I respect that, well I take heart that we have a very active modding community here that will take on issues and make modules for a greater civ-ing experience.
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04-07-2005 23:34
(sort of, at least)
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