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Asher is offline Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
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  Old Post 20-07-2005 19:01 Visit Asher's homepage!
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Alberta: The New Ontario Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

http://www.saturdaynight.ca/feature...m?listing_id=61

Lots of good articles from the Summer 2005 issue of Saturday Night magazine. Got to read them this morning while waiting for an oil change, and they're online as well.

quote:
The New Ontario
In Alberta they call him King Ralph. Increasingly, we are all his subjects. During his 13 years in power, Premier Ralph Klein has presided over Alberta’s breakneck transformation from oilpatch hinterland to global economic Goliath. Canada’s traditional balance of power has reached a tipping point: as its 100th birthday approaches, Alberta is mounting a sustained challenge to Ontario as the leading partner in Confederation


A Tale of Two Cities: Alberta’s civic rivalry — Edmonton versus Calgary — is 100 years old and as nasty as ever.

Market Muscle: Alberta’s economy is so robust, the other provinces anxiously monitor its every move.

Corridor of Power: The 300-kilometre stretch between Edmonton and Calgary is becoming the next southern Ontario.

From Protest to Power: Sooner or later, Alberta-style populism will come to dominate the nation’s political culture.

Alberta versus Ontario: Comparing Alberta and Ontario... By numbers...

Some of the numbers are pretty interesting.
GDP per capita: Alberta is $58,537, Ontario is $41,768
Unemployment: Alberta is 4.2%, Ontario is 6.8%
Non-emergency surgery wait time: Alberta is 4 weeks, Ontario is 4.3 weeks
Volunteerism rates: Alberta is 39%, Ontario is 25%
National Parks area: Alberta has 54,085 sq.km, Ontario hs 2,081 sq.km
Stanley Cups since 1980: Alberta has 6, Ontario has 0 (this is the most important figure of them all)

And for Calgary vs Toronto:
Car insurance: Calgary's average is $1,815, Toronto is $2,655
Monthly transit passes: Calgary is $70, Toronto is $98.75
Bottle of cognac: Calgary: $45.96 for 750 ml, Toronto: $75.15 for 750 ml
Smog alert days in 2004: Calgary: 1, Toronto: 14
Average rent: Calgary: $806/mo, Toronto: $1,052/mo

JohnT is offline JohnT

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Mar 1999
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  Old Post 20-07-2005 19:06
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Congratulations!

It's nice being in that period of time where incomes shoot up, but prices lag in relation. Don't worry - your merchants will soon figure it out.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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Sucks you have to live in the cold.

Asher is offline Asher
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Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Sucks you have to live in the cold.

Supposed to be a nice 75F/24C today.

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Sep 1999
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Che: At least he doesn't have to deal with hurricanes batting down his door every year.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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Better hurricanes than blizzards.

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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Sucks you have to live in the cold.


Not if global warming has its say.

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Ontario is cold too.

Now, if you were comparing Vancouver, then we'd have an argument.

Asher is offline Asher
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Nov 1999
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quote:
The New Ontario: Market Muscle
By Todd Hirsch


Like the family that wins the lottery, Alberta is getting some envious looks from others on the block. After all, Albertans didn’t earn their wealth: it’s an accident of geography that they sit atop massive reserves of crude, and a market anomaly that oil prices are hovering around $50 (U.S.) per barrel. Nor is it the first time Alberta’s lucky numbers have come up. Back in the 1970s, oil prices (adjusted for inflation) were even higher than they are now, but the boom didn’t last. Local bumper stickers prayed: “Please, Lord, let there be another oil boom and we promise not to piss it all away.”

It will be different this time — it already is. Alberta makes up about one-tenth of Canada’s population, but its economy accounts for a disproportionate 14.5 per cent of Canada’s economic output. Its current GDP per capita is $58,537; Ontario’s is $41,768, while Quebec’s is well back at $35,402. Alberta’s four per cent unemployment rate is just over half that of Ontario’s, which is all the more remarkable given Alberta’s rapid population growth: there seem to be jobs for everyone who comes.

