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St Leo is offline St Leo
King of Scenario League
Member of the Apolyton Social Democratic Party
Jul 2005
time: 00:37
  Old Post 18-07-2005 23:40 Visit St Leo<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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quote:
Woman to defy church law
Plans to be ordained in Ganonoque

It's a rights issue, B.C. lecturer says


DIRK MEISSNER
CANADIAN PRESS

VICTORIA—An English literature instructor from Vancouver Island says she will be ordained as Canada's first woman Roman Catholic priest in a ceremony conducted on the waters of the St. Lawrence River.

Michele Birch-Conery of Parksville said yesterday she expects the church to threaten her with excommunication, but she believes she is fighting a human rights issue.

Birch-Conery, 65, is one of eight woman from North America who will attend a special ordination service July 25 on the river between the United States and Canada, where no church diocese has jurisdiction.

The proceedings will be held near the Ontario vacation community of Gananoque.

Birch-Conery said she wants to become part of the struggle to change church canon law that prohibits women from entering the priesthood.

"We're taking a stand that to keep that canon law which says women cannot be ordained is a violation of our human rights as women in the church," she said. "We'll have to see what it unfolds into. I don't know where it is going to go."

The church hierarchy, from the Vatican down, officially rejects women priests, but there is a movement within the Catholic church, including unnamed bishops, who quietly support the efforts of the women, she said.

"People privately are all over the lot on this issue," Birch-Conery said. "If the church continues to hold these stands people will be saying, ` you can't do that,' this is against our civil rights, our human rights."

The Victoria diocese of the Catholic church could not be reached for comment.

The Vatican, which doesn't allow women to serve as priests, excommunicated seven women ordained in 2002 in Europe. At least two male Catholic bishops secretly participated in the European ceremony, Birch-Conery said.

The names of the bishops will not be made public until their deaths, she said.

Three of the women ordained in 2002 will be part of the Ontario ceremony later this month, Birch-Conery said.

"The Vatican is in a tough position, as are we, so hopefully we get it all sorted out as time goes by," she said. "Until we address this gender issue we're actually going nowhere in this church, except round and round in circles."

Birch-Conery said she thinks Pope Benedict XVI knows about the July 25 ceremony.

"Of course he knows," she said. "He's the person who excommunicated the first seven (women priests) in 2002. It was Benedict, who was then Cardinal (Joseph) Ratzinger."

Birch-Conery, who has spent the last 18 years teaching English literature courses at North Island College in Port Alberni, said she has been involved in the church for most of her life.

She received her doctorate in English literature from the University of Iowa. She writes poetry when she gets the chance.

Birch-Conery said she was born in Vancouver, but left Canada for the United States when she was 23 years old to join a congregation of religious sisters in the United States.

The gender issue in the church also caused her to stay away from religion for years, but her academic background, especially her study of women's rights and equality issues, pulled her back to the church to attempt to force change, she said.

"If I've been teaching women's studies and gender equality all this time, I suppose I should come back in and address these issues," said Birch-Conery.

Birch-Conery said she has attended Catholic churches on Vancouver Island in Parksville, Port Alberni and Duncan.

She said she is willing to conduct some church rites with followers, but doesn't expect to be invited to preach sermons at local churches.


Psst, there is no God and Christianity is a sham. Trying to reform the Catholic Church is a waste of energies better spent elsewhere.
^-^

Kontiki is offline Kontiki
Settler
Canada
Aug 2001
time: 00:37
  Old Post 18-07-2005 23:44
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Don't these women know their place? God wants no part of this sham.

Whaleboy is offline Whaleboy
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Jan 2003
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Good luck to her . BK can run, but he can't hide. Sooner or later, breasts are gonna get him!

DanS is offline DanS
Emperor
Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
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  Old Post 18-07-2005 23:45 Visit DanS's homepage!
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I don't believe females can be ordained Roman Catholic priests. Just isn't possible. This lady is deluded, sadly.

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
Emperor
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Oct 2002
time: 21:37
  Old Post 18-07-2005 23:52
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What about the rights of other folks in the church to practice their religion?

If she wants to be ordained, she should become an Anglican, that's all there is to it. Hardly a violation of her rights; she has chosen to be a part of the Catholic church, she therefore ought to abide by what the church teaches. No one is forcing her to be a Catholic.

