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Max Webster
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It seems to me that this one of these left-right things. The left screws with capitalism so that majority of Canadians can enjoy moderate fuel prices. Which screws up life for a minority of people. The right says screw the majority. Capitalism comes first and if minority of Canadians enjoy increased wealth than maybe that wealth will spill over to the majority.
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Tingkai
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To find the Northwest Passage
Aug 2001
time: 13:37
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A few things Ontario has that Alberta does't
- real cities, as oppose to big sprawling suburbs with no real downtown
- A dozen or so major universities, compared to maybe two in Alberta
- Nearly four times as many people
- an auto industry
- A film industry
- A shipping industry (canoes don't count)
- Diverse political representation
- Asher
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Max Webster
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Energy_Program. Funny Flubber says the oils sands are going to triple their production in 2015. So seems to me that their is plenty left to go around. So the stripping part seems far fetched.
Now where can I find information about the effects of the NEP on the Albertan economy.
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The oil sands were not considered economic for many many years and it has been within the last 10 years that many previously uneconomic projects have become economic due to better technologies (and more recently better prices. )
There is still "plenty" of oil in Alberta but the majority is in the oilsands and the conventional forms of production are declining. Twenty years ago people did not know if or when there would be significant oilsands production. Even with oilsands coming on stream, my understanding is that this will usually just replace the anticipated losses in conventional production. I'd have to research the actual numbers.
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Flubber
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With a view of the Rockies
Aug 2000
time: 22:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
Related to population size again.
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Sorry Asher but there is more political diversity in pretty much EVERY Canadian province regardless of population size. It seems most other provinces will at a minimum try to rotate the governing party every few years
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notyoueither
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of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Max Webster
Just what did happen with our goverment and Alberta. What are this details of this NEP that Albertans loathe. |
It's very complicated, but the short course...
The killer was a well head tax on energy production, and the attitude that accompanied it.
When being planned, the wise people in Ottawa had no concept that oil prices could go back down after the oil shocks of the 70's.
Just after the NEP was introduced, a combination of factors caused the world price of oil to crash. Alberta's oil has always been on the expensive side to extract. Add the tax on production to a low world price and our oil became very unattractive. Add a nationalising, business unfriendly federal government, and investment in Canada became very unattractive. Combine the two and activity in the oil patch came to a screeching halt.
The majority of jobs (direct economic benefit to the economy and people) are in drilling, exploration, and oil sands development. Shut down the rigs and oil sands development, and you shut down the oil boom.
The NEP and the attitude behind it shut down the rigs and oil sands development.
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And is it true that Quebec and Ontario screwed Alberta? |
Amidst the devastation it was obvious to anyone with more than half a brain that the NEP contributed greatly to what amounted to a depression in Alberta. Appeals were made to the Federal government to repeal the NEP, or at least the well head tax. Those appeals were ignored by the federal Liberals.
Ontario and Quebec did not screw us, but what we perceive to have been 'your government' did, and they did it in an arrogant and at times down right insulting manner. People who lived through it are still angry about it. Their children are angry about it. Their grandchildren will be aware of it, and probably not happy about it.
Imagine a federal tax on auto production on a set dollar per unit produced basis and how that would play in Ontario. Combine that National Auto Policy with a downturn in the international economy and a resulting depression in Southern Ontario and tell me how popular Ottawa (and the people who put the government in Ottawa) would be.
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Personally I think Alberta should share in its wealth with the rest of Canada. I think every province should do this. But not to the detriment of the province sharing. |
We do, and not many serious people have a problem with it. We pay a lot of federal tax that is spent in other parts of the country. No problems with it, since it is just that the wealthy pay more to help those who are not as well off.
The problem was when the feds invented taxes that attacked the heart of our economy.
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If Ottawa was unfair towards Alberta than I truly feel for Alberta. |
Thank you. It is nice to hear an acknowledgement, even if it is just one person.
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Originally posted by Max Webster
Why do Albertans have such a pickle up their butt over Quebec. I know they are an annoying whiny bunch that just want to be different for the sake of being different. But their is got to be more to it. |
By and large we don't have a 'pickle up [our] butt over Quebec' any more than people in other parts of the country would to seeing the Canadian flag trampled.
If there is a peculiar Alberta take on Quebec, it would be the view from a net contributor, and survivor of the NEP  , being somewhat bemused by the prospect of a net receiver making noises about how bad they have it and threatening to leave periodically.
The more politically aware would no doubt be in on the secret of power that unshackled us from the NEP. The West and Quebec assured Mulroney a solid majority. The NEP was repealed. A little later we repeated the feat and we got free trade. Some people are actually aware that the interests of a federal Quebec and Alberta are often the same.
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notyoueither
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of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Starchild
Alberta, a global economic goliath? Honey, you may be a big fish in a small confederation (and dont' forget all those Ontario dollars that bootstrapped you into existence when there was no oil being extracted) but you're not exactly playing in the same league as the Big Boys. |
How exactly did Ontario dollars bootstrap Alberta into existence?
Last edited by notyoueither on 21-07-2005 at 07:01
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Max Webster
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
Which was artificially created due to politics with the auto pact. It could exist anywhere with political incentive like Ontario got. |
I thought Ontario's auto industry existed was because it was right next door to Detroit and the big three. Its a logistics thing with everything involving car making in concentrated spot.
If Detroit was on Albertas border than probably it would have a big car industry.
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Max Webster
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[QUOTE] Originally posted by Tingkai
A few things Ontario has that Alberta does't
I think its rather silly to compare Alberta and Ontario. They both have their negatives and positives. Personally I don't understand why one would hate a province. I just don't understand that mindset.
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Max Webster
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ps.. you Albertans would be so proud. We had a full blown rodeo just down the road from me. No it wasn't a couple of Ontarion's riding a pair of donkeys. We even had some woman rodeo star from Alberta putting on show.
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21-07-2005 00:29
As i pointed out before my riding goes Conservative every time. 
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