23-07-2005 18:23									#61
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG quote: apples vs. oranges... well, after that argument i can only agree with you

well damn, if that's all it took the 1st time...

	23-07-2005 19:41									#62
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quote: OK, you do have a point. I mean after all, it's Tom Cruise saying it and he's a Scientologist.

No, it's Tim Robbins' character who says it, and he's as mad as a hatter.

I thought you saw the film?

	23-07-2005 19:44									#63
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quote: I didn't buy Robbins' transformation to raving nutcase.

Robbins was a nutcase from the beginning of his sequence. The war and the death of all he loved unhinged him, and seeing the blood harvesting finished the job that was started before Cruise even got there.

quote: Cruise was able to keep him quiet and passive when the alien probe was searching his place & only a few feet away, yet a few minutes later he starts screaming about his "tunnel to the city" and how they won't get his blood?

It was a lot more than a few minutes. I would say there was at least a week, maybe more. When the aliens came down into the basement, there were no red vines. When Robbins realized what was happening, the red vines were everywhere... and growing.

	23-07-2005 19:47									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Pyrodrew Check out the scene where Cruise tells the guard to look at the tripod with the shield down because of the flock of birds around it. How many birds naturally clutter (trying to land?) around a large loud moving metal machine?

Ever see seagulls on a trash barge?

	23-07-2005 20:00									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Wiglaf Allowing a character to live has nothing to do with legitimizing his position. A mass murderer who eludes police in the end is not necessarily sanctioned by the director. On the other hand, If Robbie had been killed trying to get people on the evacuation boat, we would all know he died doing the right thing. Getting lost wanting to watch a battle is just idiotic, and the fact that you somehow believe this as a brave act further goes to show what a nut you are about this youth advocacy front. That you buy his miracle survival from a dramatic standpoint isn't encouraging either.

wth?!

Now you are even attacking my movie reviews because of my youth advocacy?

**** you.

	23-07-2005 20:05									#66
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT Ever see seagulls on a trash barge?

First, I didn't see any trash or blood on that tripod - much less for a whole flock. Also there was plenty of trash and blood on things that weren't loud moving machines (recall the Paul Revere statue)... give the seagulls an option between eating peacefully or not and see what happens.

	23-07-2005 20:26									#67
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT Robbins was a nutcase from the beginning of his sequence. The war and the death of all he loved unhinged him, and seeing the blood harvesting finished the job that was started before Cruise even got there.

He was not a screaming nutcase when they met him or during probe invasion. An abulence driver losing it at the site of blood harvesting?

quote: It was a lot more than a few minutes. I would say there was at least a week, maybe more.

Maybe a day or 2. Cruise and Robbins would have had much more facial hair if it was a week+.

quote: When the aliens came down into the basement, there were no red vines. When Robbins realized what was happening, the red vines were everywhere... and growing.

Those vines didn't take long to spread from what I saw.

	23-07-2005 21:34									#68
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT quote: OK, you do have a point. I mean after all, it's Tom Cruise saying it and he's a Scientologist. No, it's Tim Robbins' character who says it, and he's as mad as a hatter. I thought you saw the film?

Yes, I did, but you know scripts are often rewritten numerous times during the shooting of a movie. Producers, directors andf actors often have a role in the creation of the final draft. Prehaps the whole "buried a million years before" was Cruise's contribution.

	23-07-2005 22:27									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove What was so heroic about Robbie's actions? He had no weapons, he could have been no more than a hindrance to the troops. Cruise could not have gone charging of over the hill, he had his daughter to take care of. In fact he risked the daughter by lingering to try to talk some sense into Robbie. I don't see Cruise as a coward either. He uses his head to do his utmost to guard the safety of his children. He eventually risks his life first to go up into a machine to get his daughter and then by putting himself deeper into the machine to plant the grenade that puts it out of action.

Robbie was looking to help in any way he could. See, for instance, his helping people get on the ferry. Cruise didn't lift a finger to help them, even though he and his child were safely on the ferry. There was no cost for him to help people, but he chose not to.

