12-07-2005 13:18									#31
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Barinthus I also knew girls who wanted to experience being on roofie

They sound perfect for some of the guys on this forum!

	12-07-2005 13:58									#32
	Got spare money?

I was listening to a program on ABC radio in Australia (government run network, mostly criticised for liberal, left wing views when criticised) that talked about rape of children in South Africa by children (ie 7 yo boys raping girls) etc and programs being run to reeducate these boys. The problem was widespread and a number of groups were setup in the cities of SA to address the problem. So the attitudes expressed in the article are no surprise as these attitudes extend also to much longer children also.

	12-07-2005 14:14									#33
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Dissident I just thought the article looked to be feministly biased. And some feminists do believe pregnancy is a disease.

Reference?

	12-07-2005 14:16									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Lancer Still, my wife and I don't mess around, we're a biological closed loop. It's not our problem whether such attitudes spread or not. Most people are aware of AIDS, yet they behave like they do anyway. I say, that's their choice, if it kills em, well too bad for them. We need to put more money into AIDS education, and help rape victims and the like, but for 99%...They shouldn't have done what they did, they knew the risks, I shouldn't pay the price. I'm a diabetic and I need to pay my own insulin or die. I didn't do anything to get diabetes, yet I'm to get taxed to pay for AIDS victims medicine? People who, for the most part, brought it on themselves? I got my own problems...

An unchecked AIDS epidemic à la South Africa's might cost you alot more than some extra tax for antiretrovirals.

	12-07-2005 14:19									#35
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Will we have an unchecked AIDS epidemic ala SA or is the spread of AIDS much less here?

	12-07-2005 14:33									#36
	Full PM-box? Change here!

You might have if antiretrovirals weren't handed out practically for free.

	12-07-2005 14:47									#37
	Put an end to popups!

If they hadn't given them out, the culture would have been alot different, and that would bring an end to the epidemic. I suppose that will be the result in SA. Millions will die of aids, a new, non sexually oriented culture will emerge among the survivors. They might dedicate their lives to higher pursuits, philosophy, the arts, religion and science. Social conservatism would return, and a new age of reason emerge to replace the shallow popcorn culture of today. Rape among 7 year olds would be a thing of the forgotten past...

Isn't evolution great?

	12-07-2005 15:11									#38
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Last Conformist You might have if antiretrovirals weren't handed out practically for free.

I thought that anti-retrovirals helped the survival rate from AIDS, but had no effect (other than perhaps a negative one) on transmission.

	12-07-2005 15:20									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Lancer If they hadn't given them out, the culture would have been alot different, and that would bring an end to the epidemic. I suppose that will be the result in SA. Millions will die of aids, a new, non sexually oriented culture will emerge among the survivors. They might dedicate their lives to higher pursuits, philosophy, the arts, religion and science. Social conservatism would return, and a new age of reason emerge to replace the shallow popcorn culture of today. Rape among 7 year olds would be a thing of the forgotten past...

Wanna bet?

	12-07-2005 15:22									#40
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Sikander I thought that anti-retrovirals helped the survival rate from AIDS, but had no effect (other than perhaps a negative one) on transmission.

Rather the reverse, in fact. They don't stop you from dying, just make it more drawn out (with luck, you can live more-or-less symptom-free for decades on them), but by knocking down virus levels they decrease the risk of transmission, but to sexual partners and from mother to child.

Edit: That's per instance of intercourse or childbirth, of course. If you continue to screw around with non-infecteds when on retrovirals during the extra years they give you, you may compensate for the reduced efficiency of transmission with more chances to transmit.

	12-07-2005 15:42									#41
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Last Conformist Rather the reverse, in fact. They don't stop you from dying, just make it more drawn out (with luck, you can live more-or-less symptom-free for decades on them), but by knocking down virus levels they decrease the risk of transmission, but to sexual partners and from mother to child.

No, this is what I meant. You survive longer but you are still infectious. I'm glad to hear that the instances of transmission are reduced though. But simply handing out free retrovirals is still poor policy in the absence of a full program including whatever counseling is necessary to change behaviors that are likely to result in more infections.

	12-07-2005 15:56									#42
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Sikander But simply handing out free retrovirals is still poor policy in the absence of a full program including whatever counseling is necessary to change behaviors that are likely to result in more infections.

That's true with one important exception; giving infected expectant mothers a few heavy shots of antiretrovirals drastically reduce the risk of transmission to the child.

	12-07-2005 16:31									#43
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Last Conformist Wanna bet?

What do you see wrong with my reasoning?

	12-07-2005 17:04									#44
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

A big problem is that the leaders of many African countries don't care about promoting morality and fighting AIDS.

Richard Mugabe.. nuff said.

Swaziland has the highest poverty AND AIDS per capita in Africa. It is lead by a man who has 12 wives and a world-class antique car collection.

	12-07-2005 17:07									#45
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Lancer What do you see wrong with my reasoning?