Alberta’s immense wealth is changing the dynamics of the national economy. Its appetite for skilled tradespeople has driven wages up nationwide and produced labour shortages in other parts of the country. There are other — for some, more disquieting — distortions to come. The Alberta government will boost health care spending by a whopping 8.6 per cent this year, about five times the rate of inflation in the province. Presumably the money will translate into more generous salaries for doctors and nurses, and better working conditions in the form of new hospital facilities. Other provinces, all competing to attract medical professionals, may be forced to follow suit whether they can afford it or not. Notably, Ontario has reintroduced health care premiums for its citizens, while Alberta has eliminated them for its seniors.

Alberta is also pumping billions into higher education, one of the smartest investments a government can make. A trained workforce, innovations in science and technology, new entrepreneurial ideas — all are essential to diversify any economy and compete globally. Over the next three years, funding for advanced education will increase by 30 per cent to $1.9 billion, or about $589 per person in Alberta. In Ontario, spending on post-secondary education is forecast to reach only $438 per person by 2008.

You could even argue that other provinces hold Alberta back. The Klein government recently pledged to lower corporate taxes, then broke its promise — even though it can easily afford the cut. Why renege? In part because it would really put the screws to Saskatchewan, which is only barely balancing its budget and can’t afford tax cuts. That province’s exodus of people and business to Alberta would only worsen.

Other provinces in similar fiscal situations wouldn’t be amused either. The final slap in the face is that Alberta is debt-free. Ontario still carries a net debt of $145 billion; every year, its interest payments eat up $10 billion, and its prosperity increasingly depends upon Alberta’s. The province holds 80 per cent of this country’s oil, and all the cars and trucks made by Ontario’s powerful auto industry need that oil to keep running. For the time being, Alberta’s economy may be a one-trick pony, but we’re all riding that pony now.

St Leo is offline St Leo
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Jul 2005
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It's going to be 30C in Toronto, 24C in Vancouver, and 26C in Calgary today.

Last Conformist is offline Last Conformist
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Better hurricanes than blizzards.
If Albertan blizzards are the same kind of lameass affairs that Americans call blizzards, they're a good opportunity for a walk in the park with grandma.

Starchild is offline Starchild
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Alberta, a global economic goliath? Honey, you may be a big fish in a small confederation (and dont' forget all those Ontario dollars that bootstrapped you into existence when there was no oil being extracted) but you're not exactly playing in the same league as the Big Boys.

Asher is offline Asher
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quote:
Originally posted by Starchild
Alberta, a global economic goliath? Honey, you may be a big fish in a small confederation (and dont' forget all those Ontario dollars that bootstrapped you into existence when there was no oil being extracted) but you're not exactly playing in the same league as the Big Boys.

You'd be surprised, Starchild.

Ontario didn't bootstrap Alberta into existence by the way, for all of 2 years Alberta received extremely modest subsidies, primarily for the agricultural community.

The oil boom was funded by American dollars, not from Ontario.

That's precisely why the NEP ****ed everything up so badly.

Ontario (and Quebec) nearly wiped Alberta from the map of significance as part of political jockeying, positioning, and stupidity.

The current trends are quite clear -- Alberta's population and economy are both growing much faster than any other province's. It won't be too long before Alberta controls 25% of the GDP with 15% of the population...

