22-07-2005 02:43									#1
	War of the Worlds: Spielberg Mutilates His Own Masterpiece (SPOILERS included) Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

So you set out to take a popcorn, disaster, summer, independence-day-like movie and turn it into a dark, terrifying thriller

And then you decide to not do some thing that were only logical with what you were building for... hours of film, only to keep with the "no kid character is ever harmed in a spielberg movie" rule...

spoiler(highlight to read): 1) the tim robbins character is not killed at the right time. tension is built up while the aliens searching for the humans but nothing happens except cruise and robbins holding a gun together. after the aliens leave cruise makes sure his daughter doesnt get traumatized by witnessing murder and does the job behind a closed door.... 2) the son survives. enough said....

beyond that, it's still the best disaster movie by far (not a hard task anyway) and easily one of the best of the year

	22-07-2005 02:54									#2
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You're wrong.

See, the moral crisis in the movie is not whether Cruise's son lives, but the fact that Cruise is now a murderer, a decision he made coldly, cooly, and rationally. A lesser director would've taken the simple route, made it easier for the audience to say "oh, that poor man", but Spielberg didn't go down that road. The issue isn't whether Robbie lives, but whether Cruise is morally tainted by the end of the film.

Today's audiences, frankly, are not sophisticated enough to grasp this - they're looking to have everything spelled out for them, which is why this movie causes so much frustration.

Also, not that it matters, but in the original book the protagonist, his wife, and his son are all split up because of the invasion, but all make it back together in the end. So blame HG Wells for the "crappy ending" (others' words, not mine or yours), not Spielberg.

	22-07-2005 02:58									#3
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quote: And then you decide to not do some thing that were only logical with what you were building for... hours of film, only to keep with the "no kid character is ever harmed in a spielberg movie" rule...

You must've missed Schindlers List and Empire of the Sun.

	22-07-2005 02:59									#4
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And Jaws.

	22-07-2005 03:01									#5
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Yeah yeah yeah...

Just let him get on with Indy 4, doing what he does best.

	22-07-2005 03:01									#6
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And AI, considering the future-robots "killed" Haley Joel Osmont just so they could experience a (vicarious) taste of what it meant to be human. That was not a kid friendly movie by any means!

	22-07-2005 03:02									#7
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nm...

	22-07-2005 03:02									#8
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In the orginal book, there is no son.

	22-07-2005 03:03									#9
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Ouch.

	22-07-2005 03:05									#10
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT the fact that Cruise is now a murderer, a decision he made coldly, cooly, and rationally.

still, without showing the actual act of killing (as it was done in the mob-vs-car scene) it seems as if nothing happened. cruise is not placed any blame for the murder

quote: So blame HG Wells for the "crappy ending" (others' words, not mine or yours), not Spielberg.

i would have expected from spielberg to have advanced as a story-teller and dared to do a different ending for a change

	22-07-2005 03:05									#11
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT And AI, considering the future-robots "killed" Haley Joel Osmont just so they could experience a (vicarious) taste of what it meant to be human.

I thought he chose to go to "sleep", in order to keep the perfect mother-son moment forever?

	22-07-2005 03:06									#12
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Yeah, you're right. I read that "fact" in an IMDB post and, even though I read the book, can't seem to get it out of my head.

Do we have an "old man" smilie?

Edit: reply to IW.

	22-07-2005 03:07									#13
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well i've never heard of Empire of the Sun, never seen Jaws, dont remember any critical kid character in Schindlers List or what you say about AI

	22-07-2005 03:10									#14
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I have just thought.. Why didn't they need to capture humans? Did they feed? We do not see or hear anything about human farm, handling machines or tentaclas/claws on the machines.

	22-07-2005 03:10									#15
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There's the girl in the red jacket in Schindlers List (critical enough so that her jacket was the only bit of color in the film until the end), one of the shark victims in Jaws is a 10 year-old boy, and Empire is about a child who survives a Japanese concentration camp (from the novel by J.G. Ballard).