Secondly, this thread has a real personal connection. The bishop of Victoria, the former Monsignor Richard Gagnon is a friend of mine, who taught my first RCIA class two years ago. I'm confident he'll have an excellent rebuttal.

Combat Ingrid is offline Combat Ingrid
Chieftain
Satan's Majestic Empire
Nov 2001
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  Old Post 18-07-2005 23:55
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quote:

apocalypse

n 1: a cosmic cataclysm in which God destroys the ruling powers of evil 2: the last book of the New Testament; contains visionary descriptions of heaven and of conflicts between good and evil and of the end of the world; attributed to Saint John the apostle [syn: Revelation, Revelation of Saint John the Divine, Apocalypse, Book of Revelation]

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:37
  Old Post 19-07-2005 00:01
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I expect our dear Ratzi to excommunicate her hastily

Lancer is offline Lancer
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Apr 1999
time: 05:37
  Old Post 19-07-2005 00:43
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Ban her BAN HER

trickey is offline trickey
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Mar 2002
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  Old Post 19-07-2005 02:21
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Bah, since when do people have a say in religion? If they want to practice a religion, follow the damn rules. If they don't like the rules, it might be time to reconsider their choice of religion.

Last Conformist is offline Last Conformist
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Jul 2003
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  Old Post 19-07-2005 02:26
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If she doesn't want to obey the Pope, she's got no business being a Catholic.

Stupid people

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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  Old Post 19-07-2005 02:54
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Given that Catholics believe in an omnipotent, omnipresent creator, I don't have a problem with the much more minor issue of believing that women shouldn't be ordained priests.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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quote:
Originally posted by Last Conformist
If she doesn't want to obey the Pope, she's got no business being a Catholic.

Dr Strangelove is offline Dr Strangelove
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Jan 1970
time: 00:37
  Old Post 19-07-2005 03:05
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Who is going to ordain her? Doesn't ordination require the offices of a bishop in the Roman Catholic Church? Wouldn't the Pope want to excommunicate him also?

DRoseDARs is offline DRoseDARs

Prince
"My god, it's full of peas..."
Jul 2002
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  Old Post 19-07-2005 03:06
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I say kill them all and let God sort them out...

quote:
...attributed to Arnaud-Armaury, the Abbot of Citeaux, and "spiritual advisor" to the Albigensian Crusade.

Pope Innocent III ordered the Albigensian Crusade, to purge southern France of the Cathari heretics. It began in the summer of 1209, with their first target - the town of Beziers. The Catholic faithful in Beziers refused to give up the Catharis among themselves. The crusaders invaded. When Arnaud-Amaury was asked whom to kill he replied "Kill them all. God will know his own." They did. The crusaders slaughtered nearly everyone in town, over 20,000, either burned or clubbed to death. Thus they achieved their goal of killing the estimated 200 heretics who were hiding in the town among the Catholic faithful. The brutal crusade continued on for the next twenty years. Eventually the Catholics devised a new approach for dealing with the remaining Cathari heretics in France. It was called "the Inquisition"

Dr Strangelove is offline Dr Strangelove
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quote:
Originally posted by DRoseDARs
I say kill them all and let God sort them out...



Actually the good abbott was rewarded for his efforts byhaving a position created by the Pope just for him, the post of "Inquisitor". Let that be a lesson to us all, hard work and initiative don't go unrewarded.

DRoseDARs is offline DRoseDARs

Prince
"My god, it's full of peas..."
Jul 2002
time: 21:37
  Old Post 19-07-2005 03:36
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Having upward mobility in the Catholic Church by slaughtering thousands



...unless you have a vagina, in which case you need to get your ass back in the kitchen, *****.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:37
  Old Post 19-07-2005 03:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Who is going to ordain her? Doesn't ordination require the offices of a bishop in the Roman Catholic Church? Wouldn't the Pope want to excommunicate him also?


It hinted at that. In the European ordaining of female priests, two male priests were there (who I'd guess ordained them), but their names aren't being released. I think it's similar for this ceremony.

Good luck ladies

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
Emperor
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Oct 2002
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  Old Post 19-07-2005 03:53
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quote:

Who is going to ordain her? Doesn't ordination require the offices of a bishop in the Roman Catholic Church? Wouldn't the Pope want to excommunicate him also?