JimmyCracksCorn is offline JimmyCracksCorn
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*****-slapping arrogant Ontarians

Flubber is offline Flubber
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
The current trends are quite clear -- Alberta's population and economy are both growing much faster than any other province's. It won't be too long before Alberta controls 25% of the GDP with 15% of the population...


yes and it is unlikely that those trends will reverse . With all the oil sands projects on the books, we are already talking about a tripling of production there by 2015 IIRC. There would probably be even more expansion there but the problem is that the boom is taking up all the construction capacity. Quite frankly Alberta would need many thousands more tradespeople to build everything that people want to build

I find it ironic that a country that still experiences unemployment high enough to be an issue in some regions has a very real labour shortage in other regions. I know that construction companies in Alberta have been recruiting in Candaa's east for the last few years and the number of available skilled tradespeople has pretty much evaporated. To be an unemployed tradesperson in Canada right now, you must be refusing to move because the work is out there . .. lots of it

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25% of Canada's economy isn't anywhere near a global economic goliath. Try 250% of Canada's economy.

Asher is offline Asher
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quote:
Originally posted by Last Conformist
25% of Canada's economy isn't anywhere near a global economic goliath. Try 250% of Canada's economy.

I'll grant it's an exaggeration, but look what Alberta has done in the past 30 years.

It's perhaps the fastest growing, most properous region in the world. And its growth is showing no signs of slowing, in fact the opposite is true...

In terms of the energy market, it's absolutely huge these days. It's like Saudi Arabia, but without the whole middle east nonsense.

Flubber is offline Flubber
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The "problem" will be somewhat self-correcting. More people should go into trades seeing the opportunity and its likely that more people will move to Alberta for the economic opportunity. That will bring

1. people from all over with diverse political beliefs
2. some additional power for Alberta as should garner a greater proportion of electoral seats

The problem though is Alberta is still "small" in population compared to Quebec and Ontario so that evolutionary adjustment of numbers of MPs will not change some feelings that Ontario and Quebec control the country

Asher is offline Asher
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http://www.saturdaynight.ca/feature...m?listing_id=64

quote:
The New Ontario: Corridor Of Power
By Andrew Nikiforuk


IN THE 1800s aboriginals called it the Wolf ’s Track, and you’d have been hard-pressed to find anyone on it. Today the Edmonton-Calgary corridor is one of the fastest-growing regions in the world and boasts a population of nearly 2.5 million souls, more than Manitoba and Saskatchewan combined. Every day 50,000 vehicles use the four-lane divided thoroughfare known as Highway 2. Once flanked by vast prairie expanses that on a clear day still offer scenic glimpses of the Rocky Mountains, the corridor now sports jarring colonies of constant residential development and classic nowhere architecture.

Dubbed the “Western Tiger” by the TD Bank Financial Group, the corridor connects Edmonton, a sprawling metropolis serving the oil sands, to Calgary, a sprawling metropolis answering the continent’s insatiable appetite for natural gas. In between lie more growing concerns such as Red Deer, an agriculture and oilpatch centre dominated by evangelical churches that serves as a trading area for nearly two million people. A land of new subdivisions, sleek SUVs and cellphone-armed engineers and dealmakers, the region’s commercial heart — try $105 billion in related investments — furiously outpaces southern Ontario’s. Its standard of living is actually closer to that of the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg, the wealthiest nation on earth.

It has also developed growing pains. Manure from factory farms around Red Deer threatens local groundwater as well as the sanity of down-winders. Subdivisions are sprawling so quickly over the prairie that oil and gas drillers collide daily with municipal planners and housing developers. So many new cottages have been planned for Sylvan Lake, a poor man’s Muskoka, that the water body won’t be able to handle its projected flotilla of 400 boats. The oilpatch now plans to drill more than 50,000 coal bed methane wells on prime corridor farmland; the region could theoretically end up supporting 12 times that number. In Calgary, concentric rings of monster-sized homes continue to creep toward the foothills so determinedly that the scenic drive to Banff may soon be obliterated. A recent proposal to drill sour-gas wells on the edge of the city immediately placed 250,000 citizens in an “emergency planning zone,” a controversial designation usually found around nuclear power plants.

