12-07-2005 05:30									#1
	Thoughts on BOH and the TNA... Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

From the correspondence today - I think we may need to reflect seriously on where we are going with the TNA. I don't know if Paddy is roleplaying and deliberately trying to pi$$ us off, or whether he is as really volatile and clued out as he appeared in today's note. Either way - I am having serious doubts - even if it strictly a matter of how much fun we will have in this game. Correspondence such as his is not fun.

So - some options:

1, Hold our noses and continue as planned (maybe using Euphorica to do some mediation.)

2. Stick it out for the next while - remain in the alliance - but not commit any more troops.

3. Back out of the alliance in the near term. (we could do it immediately - or at least wait until BOH actually commits units to the battle.)

And 3 would have two options - back out to neutrality. Or back out to an alliance with AM, LB, and even possibly DR. But if 3 wins - we can hold that poll later.

The other thought is maybe that Paddy's ranting and raving is all part of a roleplay effort to get us to back out - thus being able to trigger an attack on us. But that seems really far-fetched, unless they have devious plans in place with AM.

	12-07-2005 06:44									#2
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I'm holding out for now. I think we need to send a no-nonsense message smacking them upside the head for their selfish way of thinking about this and re-explaining the whole "let's keep DR away from the pointy pikes" thing.

	12-07-2005 07:13									#3
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Not only that, there are other considerations.

If DR & LB are doing a tech alliance, then for one thing, that would go a long way with explaining all of LB's pease posts, they don't want to lose their tech partner

Another thing, While DR is in GA, it would be very profitable for LB to send them a small amount of gold, so that DR can have a much higher tech rate. DR;s econony, while in GA, outstrips our greatest output. It is NOT Unconcevable that DR would use this to get to Chivalry first.

An even greater reason to try to keep the tech costs as high for Feudalism.

Tell them that, too.

E_T

	12-07-2005 07:58									#4
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Paddy has finally swallowed his pride. From the latest correspondance:

quote: Your team, thus E_T, have a very valid point on the matter of the tech, and I was allowing both points 1 & 2 to rule my passion. In this it really would have been appreciatted by the Horde if we could have had this discussion at some time before the matter, not being told after the fact. My error in expecting that teams of our size etc were stuck when one player is away.

He's quite right we could have discussed contingencies for each tech beforehand. And also quite right about us being right. So, continue.

	12-07-2005 11:30									#5
	Re: Thoughts on BOH and the TNA... Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Beta The other thought is maybe that Paddy's ranting and raving is all part of a roleplay effort to get us to back out - thus being able to trigger an attack on us. But that seems really far-fetched, unless they have devious plans in place with AM.

You know, it reads like he was drunk. Classic reactions of someone who was really in thier cups. Also, the later appology seems like he had a chance to sleep it off, think about it, without the fog of drink and realize what was really going on.

E_T

	12-07-2005 12:01									#6
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BoH going Feudalistic Gov might have serious implications for this poll.discussion. See my latest post in BoH thread about their Government.

E_T

	12-07-2005 14:53									#7
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We have to reach out for better allies than BOH but stick to the alliance for now. Euphorica is a good choice, the LB might be lost for us if E_T is right with his (plausible) assumptions.

Although, if DR is eradicated (again, IF), the LB are in need for a new ally, which could be us. We need to lay the foundations for future alliances now!

	12-07-2005 18:24									#8
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I think it's clear that BoH will continue this style of play and diplomacy (if you want to call it that) throughout the game. If they are rubbing us the wrong way, I'm pretty sure they are doing the same to others.

Once resistance starts galvanizing against BoH, then we can scheme and plan cross purpose to BoH's -- just let another nation take the lead against them.

I voted "stick it out a few more turns" -- at least until DR's GA is over.

	12-07-2005 22:54									#9
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Stick it out for a few more turns.

We need to see if BOH is going to actually fight against DR. What of Eu? They seemed very set on removing DR. I don't think we can afford to send any more troops. We have done what we commited to. Both BOH and Eu knew that we would not be sending many horses. We are done with the fighting. Our units should be used to protect our lands.

Regarding Lost Boys and DR tech alliance. Maybe but why would 1889 offer to tell me of DR troop movements? Maybe I will ask him for screenies and details. See where that gets us. (to be done tonight) I would much rather keep the peace and build an alliance with the Lost Boys.

Re: Paddy's bizarre Bx
I don't know what to make of it. Drunkeness was suggested. But, he obviously sent one rant close to midnight, slept, and continued his rant in the morning. None of his other posts show this behavior. I am confused and will try to get to the bottom of it.

Let me hear some ideas on this b 1 tch slap letter to BOH. It does not need to be sent now. But BOH needs to know that they do not run this alliance. We are Babylon not the whore of the Horde!

	13-07-2005 07:20									#10
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It is over.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...085#post3910085

I might be cutting off my nose to spite my face but I say that we slay that damned BOH troop that is in our lands NOW.

	13-07-2005 07:46									#11
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Not suprised to see ChrisiusMaximus leading the latest "combative diplomacy" oh so typical of BoH Feudal style.

I guess we are the target now...

	13-07-2005 07:50									#12
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Traitors. Whoever said Paddy was looking for cassus belli, you were right. They were just digging for excuses, whatever they thought that would buy them.

	13-07-2005 07:53									#13
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Don't quite understand why one needs to invent a reason to justify action in a game but okay...