Not sure. I think I know why she is going to Quebec though, because that is probably where the bishop resides.

You are right that a bishop is necessary to perform the ordination, but, as in the French case that has already been cited, all of them will be excommunicated.

Secondly, all ordinations have to be publicly announced and recorded. Having an ordination, without publicly naming the bishops, is not going to be recognised by the Catholic church. You can't 'secretly' be ordained.

Chemical Ollie is offline Chemical Ollie
Prince
Bored of this board
Jan 2002
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  Old Post 19-07-2005 04:20
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I hope she knows the DaVinci Code, and the background of it. At least she will know how the wind blows... Or bla bla bla ZZZZZZZZZZ

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
Emperor
United States of America
Jan 1970
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Good for this lady.

quote:
Originally posted by DanS
I don't believe females can be ordained Roman Catholic priests. Just isn't possible. This lady is deluded, sadly.



Hiss to DanS for supporting the status quo.


Rosa Parks wasn't "allowed" to sit down in the bus either.

Rufus T. Firefly is offline Rufus T. Firefly
Prince
is one way of saying it, though I prefer "mensch"
Sep 2000
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  Old Post 19-07-2005 08:08
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I don't think it's possible for a woman to be ordained in the Roman Catholic Church. But there are Catholic splinter groups that will do it. One of them ordained Sinead O'Connor, iirc.

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
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I'm not talking what the POPE says they can and can't do. If her local Roman church says she can do it, more power to her.

The Pope is just going to have to follow and get with the modern times. Rules be damned.

Acts like this push the envelope, in the same way Rosa Parks did when she refused to give her seat up to a white woman.

Others will follow suit.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:37
  Old Post 19-07-2005 08:16 Visit Asher's homepage!
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Catholics are so 19th century.

Get with the times biznatches, we practice safe sex and women have equal rights. It's time to wake up and move on.

Rufus T. Firefly is offline Rufus T. Firefly
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quote:
Originally posted by Ted Striker
I'm not talking what the POPE says they can and can't do. If her local Roman church says she can do it, more power to her.

The Pope is just going to have to follow and get with the modern times. Rules be damned.

Acts like this push the envelope, in the same way Rosa Parks did when she refused to give her seat up to a white woman.

Others will follow suit.


I'm with you, and her, in principle, Ted. But the whole point of the RCC is that it's heirarchical and managed from the top. That's one of the big reasons people did "get with the times -- "the times" being the Protestant Reformation. Staying in the RCC to defy the Pope is a little like joining the Marines in order to do your own thing.

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
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  Old Post 19-07-2005 08:19 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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True, but they need to recognize that people do defy them already.

Alot of the "rules" just seem to be optional, for example contraception, I don't know who follows that rule, even many people in 3rd world countries now ignore it.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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  Old Post 19-07-2005 08:22
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quote:
True, but they need to recognize that people do defy them already.


Yes, and as Rufus pointed out, the people who defy them are called Protestants.

Rufus T. Firefly is offline Rufus T. Firefly
Prince
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  Old Post 19-07-2005 08:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Ted Striker
True, but they need to recognize that people do defy them already.

Alot of the "rules" just seem to be optional, for example contraception, I don't know who follows that rule, even many people in 3rd world countries now ignore it.


Well, I wish some of those folks ignoring it were in the Philippines. Catholicism is killing this country, and the rules on contraception are a big part of that.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuciwalker
quote:
True, but they need to recognize that people do defy them already.


Yes, and as Rufus pointed out, the people who defy them are called Protestants.


You can't be that naive, Kuci . There are PLENTY of nominal Catholics, who call themselves Catholic, but use condoms or are pro-choice (John Kerry would be one of the latter), etc.

These are people who say they are Catholics who really don't follow everything the Pope says. This is a problem the Vatican has to deal with.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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Feb 2001
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  Old Post 19-07-2005 08:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
You can't be that naive, Kuci . There are PLENTY of nominal Catholics, who call themselves Catholic, but use condoms or are pro-choice (John Kerry would be one of the latter), etc.


I know. The difference is that the Pope can't really be expected to exert any authority IRL. But in Church hierarchy fairyland?

DanS is offline DanS
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Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
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Man, some of you are plain clueless about the RCC.

 
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