According to Calgary’s smiling Mayor Dave Bronconnier, whom everyone calls Bronco, “there is no such thing as urban sprawl in Calgary.” The numbers, however, show a city with a vastly expanding waistline. Since 1970 the population has more than doubled. A road network of 2,800 kilometres has become a clogged maze of 12,000. In terms of square kilometres, Calgary now has the same size footprint as New York — but with only one-tenth of the people. “Calgary is a centrifugal force spinning out,” says Bev Sandalack, a local urban designer. In this unrestrained spin, farmland and mountain vistas are disappearing. “It’s unsustainable and unethical” to Sandalack, but in this place, with no immediate natural constraints — such as a great lake — to force greater population density, the end of suburbia is nowhere in sight.

The entire region is slowly discovering a Wallace Stegner truth: “Water is the true wealth in a dry land.” Receding glaciers mean Calgary may well experience severe late-summer water shortages by 2030. The Red Deer River,which runs through the middle of Alberta’s miraculous corridor, is fully allocated. The thirst of factory farms, oil wells and municipal growth has led to the depletion of groundwater in the corridor, forcing many communities to build multimillion-dollar water pipelines. Visitors from places familiar with the meaning of the word aridity can’t believe the state of growth and drying here. Henry Vaux Jr., a Berkeley economist, recently observed that groundwater depletion in Asia could leave 150 million Chinese high and dry in 20 years. “It blows my mind,” he says, “that we are creating the same circumstances here.” No matter. Growth never looks forward or back, even as it consumes promised lands.

Flubber is offline Flubber
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quote:
Originally posted by Last Conformist
25% of Canada's economy isn't anywhere near a global economic goliath. Try 250% of Canada's economy.


Agreed

China and the US are world economic goliaths.

Alberta is a very powerful but small economic engine

Flubber is offline Flubber
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
It's perhaps the fastest growing, most properous region in the world. And its growth is showing no signs of slowing, in fact the opposite is true...


I doubt Alberta is either the "fastest growing" or "most prosperous" regions in the world . ( I guess it would depend how you measure things??)

Don't get me wrong , Alberta is doing very very well but the fastest growing places are probably starting from a very low base level wgile the most prosperous include likely oil shiekdoms, European City-states and probably chunks of some US states (I'm thinking the opulence of Beverly Hills or Miami Beach here)

Max Webster is offline Max Webster
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If Alberta got such in such a bad way by fault of other provinces. Then what is with your original post where Alberta is flourishing and going to be the next Ontario. Gee Alberta should be still so poor and down and out. BooHoo I'm going shed a tear now I think for poor Alberta. All those people live in those lush houses around Calgary, oh my they must be starving. We should have a live8 for them.

Still like my spoiled whiny brat analogy. Its very fitting.



Seriously. Hey Asher if Alberta is doing very well. Than thats just wonderful by me. Sorry to hear to the Federal goverment srewed you around. I wasn't involved in the procedure personally so don't blame me. But you have my permission to go kick Ottawa in the nuts if makes you feel any better. But anyway I think every province should do well. I wish them all the best.


Go CANADA Go

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quote:
Originally posted by Max Webster
. Sorry to hear to the Federal goverment srewed you around. I wasn't involved in the procedure personally so don't blame me. But you have my permission to go kick Ottawa in the nuts if makes you feel any better. But anyway I think every province should do well. I wish them all the best.


Go CANADA Go


Well to this day, people blame the National Energy Program for stifling a growing industry. It certainly contributed to a huge crushing "bust" at a time when Alberta was gearing up for a "boom".

Personally I didn't work in the industry or live in Alberta then so I just see Albertas doing well now and am satisfied to forget about it. I just don't think the feds could get away with trying it again. (Alberta would go ballistic as would the US to the extent any of their supply were threatened)

Max Webster is offline Max Webster
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Flubber, you seem like an intelligent rational person with no bias towards Alberta. Just what did happen with our goverment and Alberta. What are this details of this NEP that Albertans loathe. And is it true that Quebec and Ontario screwed Alberta?

Personally I think Alberta should share in its wealth with the rest of Canada. I think every province should do this. But not to the detriment of the province sharing.

