11-07-2005 03:42									#31
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Jon has a point, confidence is very, very important. But it's not THE thing. THE thing is, IMO, knowing how to behave yourself - that includes being gentle, polite and caring.

Good macho looks and a muscled body might be nice to get you one-night-sex girls at the discos or whatever, but it's not a good way to get real romantic relationships. However, even if you have below average looks but know how to listen and know how to, well, be a friend and help someone out, you will not have a problem getting into a relationship and being valued highly. Moreover, if you know how to behave around woman (be courteous, don't curse, etc.) then you will also be greatly liked by most random women that you have limited interaction with (co-workers, customers, etc.)

	11-07-2005 03:45									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Az well, lucky you. Never happened to me, I am a shite dancer.

werd. and your first post was spot on too

the thing about talking to birds in clubs though is that you can't really hear what's been said, which is good because it means that often very little talking gets done, but can be bad when you're being asked 20 questions and you ain't got clue what she's on about. i've had so many conversations which have gone something like this.

her: hi i'm (name), blah blah blah welshness blah blah blah welshness blah....

me: nod and smile, 'yeah/nah/innit', nod and smile

(repeat for 20 minutes)

	11-07-2005 03:49									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Solver Jon has a point, confidence is very, very important. But it's not THE thing. THE thing is, IMO, knowing how to behave yourself - that includes being gentle, polite and caring.

nope

I know lots of men who arne't gently, polite, and caring who do fairly good for themselves

(did you not read what I wrote before)

and I am not talking about 1 night stands..

JM

	11-07-2005 03:53									#34
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You said

quote: men who seem to be pretty bad (like fat, annoying, unattractive, not all that interesting) but who are confident, do OK (or even sometimes well)

So are you implying that confidence helps them even if they have such defining negative feautures as not being able to behave? In female eyes, that's much worse than being unattractive or uninteresting. Maybe I got lucky with knowing the females I do, but they hate, most of all, hypocritical men, rude men and men who can't be good friends. They see inconfidence as a disadvantage, but not as big as the things I mentioned.

	11-07-2005 03:55									#35
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actually, I should add that I do know women who go for men who aren't self confident

but it generally seems like they think that the men in question should be confident (about being attractive, being talented, etc)

JM

	11-07-2005 04:03									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Solver You said quote: men who seem to be pretty bad (like fat, annoying, unattractive, not all that interesting) but who are confident, do OK (or even sometimes well) So are you implying that confidence helps them even if they have such defining negative feautures as not being able to behave? In female eyes, that's much worse than being unattractive or uninteresting. Maybe I got lucky with knowing the females I do, but they hate, most of all, hypocritical men, rude men and men who can't be good friends. They see inconfidence as a disadvantage, but not as big as the things I mentioned.

yep, I know plenty of men who don't behave at all, but have women for long legths of time (it is true that they get a lot of women who don't put up when their 'not behaving' for long, but there are also women who do put up with it, or don't see it)

now it is true that most women do care about those things, but that isn't the first thing they look for, because most I know end up dating a number of guys who aren't those three things but do have confidence (and then break up after not too long)

if it was a prime factor, then I would see very different behavior then I do (I have lived in Oregon, Maryland, and Minnesota in the last 14 years)

also, of the number that end up breaking up with a number of guys over them not being polite, caring or gentle; most don't end up with guys who are exceptionally polite, caring or gentle, rather just ones who aren't terrible at those points

in fact, I would go so far to say that I have not known one woman, ever, who has (from what I have seen) dated a man primarily becuase he was polite, gentle, and caring

you seem to know an odd section of women, maybe you are from the philipines?

Jon Miller

	11-07-2005 04:07									#37
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It's just that cordiality and caring are valued highly by women in our parts of the world .

To be honest, I don't get women who put up with bad behaviour from their husbands/boyfriends. I don't get women who put up with drinking or such things. Worst of all, physical violence. I'm not talking severe beatings, but even slapping. To hit a woman one says to love is, well, terrible.

quote: now it is true that most women do care about those things, but that isn't the first thing they look for, because most I know end up dating a number of guys who aren't those three things but do have confidence (and then break up after not too long)

Maybe that's the reason they break up? Maybe they do, after all, want a man who can also be a good friend on whose shoulder she can cry if the need be?

	11-07-2005 04:20									#38
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I said it was the reason they broke up

so they do want it, but it isn't what attracts them to guys

it is just what they require to stay in a relationship

the two are different things..

and a guy can not be gentle/polite/caring and still never beat, drink to excess, or slap...

gentle/polite/caring /= beat/drinktoexcess/cheat

Jon Miller

	11-07-2005 04:28									#39
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Nope, I'm afraid you've lost me JM...

	11-07-2005 04:47									#40
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for example, I would say that a guy who always puts down his significant other is not polite/gentle/caring

yet he is not slapping her, cheating on her, nor drinking to excess..

JM

	11-07-2005 06:02									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler [Lancer mode] [/Lancer mode]

Damn good idea Zkrib! Now why didn't I think of that?

	11-07-2005 11:11									#42
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ZK - They have a saying about what the Society for Creative Anachronisms calls The War, in western Pennsylvania. It's a yearly party - camp-out - combat, between the East and Central kingdoms (they don't call them that, but it's been years for me). The saying goes that if you cannot get laid at The War, you cannot get laid anywhere.