Cruise was a coward because he murdered the Tim Robbins character even though it wasn't at all certain that the Tim Robbins character was going to lead to their capture. Then his little girl flips out, making the murder totally pointless.

	23-07-2005 22:31									#70
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quote: Now you are even attacking my movie reviews because of my youth advocacy?

I was attacking your movie review because it was ridiculous. Your youth obsession merely influenced your position.

	24-07-2005 04:24									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Pyrodrew He was not a screaming nutcase when they met him or during probe invasion. An abulence driver losing it at the site of blood harvesting?

Ambulance driver or not, he was a human being slowly losing it because he lost everybody he loved and his world, his support system: his civilization. He was slightly unhinged when Cruise first entered and became a complete nutcase while in the basement over the next couple of weeks as the aliens plans became readily apparent and he dwelt upon how utterly and finally this war was lost.

The planet Earth, not just people, but billions of years of evolutionary growth, all life as we know it, lost to the aliens - don't you think that would freak the **** out of you too?

quote: Maybe a day or 2. Cruise and Robbins would have had much more facial hair if it was a week+.

Possibly, but who knows what supplies were in the basement? Who knows if they snuck up in the house and got food/toiletries/etc?

Again, this isn't something we're told. Movie-goers assume that because the movie didn't show them going up in the house, then they didn't.

quote: Those vines didn't take long to spread from what I saw.

How long do you think it would take for them to spread over tens, hundreds of square miles, in the valley that was pristine (as far as alien plants are concerned) when Cruise first entered the basement?

The shot of the eerily quiet valley, red mist hanging over everything, no wind blowing, and the ground covered with red vines (and other alien plants for all we know) is the best indication that a fair amount of time had passed, a time much longer than a mere couple of days. Now if you want to calculate the growth rate of the alien vine just from the bit that we saw in the film to determine how much time it would take to cover the valley, go right ahead. We all eagerly await your results.

	24-07-2005 04:30									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Yes, I did, but you know scripts are often rewritten numerous times during the shooting of a movie. Producers, directors andf actors often have a role in the creation of the final draft. Prehaps the whole "buried a million years before" was Cruise's contribution.

Tom Cruise is in the business of Tom Cruise. He's not there to write lines for Tim Robbins. If Tom is going to make this into some sort of Scientology mission statement (as bizarre a notion as the one that states the movie is a Fascist masterpiece), he would've said the words, not Tim Robbins (who is not a Scientologist.)

Here's what Cruise and Spielberg had to say about that idea:

quote: NEW YORK — Well, at least now we know Steven Spielberg likes the Phoenix. But Tom Cruise probably never will, thanks to me. As you may have divined from the trailers, Spielberg’s War of the Worlds departs from all previous versions of the story by having the alien tripods emerge from underground, where they’ve lain dormant for eons, instead of arriving in spaceships. To me, that sounded like some aspects of Scientology lore. (Google "Xenu" and see for yourself.) So I wondered whether Cruise was behind the plot change. At a media press conference at Manhattan’s Essex Hotel last week, I asked him, "What resonance does that have for you as a Scientologist." "In what way?" he replied. "In that some of the tenets of Scientology deal with the past of aliens on this planet." Cruise bristled but never stopped smiling. "That’s not true," he said. "Like, huh? W-w-what? What paper are you from?" "The Boston Phoenix." "The Boston What?" He looked at Spielberg. "Is that a good paper?" Spielberg nodded. "I read it. It’s a good paper." Cruise then returned to my question. "It has no resonance whatsoever. There’s absolutely no relation to that whatsoever." Spielberg picked up the ball and said that the plot change had been his idea. "I didn’t want to do the old ‘death from above’ cliché that we’ve seen so often in science-fiction movies. I just thought that was more of an original way of introducing a threat from where we least expect it to come, an extraterrestrial threat coming almost from the inner reaches of earth." Cruise interjected, "If you are interested in Scientology, you should read Evolution of a Science, I don’t know if you’ve ever read that, or Fundamentals of Thought. That will give you a greater understanding of what Scientology is. There’s a book called What Is Scientology? Read that." Uh, thanks.