If Ottawa was unfair towards Alberta than I truly feel for Alberta.

Max Webster is offline Max Webster
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Sorry I didn't your see last post. You answered some of my questions. Frpm what I read of your post I do get the impression that Albertans do have a right to be angry. Maybe the goverment should waited till after the boom. And then asked the Albertans politely if we could have a little bit of your wealth to help other less fortunate Canadians.

Why do Albertans have such a pickle up their butt over Quebec. I know they are an annoying whiny bunch that just want to be different for the sake of being different. But their is got to be more to it.

Asher is offline Asher
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quote:
Originally posted by Max Webster
If Alberta got such in such a bad way by fault of other provinces. Then what is with your original post where Alberta is flourishing and going to be the next Ontario. Gee Alberta should be still so poor and down and out. BooHoo I'm going shed a tear now I think for poor Alberta. All those people live in those lush houses around Calgary, oh my they must be starving. We should have a live8 for them.

Still like my spoiled whiny brat analogy. Its very fitting.

Actually, you should look up the NEP and see how real this actually was. The Liberal government in the early 80s were gutting Alberta for all it was worth, crashed its economy, all for the benefit of the people out east...

It wasn't until the conservatives came into power that they got rid of the NEP and restored Alberta's economy.

Asher is offline Asher
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And it's whackos like this from out east who don't even understand the industry that were the cause of the problem. Posted April 2nd, 2005:

http://w-3productions.com/weblog/ar...ber_the_na.html
quote:
Remember the National Energy Program? It's Time Now For A New One.

Progressive Politics Editorial

The much maligned NEP was put into place by the Trudeau government during the oil crisis of the '70's. With oil prices rising astronomically (for the time) Canadians demanded action. The answer was the NEP and Canada began providing oil and gas to Canadians at lower prices following the idea that these resources belonged to all Canadians and we should all share in this public resource.

The oil corporations hated the NEP and when they got their political hacks, the Mulroney government elected, Brian did his duty and eliminated the NEP. Canada's oil prices were now no longer going to bring direct benefit to Canadians, but rather were set at the world oil price. This was all happening hand in hand with a rightwing shift towards the neo-liberal agenda of privatization, deregulation and globalization. The "market" was the answer to all our needs and this free market would somehow provide all of us with prosperity. This and the tooth fairy along with $1.00 will buy you a liter of gasoline today.

So as we watch consumers in places like Saudi Arabia pay $.25 for a gallon of gas - what the heck it's their oil under their sand - we're tied into this neo-con con job and paying $1.00 a liter.

We have to wonder when the Canadian working class is going to start to wake up to the fact that they've been following the wrong pipers for far too long. These sleazy politicians who set government policy do not work in the public interest and never have. They are bought and paid for by the huge corporations who plunder the resources of this planet in their endless lust for more and more and more. Their ability to dumb down the working class, who make up the majority of the population, is legendary. Through sophisticated means of media control they're able to keep us working against our own interests and in the interests of the rich and powerful.

While we dolts sit around arguing about whether a brain-dead Florida women wanted or didn't want to die, the corporations and their lackeys have more important things on their minds and that is looking for more and more ways to screw us dumb folks and make us think they're doing us a favour.

But reality does have a way in helping to remove the blinkers. The Great Depression produced an open-eyed new class conscious generation of workers that when they came back from WWII, demanded unions, healthcare, unemployment insurance, old age pensions and a greater part of the economic pie that their labours produced. The present generation is also going to have to smarten up. The rising cost of energy, that will have its repercussions throughout our economy and most certainly in the economic wellbeing of Canada's working class should start to open some eyes.

Now is the time now to call for a new NEP for Canada and Ralph Klein be damned. It's once again time to give very serious consideration to privatizing the resources that belong to all Canadians, including the working class and make those resources available to Canadians not at world prices, but at prices that reflect the fact that we own those resources.


