24-07-2005 19:17									#211
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski Sorry Bk Just lightening the mood in this room at ur expense Oh by the way i didnt know lack of a brain was a diasbility i thought it just meant well pretty much well dead

Hasn't hurt Dubya any.

	25-07-2005 00:02									#212
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No it hasnt hurt him being brain dead is his excuse for his brain damaged decisions.

	25-07-2005 07:07									#213
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Because they always have been. Show me one that wasn't.

I don't think it's possible for there to be an organization for whites that you wouldn't accuse of being racist.

	25-07-2005 12:27									#214
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quote: Originally posted by faded glory If I want to live with my own, if I don't find others not of my kind attractive, if I feel race mixing with them is a wrong, even if I perhaps actively dislike them, it is my right to do so.

Were you drunk or high when you made this post?

To believe that interracial sex is wrong, IS racist!! And one certainly does not have to pander to racism while denying its racism, in order to enjoy their right to free association.

	25-07-2005 12:33									#215
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia I don't think it's possible for there to be an organization for whites that you wouldn't accuse of being racist.

An organization that derives a collective identity from skin color, from race, is inherently racist. To separate an "us" and "them" on race criteria is the very definition of racism.

And this is true for every skin colour, not only the whites.

(some racial minorities could have a slightly better claim than whites, in that they could pretend to derive their collective identity from a "common history of exploitation" or something like that, but if membership depends clearly on race, it's racist as well)

	25-07-2005 12:36									#216
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can it really be racist if they are trying to establish equal rights?

I fail to see how the NAACP is racist. All they want is for black men (and women) to be treated as equals. This still hasn't happened yet. We are close, but not quite there yet.

	25-07-2005 12:42									#217
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quote: Originally posted by Dis can it really be racist if they are trying to establish equal rights? I fail to see how the NAACP is racist. All they want is for black men (and women) to be treated as equals. This still hasn't happened yet. We are close, but not quite there yet.

Is the NAACP open to whites, and does it denounce all forms of race-based discrimination (and not exclusively anti-black ones)?

If yes, then it's not a racist organization. If it's an exclusive club for blacks, then it would have an inherent racist element in it.

Edit: I just looked at the mission statement and the membership rules of the NAACP. They fight against all racist discriminations. They aren't an exclusive club based on race (you don't even mention your race in the registration form). It is clearly not racist.

	25-07-2005 12:43									#218
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I think he was talking about the individuals right. Not too sure though, but I think it was more about the individuals right vs. racism.

EDIT: Friggin x-post.

	26-07-2005 01:34									#219
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the NAACP board of directors, members in Washington DC

District of Columbia Top

Bond, Julian
Washington, DC
Hayden-Watkins, Dorothy, Ph.D
Washington, DC
Lucy, William
Washington, DC
Patterson, Myisha(Youth)
Washington, DC
Saperstein, Rabbi David N.
Washington, DC
Shearin, Sr., Rev. Morris L.
Washington, DC
Womack, Richard G.
Washington, DC



Now i dont know about Mr. Womack, but if Rabbi Saperstein, the head of the the Social Action Center of the Reform Jewish movement, is NOT Jewish, well then, somebody over there in the Reform movement has a LOT of splainin' to do

	26-07-2005 01:44									#220
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Jews

	26-07-2005 01:57									#221
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Jews

Pardon me, its the Religious Action Center. To Reform Jews, theres no real distinction between religious action and social action. Heres a link:

http://rac.org/

	26-07-2005 03:23									#222
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Reform Jews

	26-07-2005 03:49									#223
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor If yes, then it's not a racist organization. If it's an exclusive club for blacks, then it would have an inherent racist element in it.

Whites are the dominant group. They don't need organizations.

	26-07-2005 03:55									#224
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Whites are the dominant group. They don't need organizations.

Oh, it's just fine to be a racist as long as you are not a member of the dominant group - well, if that is a fact, how come that people are pissed off when the minority groups make their "one colour" parties in countries as SA and Zimbabwe ?

	26-07-2005 04:01									#225
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quote: Originally posted by BlackCat Oh, it's just fine to be a racist as long as you are not a member of the dominant group - well, if that is a fact, how come that people are pissed off when the minority groups make their "one colour" parties in countries as SA and Zimbabwe ?

A) It's not racism if you form a group to gain equal rights. It's racism when you are the dominant group and you form an exclusive group keeping out minorities.

B) People get pissed off because they want to hold on to power.

	26-07-2005 04:08									#226
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious A) It's not racism if you form a group to gain equal rights. It's racism when you are the dominant group and you form an exclusive group keeping out minorities. B) People get pissed off because they want to hold on to power.

Bingo.

	26-07-2005 04:08									#227
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious A) It's not racism if you form a group to gain equal rights. It's racism when you are the dominant group and you form an exclusive group keeping out minorities.

I don't mind- actually, I approve it when when people join together to fight for equal rights, but when it is declared a one race/color/religoin only, I don't like it - actually, I think it should be fought against. I don't like racism despite what colur that it tries to make better than another.

quote: B) People get pissed off because they want to hold on to power.

Yeah, that is the history of humanity - though, I wouldn't join a organisation that preferred on kind over anohter.

	26-07-2005 04:12									#228
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quote: Originally posted by BlackCat Yeah, that is the history of humanity - though, I wouldn't join a organisation that preferred on kind over anohter.