While you have plenty of fighter jocks who do well enough with the ladies, other people who do quite well are brewmasters, musicians, and jonglers. I have a pleasant Irish Baritone voice, and that caught my wife's attention. Actually, I was interested in someone slightly older, but like most guys - I'm easy.

	11-07-2005 11:21									#43
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quote: You'll probably meet her when you are least expecting it.

Yeah, that's what I've found to be the case. I wasn't even looking at her, but once we both caught on that we were attracted to each other things took off from there.

Another girl, my longterm girlfriend who I'm no longer with, I met through church groups., It works well for mutual interests and common ideals. As a bonus, she could be very passionate at times, but I just wish she would have let me see a little bit more of that passion.

	11-07-2005 12:23									#44
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I met Mrs Horse at happy hour.

	11-07-2005 12:49									#45
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I met Mrs Saras at the seaside when I needed to borrow a lighter.

	11-07-2005 12:55									#46
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quote: the thing about talking to birds in clubs though is that you can't really hear what's been said, which is good because it means that often very little talking gets done, but can be bad when you're being asked 20 questions and you ain't got clue what she's on about. i've had so many conversations which have gone something like this. her: hi i'm (name), blah blah blah welshness blah blah blah welshness blah.... me: nod and smile, 'yeah/nah/innit', nod and smile

Use it to your advantage ( For me it's a really specific nieche of talking to girls who are are friends of your friends' friends - i.e. you already slightly know them ) - Ask her something, anything - If she asks what did you ask in a pleasant manner, ask her again, and this time move her head closer to her ear. It's that time that something non-verbal kicks in, and this "body" energy" is the thing to look out for.

	11-07-2005 15:12									#47
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I met my s.o. at work, about 14 years ago. We've been together for the last 8 years. I've typically met women through school, work, randomly in public, friends and living situations. Basically anywhere where I ran into them and was able to show them my wonderful personality (the hot bod is free for anyone to look at).

Regarding meeting women through organizations etc :

This is a great way to meet people with common interests, thus killing two birds with one stone. Another way to improve your efficiency here is to choose an activity / organization that is likely to provide you with a richer target environment. For instance, I took a year of French at a community college after I got out of the army. By the second semester the class was down to 8, 7 cute girls and me. I ended up dating 3 of the girls and the teacher by the end of the year. Would I have been able to win "the girl" in desperate competition with all of you guys if Apolyton was a real rather than virtual place? Probably not. Choose your ground wisely.

	11-07-2005 15:13									#48
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I'm tempted to buy a lighter and carry it around with me, given the number of girls that come up and ask me for a light. But then I don't really like kissing girls who taste of ashtrays, so it's lose-lose. D'oh!

	11-07-2005 15:15									#49
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use "how about a mint instead?"

	11-07-2005 15:38									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Gibsie I'm tempted to buy a lighter and carry it around with me, given the number of girls that come up and ask me for a light. But then I don't really like kissing girls who taste of ashtrays, so it's lose-lose. D'oh!

I've had this advice before and dismissed it on the same grounds.

	11-07-2005 16:14									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Gibsie I'm tempted to buy a lighter and carry it around with me, given the number of girls that come up and ask me for a light. But then I don't really like kissing girls who taste of ashtrays, so it's lose-lose. D'oh!

According to an ex-Mormon friend of mine, "If she smokes, she pokes."

I didn't have the heart to tell him that outside of Utah, they almost all "poke".

	11-07-2005 19:18									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Az Use it to your advantage...

well duh...what do you think these 'conversations' lead to...

	11-07-2005 23:54									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison I've had this advice before and dismissed it on the same grounds.

I've given up on my hopes of finding a girl who doesn't smoke.

every single woman in my city smokes. (a slight exaggeration, but only slight)

	11-07-2005 23:57									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident I've given up on my hopes of finding a girl who doesn't smoke. every single woman in my city smokes. (a slight exaggeration, but only slight)

go into the tutoring business. get a kid who doesnt smoke, become their role-model, and when they're old enough to date, bam!

its a long term investment plan.

	12-07-2005 00:03									#55
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kids start smoking around 12 or 13 where I live.

Yeah I could start brainwa... I mean tutoring around 12. But then I have to wait 6 years until she's legal.

and I was kidding. It would be wrong to influence kids.

	12-07-2005 01:32									#56
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girls smoke so much becuase it helps them stay thin...

JM

	12-07-2005 02:11									#57
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Yeah, cancer does that to people.

	12-07-2005 02:11									#58
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When I went and saw my last girly, the stress of dumping me meant she smoked a tonne. I didn't like tasting it on her lips at all.

Still, it's better they smoke than with loads of girls round here I know who have chlamydia. It's like a %&@#ing epidemic. Or maybe endemic?

	12-07-2005 02:13									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller girls smoke so much becuase it helps them stay thin... JM

they think it helps them stay thin. It's just something they tell themselves.

It's a shame. I see fat people smoke because they think they will become thin. My cousin tried it, but she doesn't smoke anymore thankfully. She realized it wasn't making her thin. She's pretty hefty.

	12-07-2005 02:14									#60
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quote: well duh...what do you think these 'conversations' lead to..

Overconsumption of alcohol and sobbing in the toilet?