There's more at: http://www.portlandphoenix.com/movi...ts/04793537.asp

	24-07-2005 04:31									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Pyrodrew First, I didn't see any trash or blood on that tripod - much less for a whole flock. Also there was plenty of trash and blood on things that weren't loud moving machines (recall the Paul Revere statue)... give the seagulls an option between eating peacefully or not and see what happens.

Perhaps alien meat is a delicacy far and above anything the birds have ever tasted, one that was worth the chance of losing their life. Perhaps they were addicted?

(yeah, I'm really reaching with that one. )

	24-07-2005 04:40									#75
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quote: Cruise was a coward because he murdered the Tim Robbins character even though it wasn't at all certain that the Tim Robbins character was going to lead to their capture. Then his little girl flips out, making the murder totally pointless.

That's a damn good point, about what Dakota's scream implied about the murder of Robbins.

Though it could be argued that, not knowing the future and given the absolute life/death situation they were in, Cruise still made the correct decision in killing Robbins as he was then a menace to his and his childs' very lives. It's not as if Cruise hadn't had to do it before.

	24-07-2005 06:27									#76
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT Ambulance driver or not, he was a human being slowly losing it because he lost everybody he loved and his world, his support system: his civilization. He was slightly unhinged when Cruise first entered and became a complete nutcase while in the basement over the next couple of weeks as the aliens plans became readily apparent and he dwelt upon how utterly and finally this war was lost. The planet Earth, not just people, but billions of years of evolutionary growth, all life as we know it, lost to the aliens - don't you think that would freak the **** out of you too?

You must have been watching War of the Worlds3. Everything you said above wasn't true. The whole world and evolutionary growth of the world was never lost. The war was never lost by humans. He lost his wife and kids, but he could have had other family/friends elsewhere. The only thing the abulence driver saw were the blood vines outside his door. So no that would not freak me out to start screaming so the aliens could kill me, but thanks for the warning about you.

quote: Possibly, but who knows what supplies were in the basement? Who knows if they snuck up in the house and got food/toiletries/etc? Again, this isn't something we're told. Movie-goers assume that because the movie didn't show them going up in the house, then they didn't.

Who knows maybe they killed and ate aliens to survive? Who knows if Cruise discussed Scientology for months until Robbins finally went mad? There is nothing to even hint any of that happened.

quote: How long do you think it would take for them to spread over tens, hundreds of square miles, in the valley that was pristine (as far as alien plants are concerned) when Cruise first entered the basement? The shot of the eerily quiet valley, red mist hanging over everything, no wind blowing, and the ground covered with red vines (and other alien plants for all we know) is the best indication that a fair amount of time had passed, a time much longer than a mere couple of days. Now if you want to calculate the growth rate of the alien vine just from the bit that we saw in the film to determine how much time it would take to cover the valley, go right ahead.

Your own "who knows" argument destroys these paragraphs. Who knows how efficient the aliens are at spreading the blood vines? Again, this isn't something we're told. The movie goers didn't see what happened over night....

Putting the "who knows" argument aside, I never said I calculated the growth rate. But you seem to have calculated that the blood vines couldn't have happened overnight, we all eagerly await your mathematical equations for this.

I saw nothing surprising with the aliens spreading the blood vines over night. The aliens were "transporting themselves on lightning bolts", manipulating the weather and given all their other technological marvels you saw... you find an overnight terraforming hard to believe???


For the record, the movie goers are never shown what happens weeks after Cruise dropped Dakota off at her grandparents house. I would like to think that a few weeks later an alien virus accidently wiped them all out.

	24-07-2005 10:11									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Pyrodrew You must have been watching War of the Worlds3. Everything you said above wasn't true. The whole world and evolutionary growth of the world was never lost. The war was never lost by humans. He lost his wife and kids, but he could have had other family/friends elsewhere. The only thing the abulence driver saw were the blood vines outside his door. So no that would not freak me out to start screaming so the aliens could kill me, but thanks for the warning about you.

If you were sitting in that basement watching the earth get terriformed by aliens who walked around with impunity and you looked out your window to see a world devoid of human or earthly life, what would you think?