People don't work that way.

Now, you did not answer my question.

	12-07-2005 17:47									#46
	Remove this text

quote: Richard Mugabe.. nuff said.

Who's he?

	12-07-2005 18:09									#47
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: Richard Mugabe.. nuff said. Who's he?

Google finds a reference to a brother of Robert Mugabe of that name, but the document can't be accessed.

I've think I've got nigeria mails from someone calling himself "Richard Mugabe", but I may be misremembering.

	12-07-2005 21:09									#48
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Lancer Still, my wife and I don't mess around, we're a biological closed loop. It's not our problem whether such attitudes spread or not. Most people are aware of AIDS, yet they behave like they do anyway. I say, that's their choice, if it kills em, well too bad for them. We need to put more money into AIDS education, and help rape victims and the like, but for 99%...They shouldn't have done what they did, they knew the risks, I shouldn't pay the price. I'm a diabetic and I need to pay my own insulin or die. I didn't do anything to get diabetes, yet I'm to get taxed to pay for AIDS victims medicine? People who, for the most part, brought it on themselves? I got my own problems...

People who brought it onto themselves, eh?

Fine, let's withdraw all sympathy for those who never exercise, and never diet right and then suffer from a serious heart attack. Let's blame them for having the heart attack, and thus undeserving of our sympathy.

In fact, there are plenty of diseases and injuries whose victims we can turn a cold shoulder against because often, those diseases and injuries are a result of neglect or ignorance of the victim.

	12-07-2005 21:22									#49
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by bfg9000 Swaziland has the highest poverty AND AIDS per capita in Africa.

OTOH, Botswana is probably the African country where the citizens are the richest (large diamond mines were found shortly after the independance, and the money pours to all Botswanese except the Bushmen), the political leadership is reasonable, the anti-AIDS caöpaign is oönipresent, and yet the country has among the highest AIDS rates in Africa as well.

OTOH, Senegal is nothing near fantastically rich for African standards, and AIDS is firmly kept in check there.

The problem is really, really complex.

	13-07-2005 00:12									#50
	Remove this text

quote: People who brought it onto themselves, eh?

Most cases, people contract because of their own behaviour. The truly sad cases are the ones where a child contracts AIDS, through no fault of his own, or whether someone contracts it through a blood transfusion.

The third category would be someone who's partner was unfaithful and contracted AIDS, and passed it on to the faithful partner.

I don't have much sympathy for the folks who contracted AIDS through their own actions. It's pretty simple to me. You don't screw around, you aren't going to contract AIDS.

	13-07-2005 00:16									#51
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: OTOH, Senegal is nothing near fantastically rich for African standards, and AIDS is firmly kept in check there. The problem is really, really complex.

Religions: Muslim 94%, indigenous beliefs 1%, Christian 5% (mostly Roman Catholic)

http://www.countries-1.com/countries/sg.htm

Complex, eh?

	13-07-2005 00:17									#52
	Suffering from ads?

...Unless they're not aware of the dangers, which might easily be the case for many people in third world countries.

Edit: X-post; comment was to Ben's previous post.

	13-07-2005 00:24									#53
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Religions: Muslim 94%, indigenous beliefs 1%, Christian 5% (mostly Roman Catholic) http://www.countries-1.com/countries/sg.htm Complex, eh?

Your point being, Muslims are less likely to be sexually reckless than Christians?

	13-07-2005 00:55									#54
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Unless they're not aware of the dangers, which might easily be the case for many people in third world countries.

True, if they've been lied to and told that condoms will protect them from AIDS, I can see why they would be so furious with them.

	13-07-2005 00:59									#55
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Your point being, Muslims are less likely to be sexually reckless than Christians?

Perhaps so. But there are examples of Christian countries, Uganda in particular that have also seen dropping rates. The only thing Uganda would have in common with the Muslim countries is that they both have stern deterrents against promiscuity.

	13-07-2005 01:22									#56
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I doubt Islam per se has too much to do with it - ME countries have very low aids rates (or so they report), whereas places like Sudan and Mali have pretty high.

	13-07-2005 01:23									#57
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Sudan is pretty evenly split between Muslims and Christians, but Mali is something I didn't know.

	13-07-2005 01:26									#58
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Yes, complex. Sexual promiscuity is a reality in most of western Africa, despite western Africa being largely Muslim. Men have a nagging tendancy at feeling that it is normal to have mistresses.

The promiscuity is probably not nearly as terrible as in South Africa (I'm not aware of a systematic rape problem in Senegal), but it's there nonetheless.

	13-07-2005 01:27									#59
	Tired of ads?

From your Link:

Mali
Religions: Muslim 90%, indigenous beliefs 9%, Christian 1%

	13-07-2005 01:28									#60
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Arafat died of AIDS.

Brontosauruses were thin at one end, very thick in the middle and then thin again at the far end.

Those are my two theories, I own them, and all that they are too.