Me neither, but then I'm not a minority. I think the point is to form a unity. Some people think that you need to stick together with those who you can identify with for a struggle, most don't. Either way I don't think that's racism.

	26-07-2005 04:13									#229
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quote: Originally posted by Frankychan Bingo.

Dude, you're supporting Kidicious. You automatically lose.

	26-07-2005 04:32									#230
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Dude, you're supporting Kidicious. You automatically lose.

He's making more sense than you, dude.

	26-07-2005 04:33									#231
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Me neither, but then I'm not a minority. I think the point is to form a unity. Some people think that you need to stick together with those who you can identify with for a struggle, most don't. Either way I don't think that's racism.

Yeah, you make a unity against all others based on your own colour/religion/political state/you name it - is that really the way to become an ordinary citicen ? That is one where people doesn't care about how you look/act ? No, thet is just making you more alieanted to common society; people get scared and fronitiers drawn up.

I'm neither a part of a minority, but I really don't think that those not memeber of my majority, will gain anything if they forms a unity where my kind isn't allowed.

If they made such an organisation, why should I then not be allowed to make organisations wich opposed those ?

	26-07-2005 04:35									#232
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quote: Originally posted by Frankychan He's making more sense than you, dude.

Nah, Kiddy makes sensible statements, but they don't hold - thats why you both loose ,

	26-07-2005 10:10									#233
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ok i dunno if i can support the all white group. i lke them and all but aint all white oh hell what to do oh gee guess i need to belt out of the white thread

	26-07-2005 11:04									#234
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quote: Originally posted by BlackCat Yeah, you make a unity against all others based on your own colour/religion/political state/you name it - is that really the way to become an ordinary citicen ? That is one where people doesn't care about how you look/act ? No, thet is just making you more alieanted to common society; people get scared and fronitiers drawn up.

The fact is that people do care what you look like. That's why minorities need to stick together to help themselves. They can't depend on others.

quote: I'm neither a part of a minority, but I really don't think that those not memeber of my majority, will gain anything if they forms a unity where my kind isn't allowed.

Your kind generally doesn't want to be a part of it. They gain what they earn for themselves by working together. They don't depend on outsiders.

quote: If they made such an organisation, why should I then not be allowed to make organisations wich opposed those ?

Why would you want to oppose them working together for mutual benefit?

	26-07-2005 11:23									#235
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"your Kind"?

	26-07-2005 11:54									#236
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski "your Kind"?

Well, I consider myself as a part of the human kind - don't know what Kiddy considers himself as part of.

	26-07-2005 13:19									#237
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I'm not so sure I'm part of the human kind. Other humans are vastly different from me.

	26-07-2005 17:41									#238
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quote: Originally posted by BlackCat Oh, it's just fine to be a racist as long as you are not a member of the dominant group - well, if that is a fact, how come that people are pissed off when the minority groups make their "one colour" parties in countries as SA and Zimbabwe ?

This got me thinking on that. I could see justification for a white party in Zimbabwe, maybe, where whites are a minority AND are persecuted. Though I think that would be unwise, politically. A minority advocacy party really only works in a polity where there are numerous minorities - otherwise calling yourself out as a seperate group is self defeating. South Africa would be a better possibility - but whites arent really persecuted in RSA. Theyve got some affirmative action in some parts of govt, but they still are generally affluent, and hold leading roles in the private sector, and still are part of the public sector. Which is probably why all but the extremists have avoided white parties - even the old pro-Apartheid National Party has reinvented itself as a multiracial party, appealing to mixed race South Africans especially.

	26-07-2005 18:28									#239
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quote: Originally posted by BlackCat Well, I consider myself as a part of the human kind - don't know what Kiddy considers himself as part of.

You're the one who said "my kind," and please don't call me Kiddy. Kid is fine.

	26-07-2005 20:01									#240
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quote: Originally posted by BlackCat Yeah, you make a unity against all others based on your own colour/religion/political state/you name it - is that really the way to become an ordinary citicen ?

Using U.S. history as an example, since Black people were oppressed for their "race," it made sense for them to try and overcome that oppression as a race. Sympathetic whites could aid that struggle, but freedom is a struggle that ultimately must be made by those who aren't free. We can't make the struggle for them. If the unfree feel they need seperate organizations in order to develop their movement, it's not our place to stand in their way. The opressed need a "safe" place to develop away from the oppressor.

There is a logical reason for this. The oppressed have been psychologically beaten down, trained to defer to their "betters." At the same time, their "betters" have been trained to expect others to catter to or defer to them. This can be especially disruptive in a freedom movement, as the behavior is learned and and frequently unconciously acted out. It took me a while, for example, to learn to shut up when a woman was trying speak.

Let's invent an example. Suppose you and your brothers and sisters were physically abused by a step parent, who never hurt his/her own children (including any half-brothers or siusters). When you were finally emancipated (through reaching the age of majority, running away, the state interceding, etc.) and you decided you wanted nothing to do with the children of that hated parent, would that be immoral? Maybe one of them even tried to help you, sneaking you food, taking the blame for something that would get you punished, etc. But when you see them, all you can think about is how you were beaten and they weren't. Is it really wrong not to want to associate with your step and half siblings?

Another example. Suppose someone killed your mother. Would you want to be friends with the murderer's family?

Forcing the oppressed to associate with their oppressors isn't conducive to freedom.