That would freak me the **** out, just like John said. Would I start screaming, no. Would I assume it was probably all over by that point? Yea. I'd try to cling to life as long as I could, pray, take comfort in survivors left around me, remember, and prepare for the end.

The picture painted at that point in the movie is entirely grim and hopeless.

	24-07-2005 14:14									#78
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quote: Originally posted by OzzyKP If you were sitting in that basement watching the earth get terriformed by aliens who walked around with impunity and you looked out your window to see a world devoid of human or earthly life, what would you think?

That the area outside my window within my vision might be devoid of human or earthly life. The world is much bigger than what's within my field of vision. In addition, I/Robbins (a mere abulence driver) was still there (I'm human or at least earthly life ), Cruise was there, a little annoying girl (who didn't exactly make Cruise's journey easier) even survived. Why couldn't someone else have survived?

It's not like Robbins had a great unique hiding place with a cloaking/invisibility device... it was just a mere shack/house with a basement & the aliens still couldn't find them, while Robbins was alive. To top it off one was (growing) insane. Stupid aliens.

quote: That would freak me the **** out, just like John said. Would I start screaming, no. Would I assume it was probably all over by that point? Yea. I'd try to cling to life as long as I could, pray, take comfort in survivors left around me, remember, and prepare for the end.

Remind me not to let you in when that happens.

quote: The picture painted at that point in the movie is entirely grim and hopeless.

I saw it as somewhat grim and suggesting Cruise's journey would become more difficult and dangerous. It also worked as a nice scene to surprise the audience. But I never saw it as hopeless.

Dakota wasn't freaked out by it as she ran right out into it by herself... this from a little girl who was screeching and scared of nearly everything.

	24-07-2005 17:50									#79
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT Tom Cruise is in the business of Tom Cruise. He's not there to write lines for Tim Robbins. If Tom is going to make this into some sort of Scientology mission statement (as bizarre a notion as the one that states the movie is a Fascist masterpiece), he would've said the words, not Tim Robbins (who is not a Scientologist.)

Wasn't it the female reporter who pointed out that the machines had been pre-planted?

quote: Here's what Cruise and Spielberg had to say about that idea: quote: NEW YORK — Well, at least now we know Steven Spielberg likes the Phoenix. But Tom Cruise probably never will, thanks to me. As you may have divined from the trailers, Spielberg’s War of the Worlds departs from all previous versions of the story by having the alien tripods emerge from underground, where they’ve lain dormant for eons, instead of arriving in spaceships. To me, that sounded like some aspects of Scientology lore. (Google "Xenu" and see for yourself.) So I wondered whether Cruise was behind the plot change. At a media press conference at Manhattan’s Essex Hotel last week, I asked him, "What resonance does that have for you as a Scientologist." "In what way?" he replied. "In that some of the tenets of Scientology deal with the past of aliens on this planet." Cruise bristled but never stopped smiling. "That’s not true," he said. "Like, huh? W-w-what? What paper are you from?" "The Boston Phoenix." "The Boston What?" He looked at Spielberg. "Is that a good paper?" Spielberg nodded. "I read it. It’s a good paper." Cruise then returned to my question. "It has no resonance whatsoever. There’s absolutely no relation to that whatsoever." Spielberg picked up the ball and said that the plot change had been his idea. "I didn’t want to do the old ‘death from above’ cliché that we’ve seen so often in science-fiction movies. I just thought that was more of an original way of introducing a threat from where we least expect it to come, an extraterrestrial threat coming almost from the inner reaches of earth." Cruise interjected, "If you are interested in Scientology, you should read Evolution of a Science, I don’t know if you’ve ever read that, or Fundamentals of Thought. That will give you a greater understanding of what Scientology is. There’s a book called What Is Scientology? Read that." Uh, thanks. There's more at: http://www.portlandphoenix.com/movi...ts/04793537.asp

I had no idea that Spielberg was an expert on Scientology.

	24-07-2005 18:17									#80
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He's not.

Did you not see the words "Cruise interjected"?

And no, it was Tim Robbins. The female reporter was there to show the audience that (a) this was a worldwide phenomenon and (b) how the aliens themselves made it into the machines. She said nothing about how the machines themselves made it into the ground.