	22-07-2005 03:13									#16
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT There's the girl in the red jacket in Schindlers List (critical enough so that her jacket was the only bit of color in the film until the end), one of the shark victims in Jaws is a 10 year-old boy, and Empire is about a child who survives a Japanese concentration camp (from the novel by J.G. Ballard).

the first two doesnt sound as main characters and the third one survives!

	22-07-2005 03:16									#17
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Your quote:

quote: "no kid character is ever harmed in a spielberg movie" rule...

Nothing about death, nothing about the kid character being major, just "no kid character is ever harmed..." You made a blanket assertion and I countered it with facts. Simple, eh?

	22-07-2005 03:20									#18
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it's obvious i meant "no lead kid character"

	22-07-2005 03:24									#19
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OMFG MarkG OWNED!!!!!1!!!1

	22-07-2005 03:33									#20
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I paid $18, so it's OK. Just don't think one of you freeloaders can get away with it.

	22-07-2005 03:36									#21
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG still, without showing the actual act of killing (as it was done in the mob-vs-car scene) it seems as if nothing happened. cruise is not placed any blame for the murder

Heck no it doesn't!

You don't have to show something up close in all its gory details to really understand and grasp it all. Both those scenes were very hard to watch, for me at least. There was never any illusions about what was happening in either. I knew it, the daughter knew it, and the rest of the audience knew it. It was quite blunt and in your face.

A geyser of blood isn't needed to get this very real, brutal point across.

	22-07-2005 03:42									#22
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quote: i would have expected from spielberg to have advanced as a story-teller and dared to do a different ending for a change

I agree that an ending that was satisfying to audiences living just 20-odd years after the germ theory of disease was announced doesn't make much sense to more "sophisticated" audiences, but what scenario can you derive to explain the fact that the machines stopped working all of a sudden?

In the context of the film perhaps it would've been best if no explanation was given, but as a storytelling technique that would've seriously sucked.

	22-07-2005 03:44									#23
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Btw, I've seen this film four times already and will likely go again this weekend.

	22-07-2005 03:44									#24
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Clearly the virus thing was unreasonable and reaching. The movie clearly should have ended with all of humanity exterminated and the alien masters taking over.


That would have been a great, uplifting movie. But perhaps the only believeable thing the critics would accept.

	22-07-2005 03:45									#25
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT Btw, I've seen this film four times already and will likely go again this weekend.

I think you and I are the only ones who think the movie was well done.

	22-07-2005 03:50									#26
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quote: Originally posted by OzzyKP You don't have to show something up close in all its gory details to really understand and grasp it all. Both those scenes were very hard to watch, for me at least. There was never any illusions about what was happening in either. I knew it, the daughter knew it, and the rest of the audience knew it. It was quite blunt and in your face. A geyser of blood isn't needed to get this very real, brutal point across.

it's one thing showing someone shooting someone else, even if that man is not shown, and another showing a closed door with no understandable sounds.

if spielberg wanted to cast any blame on cruise for the killing he would have to show a bit more than a closed door....

	22-07-2005 03:53									#27
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT what scenario can you derive to explain the fact that the machines stopped working all of a sudden?

i wasnt talking about the explanation of how the machines stopped, i was talking about the surviving son

i dont mind the "logical" gaps of a science FICTION movie...

	22-07-2005 03:55									#28
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG it's one thing showing someone shooting someone else, even if that man is not shown, and another showing a closed door with no understandable sounds. if spielberg wanted to cast any blame on cruise for the killing he would have to show a bit more than a closed door....

Next time someone makes a comment about "stoopid muricans who need everything spelled out for them", I'm just gonna link to this post, OK?

	22-07-2005 03:56									#29
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quote: Originally posted by MarkG i wasnt talking about the explanation of how the machines stopped, i was talking about the surviving son i dont mind the "logical" gaps of a science FICTION movie...

**** happens. It was wartime. Surprisingly, not everyone dies, not even on the battlefield.

	22-07-2005 04:05									#30
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT Next time someone makes a comment about "stoopid muricans who need everything spelled out for them", I'm just gonna link to this post, OK?

it's not about understanding what goes on, it's about making a point. with the closed door spielberg treats us like cruise did with his daughter: dont see what's happening so that you dont get traumatized...

the closed door just says that something bad happened, noone is certain to be blamed....