So not being one of the more active Babylonian citizens, am I correct to assume that BoH will try to get DR and others to attack us?

	13-07-2005 07:54									#14
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If we become the targets - I say that we reveal to the world ALL of our secret talks. Show the world how unreasoned they are.

I have contacted Eu and already got a response see that thread.

	13-07-2005 07:54									#15
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Who knows. But the timing of this is just a little suspicious. I'm unsure of whether they have any deal with DR at all yet, but they're certainly choosing to back out just before they'd have to get bloody like the rest of us...

	13-07-2005 08:02									#16
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suspicious? No it's obvious. Deal or no deal with DR this was ALWAYS their plan.

Everyone is lucky this is a computer game. If this was Risk or another board game, the pieces would be well across the room by now.

I love a game that can get you blood boiling.

	13-07-2005 08:05									#17
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I see two scenarios here...

1. They're playing it by ear and decided they had to announce now. Not sure why. They know we sent Feud unaccepted and that if they waited till the save passed us, we might have accepted.

2. They had a preexisting deal with DR and were pressured to go public now, so that there would be no turning back. BOH might want Feud, but DR would want BOH forced public much more than Feud.

	13-07-2005 08:06									#18
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Not a very well thought out plan. It seems they missed every opportunity to manipulate us and decided to focus on bizarre issues -- publically -- which doesn't seem to help their cause... I'll take that back if the signed a deal against us with DR before this silly diplomacy stuff.

x-post with Kloreep

	13-07-2005 08:26									#19
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Klo - just to clarify - we have not accepted the Feudalism trade yet??? Tell me this is true. Puuulleeaaase. I must have missed this in all this scambling the last day or so.

If yes - what are they thinking???

	13-07-2005 08:26									#20
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And oh yes - anyone want to change their vote in this poll.

	13-07-2005 08:30									#21
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We didn't accept.

No idea what they're thinking. That's what makes me suspicious about #2...

	13-07-2005 10:08									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Shogun Gunner Don't quite understand why one needs to invent a reason to justify action in a game but okay... So not being one of the more active Babylonian citizens, am I correct to assume that BoH will try to get DR and others to attack us?

You need an excese, no matter how trumped up it is, to betray an ally. It lends an 'air of legitamancy' to you actions, no matter how much it stinks.

You know, I was thinking, the other day, how much Paddy's e-mail rants reminded me of Germany's Ribbentop and his 'style' of Diplomacy.

E_T

	13-07-2005 10:11									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Beta And oh yes - anyone want to change their vote in this poll.

I have yet to vote.

E_T

	13-07-2005 10:13									#24
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quote: Originally posted by skrobism If we become the targets - I say that we reveal to the world ALL of our secret talks. Show the world how unreasoned they are. I have contacted Eu and already got a response see that thread.

And they have a RoP with AM.... How convinient....

E_T

	13-07-2005 13:41									#25
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quote: Originally posted by E_T You know, I was thinking, the other day, how much Paddy's e-mail rants reminded me of Germany's Ribbentop and his 'style' of Diplomacy. E_T

You know what, I was thinking the exact same thing. (Though voicing comparisons to Nazis is a sure way to end your career here in Germany, so I thought it was better to keep that opinion to me)

Especially the 1938/39 Czech annexiation has a very similar touch to it. Ask for more than you´re supposed to get, the DOW if denied. If accepted, ask for more. It works.

Let´s just hope the end carries the same resemblance than the beginning...

	14-07-2005 01:36									#26
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Reading all the different threads. Wow it would have been nice to have a real Summit instead of Paddy throwing bombs via email and then having ChrisiusMaximus stage a coup with Paddy out of town.

Is the TNA for real or not? Is this a prank to fool DR and the world? Sure would have been nice for a friendly heads up.

I know these are tense times. I promise that I will stop posting in public for now.

Beta (or Kloreep), you need to be our official/single voice to the TNA and the world.

Beta, E_T, and Kloreep. Thanks for all the time spent in chats.

	14-07-2005 01:47									#27
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ok. just a few more posts but nothing policy related.

	14-07-2005 05:57									#28
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Just a bit of advice when posting to a public thread like that keep your cards close. i felt that we were sharing too much information. Or go to the opposite extreme and share tons of information all of which is false.

Whomever has the best relationship with Paddy right now needs to get on MSN messanger and talk to him.

Specifically we need to bring up what he means by "a lck of commitment" from us, Didn't we tell them up front we weren't sure we could bring a lot of troops to bare?

Try to get him talking without us giving away too much info. Record the MSN conversation and post it here. We have some pretty good experienced diplomats and intell people. We maybe able to learn a lot from that conversation.

I suggest we also do the same with Euphorica. And not emails, emails give you too much time to think in reply. get them in messanger or in a mIRC chatroom. Watch what your saying and try to get them to talk too much.

Thats my two cents,

	14-07-2005 07:10									#29
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Note: I see you guys have talked to snoopdog at Eup, good start, he seemed pleasent enough but may have been kissing our arses because he of course suspects that the Horde is pulling out of a war they will have a hard time fighting with out the Horde.

We need to try something with Paddy along the same lines. And remind him we said up front our help would be minimal, if that is indeed true.........

	14-07-2005 07:52									#30
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Words of wisdom, Con.

E_T