The funniest part of all is this left-wing nut is saying Saudi Arabia pays a lot less for gas because it's all under their sand...most gas isn't refined in Saudi Arabia, and the reason their gas costs less is they don't have any tax on it...the left-wing governments in Canada keep adding more and more tax on the gas, increasing the cost.

Max Webster is offline Max Webster
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Energy_Program

Your right. Good ole mulroney kicked it out the door.

According to that link it says it was brought on by the energy crisis in the 70's. Ottawa wanted a reliable source of oil in their own country, Alberta has that oil. It also says that Albertans didn't like it because they were stripping Alberta of its natural resourse. Funny Flubber says the oils sands are going to triple their production in 2015. So seems to me that their is plenty left to go around. So the stripping part seems far fetched.
Now where can I find information about the effects of the NEP on the Albertan economy.

You people realize how much crap google brings up when I enter NEP or National Energy Program.

Gawd.. this is like being at work.

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quote:
The National Energy Program

The Queen with Mr. & Mrs. LougheedThe National Energy Program (NEP) was introduced on October 28, 1980 by the Honourable Marc Lalonde. The NEP sought to increase both Canadian control and Canadian ownership of the energy industry. It also sought to protect all Canadians from surging oil prices. The federal government would accomplish their goals through measures such as price controls and federal taxes on oil and gas production. These measures would increase federal government control in the oil and gas industry.

Many Albertans were upset over the NEP for several reasons. First, they perceived the NEP as an intrusion on their provincial rights since control of natural resources falls under provincial jurisdiction. Second, some Albertans felt that the NEP was passed to benefit Alberta's natural resourcescentral Canada, particularly Ottawa. Many argued that Alberta lost a tremendous amount of money due to the NEP. These figures differ from scholar to scholar and range from $50 to $100 billion dollars. Third, Albertans were angered by the NEP due to the fact that a significant number of oil companies left the province of Alberta, leaving many Albertans unemployed. Some Albertans showed their disapproval by sporting bumper stickers that stated "Let the eastern bastards freeze in the dark." Premier Peter Lougheed's planned actions against the federal government and central Canada included cutting oil production.

To this day, the National Energy Program is a sore spot with many Albertans. The NEP is often cited as an example of federal government discrimination, which increased feelings of western alienation and led to the creation of many western separatist groups. Premier Peter Lougheed will be forever remembered for his tremendous leadership during this period of Alberta's history.

Asher is offline Asher
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Nov 1999
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quote:
Originally posted by Max Webster
Your right. Good ole mulroney kicked it out the door.

According to that link it says it was brought on by the energy crisis in the 70's. Ottawa wanted a reliable source of oil in their own country, Alberta has that oil. It also says that Albertans didn't like it because they were stripping Alberta of its natural resourse. Funny Flubber says the oils sands are going to triple their production in 2015. So seems to me that their is plenty left to go around. So the stripping part seems far fetched.
Now where can I find information about the effects of the NEP on the Albertan economy.

You people realize how much crap google brings up when I enter NEP or National Energy Program.

Gawd.. this is like being at work.

There's way more to it than that -- the "stripping" part refers to control over it. The provinces own the natural resources under the ground, not the federal government. As such, the NEP is overreaching their boundaries.

They wanted to nationalize the industry -- it forced the American investors out (who made the VAST majority of the investors) in favour of Canadian companies, such as Petro-Canada. When the American companies started leaving, unemployment skyrocketed. When less people were employed, the whole economy began to tank -- the whole economy was based on energy during the early 80s. All of the jobs eventually connected back to energy jobs, and with those being eliminated the province went into a depression.

At the same time, it also forced oil to be sold WELL under market price in Canada.

Why was this done? Trudeau and the Liberal party thought oil cost too much, and since we have oil, why not just nationalize it and have Canadians working on it, for Canadians. What a brilliant idea for a modern economy, especially one founded on and based off foreign investment.

 
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